Help Rotella 15w-40 oil used in 03 jetta tdi

oldschoolboy

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2003 Jetta TDI 5-Speed
The dealer changed the oil before I picked up the car. It appears that he used rotella 15w-40 oil!!! I have driven the car 200 miles before I noticed. How much damage has been done and should I drain it immediately and change the oil and filter?:eek:
 

Honeydew

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Don't worry about damage- Scott Krout, a mechanic who used to be on this forum ran it in his ALH TDI for ~200K miles and had no issues. Changing it out for the specified oil would be a good idea though.
 

ymz

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He could have used a worse oil... Change it to Rotella 5W-40 (or Mobil TDT) as soon as you have a chance, but don't go get a speeding ticket in your hurry... People have used this oil for long stretches of time, although I wouldn't want it in my cars...

Yuri

(PS: I would, however, do my best to get the oil that's in the oil cooler out of there as well, so try a topside oil change with a vacuum device such as a Pela 6000 or equivalent... http://pics2.tdiclub.com/video/cincitdi/oilextraction.html
 

DonL

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In my expert opinion (I am a certified public accountant, which makes me an expert*), the oil will not hurt the engine. What I would be concerned about it oil in the hot turbo when you shut down after hard running. Synthetic has a much higher flash point so it is less likely to coke in the turbo. Other than that, the 15w-40 is a fine oil. Far better than the 15w-40 of 20 years ago.

What excuse did the dealership give?

*expert on income taxes, that is.
 

riverwest auto

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looking for new project
jason, i know your just as cold in madison as i am here in milwaukee..... 15w-40 is kinda thick in the frozen tundra. i vote change it when you see frost out side back to lighter 5w40!
 

ymz

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Your local WalMart should have some Shell Rotella T6... fine oil and not too expensive... should be good for at least 10,000 miles (although we'd feel better if you also got rid of the oil hiding in the oil cooler during your oil change...) Filters: cheapest are on line (many vendors around here... www.metalmanparts.com www.boraparts.com www.idparts.com etc.) although if you just want the one, Napa used to carry Wix filters that are acceptable...

All the best,

Yuri
 

Corsair

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2002 Jetta GLS TDI 5M
ymz and DonL x2 (posts 3 & 4)
It's not that your engine parts will be damaged by presence of that 15W-40. You could safely drive to California if you wanted to. Concern is that (non-synth) oil has significantly less resistance to the coking that can happen when the engine is shut off with a hot turbo. Some replies above have indicated change it soon to get the synthetic oil back in there. Other replies have said no problem, go 3K. My vote is to change it soon, get synthetic oil back in there, but it's not a panic. And while you have the 15W-40 in there, good if you can idle the engine for 30 sec to a minute before shutting down, to allow the turbo to cool a bit.
 

thesearcherman

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Richmond,Va.
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why?

The dealer changed the oil before I pi
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[/HTML]cked up the car. It appears that he used rotella 15w-40 oil!!! I have driven the car 200 miles before I noticed. How much damage has been done and should I drain it immediately and change the oil and filter?:eek:
If the "DEALER" put the wrong oil in, why don't you take it back and make them fix their mistake?
 

cz75fan

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Location
Springfield, MO
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1999 Beetle, yellow as hell!!!!
Ok I'm sure I'll get flamed like crazy, but I'll come out of the closet. 15w-40 Rotella is what I use in my 99 Beetle. You may ask why? I use my Bug for work and all expenses come directly out of my pocket. Oil and fuel isn't getting any cheaper and unfortunately increases in wages are not forth coming. I was changing oil every month and a half. When I hit about 300,000 miles I changed over. Will it hurt the engine? Maybe, but Ive got 453,000 on my Bug now and it's still on the original block, head, and turbo. Not to mention I know the oil doesn't have anything to do with it, but also the clutch and trannie. I drive the little car 350 miles , 5 days a week. It still runs pretty good and has really been almost stone ax reliable. I'd say if you put miles on a vehicle like an ordinary person probably wouldn't be a bad idea to stay with the synthetic. Shorten this oil change cycle a bit then change back. Just my 2 cents worth, YMMV and all that other stuff!
 

jettawreck

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Northern Minnesota-55744
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Ok I'm sure I'll get flamed like crazy, but I'll come out of the closet. 15w-40 Rotella is what I use in my 99 Beetle. You may ask why? I use my Bug for work and all expenses come directly out of my pocket. Oil and fuel isn't getting any cheaper and unfortunately increases in wages are not forth coming. I was changing oil every month and a half. When I hit about 300,000 miles I changed over. Will it hurt the engine? Maybe, but Ive got 453,000 on my Bug now and it's still on the original block, head, and turbo. Not to mention I know the oil doesn't have anything to do with it, but also the clutch and trannie. I drive the little car 350 miles , 5 days a week. It still runs pretty good and has really been almost stone ax reliable. I'd say if you put miles on a vehicle like an ordinary person probably wouldn't be a bad idea to stay with the synthetic. Shorten this oil change cycle a bit then change back. Just my 2 cents worth, YMMV and all that other stuff!

No flame, just some reasons to continue to care for that high mile NB.;)
The alternate choice in oil is your choice, of course, and Rotella 15w-40 is a great non-synthetic oil. But, its not the oil spec'ed for your engine design, as you know. Non-synthetic oils just don't perform at the temps that are possible in the turbo and piston ring areas as well as the piston cooling oil sprays. I think you would save more $$ (which you indicate is the reason for the switch) by running Mobil 1 TDT 5w-40 and 15/20K change intervals, which many, many guys have shown by their used oil analysis to still hold up very well. Changing less expensive oil (and filter?)more often doesn't add up. I've been getting M1 for 5.79/qt with a $12 rebate on 5 qts. Two rebates per household, so 10 qts at a time and they have run this promo twice a year. That nets out to $3.49/qt. Fewer changes (although I still change at 10K interval) fewer filters, less work for me on the two TDIs. So, even if you paid about $2/qt for Rotella, it would be very minimal difference, if any, including filter costs.
I don't think what you're doing is all that big of an issue, just don't see much savings consider that you're getting/using a lesser product.
Nice report on the NB! Getting very close to the big 500K!!
 

bluesmoker

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Corsair

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ditto and no flame. I stand by my recommendation and reasons for synthetic above. That said, also acknowledge my father has a fairly old Dodge Cummins turbo diesel, in which he has run Rotella 15W-40 for over a decade and original turbo is fine. But then again... he religiously idles for several minutes before each shutdown.
 

JettaTDIBlack

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Brandon, FL
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2002 Jetta TDI Automatic Sedan
No flame, just some reasons to continue to care for that high mile NB.;)
The alternate choice in oil is your choice, of course, and Rotella 15w-40 is a great non-synthetic oil. But, its not the oil spec'ed for your engine design, as you know. Non-synthetic oils just don't perform at the temps that are possible in the turbo and piston ring areas as well as the piston cooling oil sprays. I think you would save more $$ (which you indicate is the reason for the switch) by running Mobil 1 TDT 5w-40 and 15/20K change intervals, which many, many guys have shown by their used oil analysis to still hold up very well. Changing less expensive oil (and filter?)more often doesn't add up. I've been getting M1 for 5.79/qt with a $12 rebate on 5 qts. Two rebates per household, so 10 qts at a time and they have run this promo twice a year. That nets out to $3.49/qt. Fewer changes (although I still change at 10K interval) fewer filters, less work for me on the two TDIs. So, even if you paid about $2/qt for Rotella, it would be very minimal difference, if any, including filter costs.
I don't think what you're doing is all that big of an issue, just don't see much savings consider that you're getting/using a lesser product.
Nice report on the NB! Getting very close to the big 500K!!

Where are you finding M1TDT in qts? I can only find them in 4qt jugs here.
 

jettawreck

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Maybe Mobil stopped selling quarts in the 7.5 years since jettawreck posted.
The local Fleet store always had M1 TDT in qts but I haven't looked for it in a long time since I switched to the DelVac 1 ESP 5w-40. The Fleet store sells that now for $25/gal (rarely they have a sale for $20/gal) and I stock up when Mobil/Exxon has the $12/gal rebate. DelVac for $13/gal is a good deal ($8/gal is a great deal!).
I frequent the place fairly regular. I will try to remember to look and see if they still have TDT in qts.
 

jettawreck

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Northern Minnesota-55744
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The ESP meets specs for the ALH engine?
Like M1 TDT (and RotellaT6 for that matter), it doesn't list as approved for VW specs, but it's a higher quality commercial version of M1. It's a 5w-40 "advanced" full synthetic API CK-4 rated oil that many have used and has had superb UOA results that I researched before switching over.
Works great in the Honda V4 (ST1300) motorcycle too, and it's not the correct spec for that either.
 

Genesis

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Sevier County TN
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'03 Jetta Wagon
Interesting... I have a lot of time on the T6 with excellent results, but this would be another arrow in the quiver when shopping for oil for the Jetta....
 

jettawreck

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Northern Minnesota-55744
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Interesting... I have a lot of time on the T6 with excellent results, but this would be another arrow in the quiver when shopping for oil for the Jetta....

Yep, and I had nothing but good results with Rotella T6 also, but when I can get the DelVac for quite a bit less at my favorite store I'm good with that. Plus, it was at the top of the list per Drivebywire and it had superb UOA results.
 

CleverUserName

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Yep, and I had nothing but good results with Rotella T6 also, but when I can get the DelVac for quite a bit less at my favorite store I'm good with that. Plus, it was at the top of the list per Drivebywire and it had superb UOA results.
The new Delvac isn't isn't the same as the old CJ-4 stuff. There not comparable to each other.
 

jettawreck

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The new Delvac isn't isn't the same as the old CJ-4 stuff. There not comparable to each other.

That's a broad vague statement. In what ways have they changed it and do you have references to show that, or is it the same as when they "changed" Rotella T6 and many claimed it was no longer "as good" and not comparable to the original version(s).
 

CleverUserName

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That's a broad vague statement. In what ways have they changed it and do you have references to show that, or is it the same as when they "changed" Rotella T6 and many claimed it was no longer "as good" and not comparable to the original version(s).
Look at the specs. CJ-4 Delvac ESP is clearly different than the new CK-4/SN version. Different viscosity, cheaper base oils, Reduced anti-wear additives, etc...

Mobil used expensive ingredients in the old Delvac, primarily PAO, alkylated naphthalenes and Esters. That’s what gave it it’s impressive properties like extremely low pour point, flash point and volatility. Those ingredients also gave it a high natural viscosity index and made shear-stable as there weren’t any polymers necessary in the recipe.

Old CJ-4 specs: https://www.mooreballiewoil.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/mobil_delvac_1_esp_5w_40_pds.pdf

New Delvac ESP CK-4/SN specs: https://www.mobil.com/Xomfl/Core/Ha...icle-Lube/pds/GLXXMobil-Delvac-1-ESP-5W40?p=1

New Delvac ESP doesn’t meet Ford minimum standards due to reduced ZDDP and it not approved for use in the powerstroke Engines. I wouldn’t use it in any older diesel that has a flat tappet camshaft.
 

maxmoo

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Look at the specs. CJ-4 Delvac ESP is clearly different than the new CK-4/SN version. Different viscosity, cheaper base oils, Reduced anti-wear additives, etc...

Mobil used expensive ingredients in the old Delvac, primarily PAO, alkylated naphthalenes and Esters. That’s what gave it it’s impressive properties like extremely low pour point, flash point and volatility. Those ingredients also gave it a high natural viscosity index and made shear-stable as there weren’t any polymers necessary in the recipe.

Old CJ-4 specs: https://www.mooreballiewoil.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/mobil_delvac_1_esp_5w_40_pds.pdf

New Delvac ESP CK-4/SN specs: https://www.mobil.com/Xomfl/Core/Ha...icle-Lube/pds/GLXXMobil-Delvac-1-ESP-5W40?p=1

New Delvac ESP doesn’t meet Ford minimum standards due to reduced ZDDP and it not approved for use in the powerstroke Engines. I wouldn’t use it in any older diesel that has a flat tappet camshaft.

You seem to be up on this topic.....what's your take on using shell rotellaT6 5w40 in alh's and bew's?
 

CleverUserName

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You seem to be up on this topic.....what's your take on using shell rotellaT6 5w40 in alh's and bew's?
I wouldn’t use any CK-4 Diesel engine oil that doesn’t meet Ford WSS-M2C171-F1 in an TDI equipped with a Flat tappet camshaft.

In other words, no. I wouldn’t use the new T6 or Delvac ESP in an ALH or BEW.

T6 is cheap and readily available. It’s historically had high volatility so I wouldn’t use it in anything that has emissions controls.
 
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