Catastrophic high pressure fuel pump failure

Q8Dhimmi

New member
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Location
Texas
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI, 2009 Touareg TDI
My 2009 Touareg 2 TDI's fuel pump failed at 146k miles and won't start. The dealer shop is telling me it's past the extended 120k warranty and they want $10k USD to replace the entire fuel system "because of the metal shards in the system." If it would start its book value is only $7-9k and I still owe the credit union $17k on it. What should I do?
 

M. Tummi

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Location
Roselle, IL
TDI
2015 GSW SE DSG
My 2009 Touareg 2 TDI's fuel pump failed at 146k miles and won't start. The dealer shop is telling me it's past the extended 120k warranty and they want $10k USD to replace the entire fuel system "because of the metal shards in the system." If it would start its book value is only $7-9k and I still owe the credit union $17k on it. What should I do?
Argue to Volkswagen of America. Try to get them to cover it under the warranty. Talks about the recent VW scandal and high pressure fuel pump failure rates are sure to get at least some attention. I would make a case for never buying another VW again if they do not at least step in to cover some of the costs.

Not that I believe in the entitlement attitude, but it might get results if they take you seriously.

Also, don't be stopped at the first person you talk to on the phone. Ask to speak to a manager or have the case elevated. Because the first person you talk to is going to tell you there's nothing that they can do, and that elevating the case will do you no good. This is a lie to get you to go away. Be persistent.
 

NoobyT

Veteran Member
Joined
May 29, 2013
Location
N/A
TDI
N/A
Odd, I was only thinking the other day that we haven't heard of an HPFP incident for quite a while on the Touareg forums, but the damage is consistent with such a failure.

At $10K, the costs quoted are several thousand dollars less than others have paid - or got VW to pay - as $16K has been quoted more than once.

At your mileage and age of the car, I think you will have a hard time getting VW to cough up anything, but it is worth a try.

HPFP can be caused by using poor quality diesel with poor lubricity, mis-fuelling with gas, running out of diesel, or consistently running the car with a near empty tank as the fuel the engine doesn't need whilst its running gets sent back to the tank where it arrives very hot and, despite there being a fuel cooler, it does also use the tank's contents to help cool it again.
 

Q8Dhimmi

New member
Joined
Aug 12, 2014
Location
Texas
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI, 2009 Touareg TDI
Why doesnt VW just tell you to change these at 90,000 miles?

Or is it just poor engineering and manufacturing? If it's such a problem why doesn't VW just advise people to replace them at the 90,000 mile service visit?
If I had known I had had such a catastrophic ticking time bomb in this fuel pump I never would've bought this vehicle two years ago.
 

BleachedBora

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 16, 2003
Location
Gresham, Oregon
TDI
'81 DMC-12, '15 GL350 CDI 275 hp/448 tq - '81 Caddy CJAA, '05 E320 CDI 250hp/450 tq, '23 ID4 AWD Pro S Plus
We're recommending HPFP replacements at the 150,000 mile interval on the 2009-2010 cars; do we need to be doing the same thing with the T-regs?
 

atc98002

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Location
Auburn WA
TDI
2014 Passat TDI SEL Premium (sold back), 2009 Jetta (sold back), 80 Rabbit diesel (long gone)
Or is it just poor engineering and manufacturing? If it's such a problem why doesn't VW just advise people to replace them at the 90,000 mile service visit?
If I had known I had had such a catastrophic ticking time bomb in this fuel pump I never would've bought this vehicle two years ago.
If you are referring to your 06 Jetta, this issue doesn't apply. If you have a T-Reg, then it's possible. But, location seems to play into it as well. If you are in a state with a Bio-Diesel mandate, as I am, the pump failure rate is far lower.

My daughter even mis-fueled the Jetta several years ago, and it's still running fine. All the dealer did was flush the system and check the fuel pump for metal. That car is at about 90,000 miles now, with a good 30,000+ since that happened.
 

mrrhtuner

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Location
London Ont Canada
TDI
2003 Jetta Wagon TDI, 2015 Passat TDI, 2015 Touareg TDI
Bora, is there a way to inspect the HPFP for signs of excessive wear to prevent this?
 

Frans

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Apr 25, 2011
Location
Netherlands
TDI
Golf MK2 TDI
Not very common on the touaregs but it does happen every now and then. We supply "kits" , new injectors / fuel lines/ hpfp/lift pump etc for a lot less then $10k.
 

BleachedBora

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 16, 2003
Location
Gresham, Oregon
TDI
'81 DMC-12, '15 GL350 CDI 275 hp/448 tq - '81 Caddy CJAA, '05 E320 CDI 250hp/450 tq, '23 ID4 AWD Pro S Plus
Bora, is there a way to inspect the HPFP for signs of excessive wear to prevent this?
Not really, there's the old "are there metal shavings in the fuel filter?" However, generally they let go before it's noticed.

My line of reasoning is thus:

1) How much does it cost to replace the whole system?
2) It's lasted 150,000 miles, do you expect it to go 300k? Get it changed before it goes catastrophic. The newer generation pumps seem to be performing a lot better too.
3) I originally studied to be a commercial pilot - A 737 pilot for Southwest once told me that "maintenance is the interruption of what will be an inevitable failure."

In the corporate world a part has a designed lifespan. Most VE pumps last on average 150,000 miles. PD injectors are about 200,000 miles. I've put an average lifespan of a HPFP at about 150,000 miles based on what I see every day. Some will last longer, some less, but at that point it's better to replace than wait for that inevitable failure to happen. Costs are a lot less too! As of this writing a VE pump runs $950-1100, PD injectors are $1500-1600/set, and HPFP's only run $500...

Good idea to have the 1 micron fuel filter kit too...

My '10 still has the original pump in it - but it only has 29k on it, and it has the extra fuel filter.

-BB
 

BleachedBora

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 16, 2003
Location
Gresham, Oregon
TDI
'81 DMC-12, '15 GL350 CDI 275 hp/448 tq - '81 Caddy CJAA, '05 E320 CDI 250hp/450 tq, '23 ID4 AWD Pro S Plus
Ahh yes - forgot that part! So go back to the replace at 150k as mentioned earlier, though unfortunately for the OP that's still 4k too late... :(
 

BleachedBora

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 16, 2003
Location
Gresham, Oregon
TDI
'81 DMC-12, '15 GL350 CDI 275 hp/448 tq - '81 Caddy CJAA, '05 E320 CDI 250hp/450 tq, '23 ID4 AWD Pro S Plus
As of this morning for a V6 T-reg: 059130755BT, $698. Brand new, no core. Probably cost about $45 to ship 2-day to Canada via FedEx.
-BB
 

lml999

Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2016
Location
Boston
TDI
2010 Touareg V6 TDI
As of this morning for a V6 T-reg: 059130755BT, $698. Brand new, no core. Probably cost about $45 to ship 2-day to Canada via FedEx.
-BB
Screw it. Before my extended warranty expires, at about 135K, I'm going to replace my pump. Cheaper to do it prophylactically than to do it post shrapnel explosion.

I'll consider it as proxy for the 90K timing belt change on a gas motor :)
 
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aNUT

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Nov 29, 2006
Location
Boulder, Colorado
TDI
'01 TT (ALH-ish), B7 Audi gasser, '05 Golf
those pumps are pretty darn expensive. Maybe just take the head off and look at the plunger/cam/roller

Screw it. Before my extended warranty expires, at about 135K, I'm going to replace my pump. Cheaper to do it prophylactically than to do it post shrapnel explosion.

I'll consider it as proxy for the 90K timing belt change on a gas motor :)
 

giggamootis

New member
Joined
Jun 27, 2016
Location
maine
TDI
jetta sportwagen
Hpfp

2011 Jetta Sportwagen Tdi, driving down the road, lost power. i pulled over and came to a stop and the car would not start again. Got a couple error messages. Towed to VW garage. they diagnosed it as a HPFP failure. I have 119,500 miles. Warranty to 120K might cover it but they said my diesel looked contaminated on quick test and was being sent out for analysis. Has anyone got VW to pay on warranty from contaminated diesel or how do you make a claim against the gas station? Thanks, Tony
 

Fourdiesel

Veteran Member
Joined
May 19, 2003
Location
SW Wash. USA
TDI
'04 Touareg V10 TDI
Prove claim against gas/diesel station by presenting receipt for a full tank OF DIESEL purchased immediately before the failure. And be able to show that no OTHER fuel was purchased between then and the event.
Keep in mind that putting gas in the fuel tank of a diesel will cause the hpfp to fail.
 

SilverGhost

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Location
Back in So Flo - St Lucie
TDI
'05 Golf - totaled :(, wife's '13 Beetle - buy back, TDIless
Keep in mind the only Touareg we have seen fail twisted the camshaft in the process and totaled the vehicle (bent valves). In that case the customer refueled at the boat ramp and we found red tide in the fuel tank. Even worse was while we were "fixing" their Touareg the Chevy dealer was working on their Duramax.

It might be worth the extra step to verify the cam timing (at both ends of driver intake cam) to make sure there is no other damage before replacing the fuel system.

Jason
 

SilverGhost

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Location
Back in So Flo - St Lucie
TDI
'05 Golf - totaled :(, wife's '13 Beetle - buy back, TDIless
The "red tide" was a sludge of red...algae? No red dyed fuel. And VW didn't cover it. Never even asked, just called insurance.

Jason
 

monikadean2014

New member
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Location
Ventura, CA
TDI
2009 Q7 S Line Prestige
2009 Q7 TDI HPFP Catastrophic failure.....

Another casualty here! 2009 Q7 TDI S Line with 117,000 miles. It just died while driving on Sat night as I came to a dead stop at a light. My mechanic coded it today and supplied pics. I suspected the worst and that's what has happened. HPFP catastrophic failure.
I find it pretty disgusting really that Audi hasn't done more to come up with a maintenance schedule for this, it certainly would save them a LOT of money if they do wind up covering it. This sucks too being how I'm just over a month from them buying my TDI in the Diesel Gate buy back lawsuit.
Pretty disgusting!
 

n1das

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2002
Location
Nashua, NH, USA
TDI
2014 BMW 535xd ///M-Sport, 2012 BMW X5 Xdrive35d, former 3x TDI owner
Odd, I was only thinking the other day that we haven't heard of an HPFP incident for quite a while on the Touareg forums, but the damage is consistent with such a failure.

At $10K, the costs quoted are several thousand dollars less than others have paid - or got VW to pay - as $16K has been quoted more than once.

At your mileage and age of the car, I think you will have a hard time getting VW to cough up anything, but it is worth a try.

HPFP can be caused by using poor quality diesel with poor lubricity, mis-fuelling with gas, running out of diesel, or consistently running the car with a near empty tank as the fuel the engine doesn't need whilst its running gets sent back to the tank where it arrives very hot and, despite there being a fuel cooler, it does also use the tank's contents to help cool it again.
HPFP failure can be caused by ingesting slugs of free water :eek: in diesel fuel. The HPFP in common rail systems are much more susceptible to damage from water in diesel fuel from condensation compared to older rotary (VE) injector pump systems. Slugs of free water in diesel fuel will destroy the HPFP in no time at all and will do so faster than poor lubricity will. Free water in diesel fuel absolutely must be avoided at ALL costs! :eek:

I wish our TDIs had a Water in Fuel (WIF) sensor in the fuel filter to alert owners of possible water problems so they can take immediate corrective action to prevent HPFP failure and other problems. If rust and corrosion are found in the fuel system upon teardown, it's a sign that the fuel system has been ingesting water for some time. :eek:

To the original poster (OP), have you regularly used an additive with every tankful such as PowerService Diesel Fuel Supplement (white bottle) to increase lubricity and control water? Do you fuel up at high diesel turnover stations along major routes that get lots of truck traffic? The fuel will be the freshest in the region at these stations because it's constantly being replaced due to the large amount of truck traffic and will be less likely to be contaminated with water from condensation and who knows what else. Diesel fuel is hygroscopic like brake fluid is and likes to soak up water like a sponge. A station that rarely turns their fuel is more likely to have a significant amount of water from condensation and also have microbial growth due to the water. A single tank of water-contaminated fuel is all it takes to wreck a HPFP in no time at all and must be avoided at ALL costs.

Sorry to hear. Good luck.
 
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Tow-rig

Active member
Joined
Aug 12, 2011
Location
Cincinnati, OH
TDI
Touareg 2011
What are the early warning signs, if any, of this problem? I have an '11 with 128K miles, half of which were easy 70 mph highway trips and half shorter trips. And maybe 15K miles of the highway trips included towing a 5,000 lb trailer.
Anyhow, the engine has started to occasionally cut-out for a split second. It reminds me of fuel starvation problems I have had in other vehicles. Tank is full though. Makes no difference if engine is warm or if I am traveling in a straight line or going around a corner or headed uphill or down. No check-engine light is triggered. I know it could be a million other things (also feels like huge turbo-lag). I dont want to spend a fortune replacing parts it if I am going to do a buyback in 2 months.
 

Radman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 13, 2001
Location
Montreal
TDI
2014 Audi A6 TDI, 2014 Touareg TDI
Does it cut out at idle or full throttle? How old is the Fuel filter?
 

Tow-rig

Active member
Joined
Aug 12, 2011
Location
Cincinnati, OH
TDI
Touareg 2011
Just poking around town, usually low speed. Not on full acceleration, mild acceleration, never happened above 30 mph. VW mechanics checked it out and can find no problems. It is 5K into its most recent 10K service. Since I use it to pull an enclosed trailer and race car, I don't want to get stranded with it somewhere. Certainly livable as is, the concern is it getting worse. It has lasted thru 2 tankfuls of fuel.
 

Radman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 13, 2001
Location
Montreal
TDI
2014 Audi A6 TDI, 2014 Touareg TDI
Do you occasionally drive it like you stole it? A friend on mine has the Cayenne Diesel which his Wife babies too much and ends up getting limp mode and codes. Once he drives it hard everything clears and runs fine. These cars are designed to be driven spiritedly otherwise turbo actuators seize up, intakes clog etc... dont be shy to beat it once in awhile, it may clear some type of blockage. Regardless yours goes back shortly you mentioned so would not worry too much.
 
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