VW Service Labor "Time Unit"

Wobbly

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Location
Portland, ORegon
TDI
05 Passat Wagon
Thanks.

Are VW dealers required to base their labor charges on these times, or are they creative in applying them?
 

hevster1

Vendor
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
Columbia NJ
TDI
98 NB
This applies to ANY dealer or repair center. A published labor guide such as Chilton, Motor or Mitchell are GUIDES not the law. A dealer or repair center is an entity which can charge whatever they want. A VW or Toyota or GM Etc. labor guide is for warranty use only. This is what the manufacturer will pay the dealer to perform warranty service. The dealer can use it as a guide on what to charge customers but they do not have to.

I know of only 1 dealer which used the warranty guide and they lost technicians so fast it wasn't funny.They ended up going back to the Motor guide which was generally 20% more generous.

Now before everyone here cries ripoff you have to remember that dealers and repair centers are in business to make money not lose it. They also do not fix cars out of the goodness of their heart. Most technicians get paid flat rate which means they get paid per job. Dealer warranty guides are meant to save the manufacturer money, nothing more. Most of the times are impossible to even break even with. Cash labor is where technicians make money.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Like to add to what hevster said, which is 100% spot on, is that some dealers even of the same brand often change the times considerably and add on extra crap not needed.

For instance, no Volkswagen PM schedule ever has "apply Scotch Guard" to interior fabrics for a 40k service, yet I know of one dealer that did just that, and charged $25 to do so. :rolleyes:

Also, strange as it may seem, manufacturers only publish warranty labor times for service, not the standard ones. So while there will me some standardization within the brand for warranty times, there will NOT be any for standard work. Hence the huge differences when you call around fro pricing. Which I think is a waste of time anyways since you rarely know EXACTLY what you are being quoted. This is why I lose some work on timing belt jobs, because a local dealer WILL certainly be cheaper for replacement of JUST a timing belt... and that is all you'll get. You won't get anything else, and you'll need to keep my number handy so I can redo the job properly when it barely runs or won't run at all :rolleyes: .
 

cadman1940

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Location
Wichita Ks
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI
Wages

I must ask how many of the people here realse that a good mechanic with a crediable suply of tools has a really large investment in his job. It is not uncommon to find that the mechanics in dealerships have more mony invested in their job than their employer. I find it not uncommon that mechanics will have 100,000 dollars and it is not uncommon to find this number much higher. The Doctor you go to for health problems has only 2 models to be concerned with yet a mechanic has how many? To further put this in perspective a mechanic working in a shop often has more in tools than that Dr has in education and tools to work on you. I have never forgot a customer at a shop I worked in in 1962 wanted to borrow a screwdriver and plires to tighten his tag while I worked on the front end of his car. I noticed that he was poking around in my tools and then I would hear the back door on the car slam shut. After finishing my work I walked back and opened the door and there was a substantial pile of my tools. I removed them and told him to get in the passenger side we were going for a road test. I drove back to the bosses office door and explained the problem to my employer and that further this person was not welcome in my stall. I would work on his car but he would not be with it. Thanks Eric A mechanic for most of my worklife.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Yeah, it is a tough field. Especially when you have to work with so many C and D students that society has thrown you over the last 50 years :rolleyes:
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
So how do the mechanics get paid for diagnostic time on a shop job? (As opposed to a warranty job)
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
whitedog said:
So how do the mechanics get paid for diagnostic time on a shop job? (As opposed to a warranty job)
Much of that depends on the shop.

Our shop usually charges a straight 1 hour for most diagnostic work relating to driveability, but typically for me, if all I do is plug a scan tool in and do a couple quick checks (for instance a GP fault...easy quick thing to diagnose typically) then I will only allow myself .5 hr. I am probably more honest that most others.

And if it is a BIG job, like for instance last week when a customer needed a chain tensioner on a 1.8t B5, I waived any scan tool diagnostics since she fixed the car and it was a big ($1800+) job, including a couple other minor things.

I probably do more little tidbits for free than I should, but I so enjoy what I do it pays off in other ways. :)
 

Plus 3 Golfer

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Location
ARIZONA
TDI
Und tschüss! 2009 Jetta 12/23/2012
Wobbly said:
Thanks.

Are VW dealers required to base their labor charges on these times, or are they creative in applying them?
Like others have basically said, shops have to collect sufficient funds to pay techs and run their business.

I've heard that some dealers apply up to a 1.5 factor on the TUs. I think the average customer has little concept of the length of time to do a job but gets offended by high hourly rates. So, from a customer perspecitve, it's better for the shop to charge $90 per hour and 1.5 hours of time than $135 per hour and 1.0 hours labor for the same job.

Bottom line Wobbly, get comparable out-the-door prices for the job being done including parts list and labor. Don't worry about the TUs and labor rates.
 
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oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Plus 3 Golfer said:
...
Bottom line Wobbly, get comparable out-the-door prices for the job being done including parts list and labor. Don't worry about the TUs and labor rates.
And be sure they actually have the ability to perform the job in question correctly. The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after a cheap price is forgotten. ;)
 

tdidieselbobny

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Location
Stafford,NY (WNY)
TDI
'03 Galactic Blue Jetta TDI, '15 Silk Blue Golf Sportwagen TDI
oilhammer said:
I probably do more little tidbits for free than I should, but I so enjoy what I do it pays off in other ways. :)
To me,this would definitely be repeat business and high praise of the shop to anyone who needs work done on a vehicle.Any mechanic that goes out of his way being honest and upfront gets high praise from me:) !!!
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
When I had the dealer do the brake light switch recall on the Jetta, I saw the tech working on it and before he finished he sprayed the door hinges with lube. I saw this through the window and was sure to thank him for it. I think that this was a very good sign of this tech. He never mentioned it, he just did it. It took a minute of his time and he never mentioned it, he just did it because that was his standard. I can appreciate that.

And as a mechanic, I can certainly say that he appreciated me thanking him for it. I know I always appreciated it when people thanked me for the little things I would do for them.

One day a good customer came in and I did something to his tractor, nothing big, I don't think he even took it off of the trailer. BUt I noticed that his rear window (which folds up) was covered in dust. Well, I wrote, "Hi [bob]" on it. He was in the next week and he gave me a funny look, so I went out with towels and window cleaner and washed all of his windows. That speaks more to the relationship than to anything else, but it was a fun day regardless. :D
 

hevster1

Vendor
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
Columbia NJ
TDI
98 NB
whitedog said:
So how do the mechanics get paid for diagnostic time on a shop job? (As opposed to a warranty job)
Sometimes we get nothing. It depends on shop policy. I will always go the extra mile to help out a customer but I do want to get paid for my labors. Believe it or not I have even had customers try to haggle price on side jobs where I was charging $20 an hour. I can't compete with Sears on struts for example using OEM parts. Parts alone cost more than they charge for the whole job. What many do not realize is that their upsell of unneeded items is quite common. When they get out of there that $100 advertised price for struts is now over 1k.
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
hevster1 said:
What many do not realize is that their upsell of unneeded items is quite common. When they get out of there that $100 advertised price for struts is now over 1k.
Unfortunately, that is why it's so difficult for some shops to sell things like all of the parts in the timing belt SYSTEM. They just went through some hard upsell from the dealer or whatnot, then they hear about all of these "other parts" that the mechanic says should be changed.

Anyway, I'm glad that I work in an industry where we don't work flatrate. How can you bill out one hour of troubleshooting, only to find that one little clip is missing, saving a $30,000 transmission replacement? It's called customer relations.:) Of course from there we upsold a bunch of other stuff, but he came in expecting a huge bill and this other stuff was needed as well, so he was a happy customer.
 

jasonTDI

TDI GURU Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Apr 26, 2001
Location
Oregon, WI
TDI
20' RAM 3500 CCLB dually HO/Aisan. 2019 Cherokee 2.0T
FWIW I don't give a choice about TB repair. Either you do it all or you move along. Had a few go elsewhere over the years but that's the way I roll on that.

I do a lot of "extras" for people too, goes a long way with them.
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
jasonTDI said:
FWIW I don't give a choice about TB repair. Either you do it all or you move along. Had a few go elsewhere over the years but that's the way I roll on that.
Yep, you work on so many TDIs because of your reputation and if you send out a car that fails what can that do to your rep? It's like I never rebuilt a Deere engine that didn't get a new oil pump. I never took one apart to inspect it, but for 1-2% of the price of the total rebuild job, it's worth it especially when downtime caused by low oil pressure can cost the profit in a job.
 

Pat Dolan

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2002
Location
Martensville, SK
TDI
2003 A4 Variant, 2015 Q7
cadman1940 said:
I must ask how many of the people here realse that a good mechanic with a crediable suply of tools has a really large investment in his job. It is not uncommon to find that the mechanics in dealerships have more mony invested in their job than their employer. I find it not uncommon that mechanics will have 100,000 dollars and it is not uncommon to find this number much higher. The Doctor you go to for health problems has only 2 models to be concerned with yet a mechanic has how many? To further put this in perspective a mechanic working in a shop often has more in tools than that Dr has in education and tools to work on you. I have never forgot a customer at a shop I worked in in 1962 wanted to borrow a screwdriver and plires to tighten his tag while I worked on the front end of his car. I noticed that he was poking around in my tools and then I would hear the back door on the car slam shut. After finishing my work I walked back and opened the door and there was a substantial pile of my tools. I removed them and told him to get in the passenger side we were going for a road test. I drove back to the bosses office door and explained the problem to my employer and that further this person was not welcome in my stall. I would work on his car but he would not be with it. Thanks Eric A mechanic for most of my worklife.
Eric: I hope you meant that a typically well-equipped mechanic has more invested in HIS STALL than the business does. That would be very accurate.

It was mentioned by others that dealers don't go from the VW time allowances. Maybe where you live (and maybe where I live these days), but I worked my whole time at VW straight out of the VW times, and our shop ran about 110% to 115% - with no diagnostic time allowances (that was a while ago). Most other dealers I knew also used VW times for both warranty and retail, but very few could run 100% shops.

Also, I somehow doubt you have had the pleasure of putting a child through medical school. You barely get started for a 100 grand.

Finally: the shop you worked in in 1962....****, you're even older than I am. Didn't think that was possible.

Pat
 

truman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 18, 2000
Location
columbia,MO,usa
TDI
'05 Passat Variant, Still miss the 03JW
I received a flyer from Dean Team in Oilhammer's territory, with an ad for a timing belt and tensioner change for $589. It sounds like a great price, if you don't know any better- more work for OH down the road.
 
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