blown head gasket

Mongler98

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Location
COLORADO (SE of Denver)
TDI
98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress) I moved so now i got nothing but an AHU in a garage on a pallet.
I am truly sorry for your loss, we have all been there when we made a wrong move that made things worse.
I am not trying to be mean by saying this but you did not listen to all of our advice on starting it up. oh well, another one bites the dust. My suspicion is that you had a head gasket failure, you warped the head and cylinder past its egg limits, too much blow by and oil consumption caused it to run away and that dominoed into a total failure.
A leak down test would have exposed this issue, there is a high chance that this was going to happen or you were going to find out that the block was fubard and in my opinion it was doomed and you blowing it up just caused you to have less work and $ in parts on an engine that was already ready for carnage.
again, i know it feels really sh!tty but feel relived that its over, you didn't spend more than you just lost. Maybe you can do a engine swap and have some fun with a new build!
Any chance you can upload some pictures and we can have a moment of silence internet style for the loss of another beloved TDI?
 

KBCB

Active member
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Location
CO
TDI
none
No offense taken. Given how fast this engine grenaded I don't think it was long for this world anyways. My suspicion is that there was a ring failure that was causing the smoke. And I would also bet this wasn't the first time that it did this. When I saw the smoke billowing out (for the spit second I was able to divert my attention) It didn't look white to me. It looked blue.

At any rate I do have a decision to make. I could probably part this out and get my money back out, but to be honest I was really looking forward to having a little TDi wagon. So I'm going to look around and see what I can find for an ALH.

I will post a couple pictures as soon as I can.
 

belome

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Location
Mid MI
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS TDI 5-speed
I am not trying to be mean by saying this but you did not listen to all of our advice on starting it up.
Honestly, I tried to re-reading this entire thread and nobody really warned him about checking the oil in the intercooler... unless I somehow missed it.
 

KLXD

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
I didn't follow this thread but read through it today. I don't mean to kick you when you're down and hindsight is 20-20 but...

Bad TC put oil in #2 increasing the compression either by oil pooled in the piston or just helping the rings seal?

He did the compression test with the plugs in the cylinders not being tested. They should all have been out.

And with a suspected head gasket leak he should have pulled all the plugs anyway and spun the engine to blow out any water. This might have revealed oil in #2.

Motor running away? Don't put it in neutral, shut off the key and use the brakes to control the speed while pulling over.

Also interesting that the ASV didn't stop the motor. Or was it disabled during the troubleshooting? He said he shut it off before pulling over.
 
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KBCB

Active member
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Location
CO
TDI
none
No worries, at this point I'm treating this as a post-morteum discussion. I'd rather learn from this, and move forward, than shy away and not say anything about my mistakes. This discussion will hopefully help someone else from making the same mistakes.

This is also my first go-around with getting my hands this far into a diesel. But it isn't going to be the last time. I still have my donor ALH to go into my 4Runner. And part of grabbing this car was to really familiarize myself with these engines. Well, be careful what you ask for!

I realized afterward I should have stalled the motor with the breaks. I didn't disable the ASV for any troubleshooting, so it should have shut the engine down. Not sure how fast the ASV is supposed to engage, but this all happened very quickly. Hard to estimate time when these things are going on, but I was probably doing 35mph and before I could get the car to a stop, or even appreciatively slowed, the engine was already done.

He did the compression test with the plugs in the cylinders not being tested. They should all have been out.
Noted for next time!
 

Mongler98

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 23, 2011
Location
COLORADO (SE of Denver)
TDI
98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress) I moved so now i got nothing but an AHU in a garage on a pallet.
Regardless of going to school or not, we all pay for our education as adults. we can only learn from others and from our own mistakes. The more costly the mistake, the better the education. Think of this as a $~1,500 educational course in TDI care, learn from it and share with others, it's all you can do!
 

Franko6

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2005
Location
Sw Missouri
TDI
Jetta, 99, Silver`
KCBC,

I've been lurking waiting to see what happened. That's a catastrophe. Rod through the block... But the rod was not the inception, just the last crack in the wall(pun intended). I was wondering if it was the #3 or #4 rod. Usually it's #3.

We have been using a main bearing set that has 6 radially slotted bearing shells and 4 solid shells. The reason for the additional slotted rod bearing is to keep the most often broken rod, the #3, from doing exactly what yours probably did. The 'extra' slotted bearing goes in the #4 main bearing cap, so that you have a slotted bearing top and bottom. This causes the oil feed to the #3 rod to be 100% duty rather than 50%. The solid bearing cuts oil flow to the #3 rod off for 1/2 of it's rotation. Although all of the rods do the same, the #3 rod is the most strained because of the intake manifold design directs air to the #3 and the water flow makes the #3 cylinder hotter. It receives more potential strain.

We build a lot of engines here and have a reputation for getting it right. The one thing I can say is you cylinder head is probably just fine. The crank might be ok. You probably have several pistons and rods that will work. We don't weld holes in blocks...

But you might be lucky and even if the crank is galled, it's probably repairable.

Let us know if you need some help.
 

KBCB

Active member
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Location
CO
TDI
none
OP:
This guy parts out items in Monument. He may have something for you.
I made a run down there this early winter.
https://eastco.craigslist.org/search/pta?query=tdi+monument

Thanks for the link! How was he to deal with? Fair?

Frank thanks for the input. Like I mentioned before I have another ALH that's going in my 4Runner. In your opinion would it be worth it to redo the bearings in that motor? My top priority for any engine in that truck is reliability. That's my adventure-mobile and it's not uncommon to find myself wandering through BFE, where a break-down could be serious.
 

Prairieview

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2017
Location
Too close to Sturgis 'ithole
TDI
Two 2000 Beetles, 2002 Jetta, 2002 gas avh Jetta, fleet of older 1.6 turbo and non's
Monument:
Yes. He seems a good man. Know what you need prior to getting there. I believe much of the engine items disappear quickly. But, he is getting stuff all the time out of the city to the north.

I worked on obtaining 5-speed components.
 

Franko6

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2005
Location
Sw Missouri
TDI
Jetta, 99, Silver`
Which motor? Your spare?

Depending on the history and your knowledge of the 'spare' engine, we ALWAYS remove the cylinder head and the oil pan. We check piston condition and bearing condition before we waste the time installing what might be a problem engine. It's very quick and easy to remove a cylinder head and oil pan that is on a stand. On the other hand, it's about 20 hrs (done correctly and very clean...) to remove and reinstall and engine. I'm not doing it twice. Goes against my mantras.

We inspect the cylinder bores and make sure everything looks 'normal' on the cylinder head. If it's got a lot of miles, we do a valve job and replace the guides, surface the head. If the block shows any deformation, we skim the block. They have a penchant for creating a valley with the low point being the webs between the cylinders. A flat head still needs a flat block. We got some cool tricks to get that job done right.

At the bottom end, we usually inspect the #4 main and the #3 rod bearings to determine condition. The #3 rod because it's the hottest and most worked, and the #4 main. If the #3 rod shows wear, we replace the set. The mains are more robust. If the #4 bearing looks good, we just replace the lower bearing from a solid to a slotted bearing and bolt it back up. Replace any of the hardware, as all those bolts on the OEM are TTY.
 

Prairieview

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2017
Location
Too close to Sturgis 'ithole
TDI
Two 2000 Beetles, 2002 Jetta, 2002 gas avh Jetta, fleet of older 1.6 turbo and non's
You don't have Dick Nixon to kick around anymore!

Get ahold of Mark in Monument and see what he has or doesn't have.
 

Prairieview

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 9, 2017
Location
Too close to Sturgis 'ithole
TDI
Two 2000 Beetles, 2002 Jetta, 2002 gas avh Jetta, fleet of older 1.6 turbo and non's
I found his big overbearing German Shepard a bit frightening when I was there. I guess that is what he is for!!!!
 

Franko6

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2005
Location
Sw Missouri
TDI
Jetta, 99, Silver`
It is a runaway, but the reason it's always #3 is insufficient oil volume. The #4 main oils the #3 rod. Check out your 'new' engine. I can guarantee you, it's solid lower bearing, which would be factory. We suggest you check it out for wear. If the bottom bearing is good, congratulations... then change it to a slotted bearing. And as logic would have it, I'd check the condition of the rod bearing. Wouldn't that be horrible if you did all this just to repeat the whole process?

In your 'new to you' engine (which by the way, we hear lots of stories about mileage/ reality), I will say it again. Don't just 'put it in'. Make sure it looks like it's WORTH putting in. Just because he says it's 150k, could mean it is... maybe not... but even an engine with 100k could be worn out. Check the block by removing the head. This is cheap insurance. $15 of head bolts and a $32 head gasket...Also, remember, it may be on it's second timing belt, but it should be on it's 4th. The timing belt should be replaced in 5 year increments, regardless of miles.

This is what you must think. The car is a 1998-2003, so it's between 15-20 years old and it's only drove 7,500-10,000 a year? That's below average or a total city car. Maybe it's true, maybe not. What I do know is deflating engine mileage is way too common. Being suspicious with a used engine is a good policy.
 

KBCB

Active member
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Location
CO
TDI
none
Frank, thanks for the advice.

Where do you get your slotted bearings? I am thinking that for the engine that is going back in the Jetta, I'll probably go ahead and do this. On the other hand I try my best not to screw with things that aren't broken. Before the motor was pulled I heard it run fine. So my plan is to scope the bore, check clearances, do a new timing belt, and run it. Is it a risk? Yep, but in the end I'm only out my own time with minimal parts. If I had to take it to a garage I would probably feel different. Also from what I've read the ALH engine isn't prone to HG issues. Now if it was a Toy 3.0l this wouldn't even be a discussion.
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
I thought my factory bearings were slotted (my old '99.5)

Replacements were the same, can't remember where I got them.
 
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