New Passat TDI confirmed for U.S.

No option for TDI/DSG without sunroof might keep us out of this vehicle, unfortunately.

I don't think 18" wheels means a better ride...if so, why not 22"?

went and sat in one the other day, not has comfortable as my 2010 jetta, seat did not feel right, and less headroom

securityguy said:

Maybe I missed something but the Passat does NOT come with the RNS-315...it comes with the RNS-510 if you get the NAV package.

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Here are the trims:

S 2.5:

5-speed manual, 16" steel, dual-zone climatronic, multi-function wheel, cloth, Bluetooth, 6 speaker sound mp3/wma, aux-in, automatic headlights, 60/40 folding rear seats

S 2.5 with appearance package:

adds 6-speed auto, 16" alloy, rear armrest storage, illuminated vanity mirrors

SE 2.5:

includes S with appearance package plus: 17" alloy, 5 speed manual, heated exterior mirrors and washer nozzles, trip computer, vinyl seats, touchscreen sound with 8 speakers, 6-disc changer, sd card reader, sirius w/ three months, 8-way power driver's seat with power lumbar

SE TDI:

All SE 2.5 plus: TDI engine, electromechanical power steering, 6-speed manual

SE 2.5 with 6-speed automatic transmission

SE TDI with sunroof and DSG

SE 2.5 with 6-speed auto and sunroof

SE V6:
All SE 2.5 plus: 18" alloy, DSG, sunroof, chrome tips, leather wheel, electromechanical power steering, Fender audio, sport seats, fog lights

SE 2.5 with 6-speed auto and navigation (I assume it's the RNS 315)

SE V6 with navigation:

All SE V6 plus: RNS 315 nav with 5" screen, MDI with iPod cable

SE TDI with sunroof and nav:

All SE TDI plus: 18" alloys, RNS 315 nav, MDI with iPod cable, fog lights, chrome side moldings and bumper accents

SEL 2.5:

all SE 2.5 + sunroof/nav plus: 17" alloys with special design, RNS 510 navigation with 6.5" screen and 30GB hard disk, Fender audio, wood interior trim, sport seats, homelink garage opener, ambient lighting front and rear

SEL2 2.5:

All SEL 2.5 plus: leather with suede inserts, KESSY (remote start, push-button start, keyless entry), fog lights, 8-way power front seats with power lumbar and memory for driver's seat, heated exterior mirrors with memory

SEL V6:

All SE V6 with nav and: leather with suede inserts, KESSY (keyless access, push-button start, remote start), RNS 510 nav with 30GB hard disk, 8-way power front seats with power lumbar and memory for driver's seat, heated exterior mirrors with memory, wood interior trim, homelink garage opener, ambient front and rear lighting

SEL TDI:

All SE TDI with sunroof/nav plus: leather with suede inserts, sport seats, 8-way power front seats with power lumbar and memory for driver's seat, heated exterior mirrors with memory, wood interior trim, KESSY (keyless access, push-button start, remote start), RNS 510 navigation with 6.5" screen and 30GB hard disk, Fender audio, wood interior trim, homelink garage opener, ambient front/rear lighting

My bad...thanks OX! SE has the 315 NAV and SEL had the 510. I missed that in the "stuff" that I have

I went and looked at the Passat again and my biggest issues with the SEL TDI are the climate system's weak/noisy fans (and lack of rear vents), and the 18" wheels. Other than that, the car is very comfortable. People who want silence are better off with the gas engine. The diesel is quite a bit louder.

Edit: Climate system not so loud when temp not set to "lo". Try setting it to a regular temperature. It also can move quite a bit of air if one messes with the settings a bit more, although it gets noisy.

The leather seats were more comfortable than the vinyl in the JSW, but the vinyl Passat seats seemed to be equally comfortable when I did the test drives the day before. The Fender audio still didn't impress me, but it's not bad. It seems to be mostly midrange. It doesn't have the clarity and depth of the Dynaudio.

Edit: Leather seats are softer than the vinyl. Fender audio seems to benefit from turning the midrange down quite a bit, setting the treble to flat, and pushing the fader back a bit. It is much better than the stock audio in the gas Golf, but not as "transparent" as the Dynaudio. I did notice, however, some details in a song I know well that I hadn't noticed before.

I wonder if dealers can substitute 17" wheels for SEL buyers? It seems silly to pay extra for the larger wheels and then substitute, though.

Edit: They can, although how good the deal is remains to be seen.

I'm still not happy about mandatory sunroofs. There's a topic that I just saw in the Golf/JSW subforum that shows a shattered sunroof. Sunroofs on some vehicles have leaked. I can't convince the spouse to consider a manual, and I'm not so keen on those anyway because they seem like a lot of extra work to deal with. With my tender lower back and long legs, I don't think one will work out anyway.

Edit: Still unhappy about the mandatory sunroof. I have no use for it and would prefer a vehicle that's quieter, less expensive, less complicated, and which has greater structural integrity.

I do think VW should offer better-looking paint, too. Other car makers offer pearlescent white which is nicer than VW's white. Hyundai, for instance, also has metallic paints that have coarser, more obvious, mica flecks, which I think look more upscale. Hyundai also offers LED interior/exterior lighting (except the headlights) on its Sonata Hybrid which is a bonus because LEDs are more efficient and long-lived, although I was behind a car last night with LED taillights and they're annoying to look at -- piercingly bright. Unfortunately, the Hyundia Sonata Hybrid is not as comfortable as the Passat and isn't as nice to drive. It seems to let in more road noise and its fuel efficiency also isn't very impressive according to some reviews. It does, though, have an outstanding rear climate system that not only has vents for the people in the back, but they're easily directed at each person, powerful, and the intensity can be adjusted. VW could learn a lot by sitting in this vehicle's back seat in hot weather and then sitting in the back of a black Passat with a black interior.

Edit: Plain white paint isn't so bad. The beige leather is very nice, although the combination of beige leather plus wood plus black makes the interior look overly complex/busy. Still, it's not bad. It doesn't seem German to me, though. The clock still seems superfluous and doesn't look upscale.

I did some highway driving this time and was again definitely impressed with the ride. The sport mode is less impressive because it has a negative feeling when slowing down that is pretty much absent from the normal mode. It did accelerate very quickly, though. Tire noise was pronounced, likely because of the 18" wheels/tires.

It should look a little better too. Ride I agree, jury is out at best.

The red color seems to be pretty nice, although from the photos and videos I've seen it looks a bit bronzed/brownish.

Saw my first 2012 Passat today. Its a quiet design, not shouting get behind the wheel NOW and drive me.
But it is smart. Even if VW NA refuse to build the wagon. That's not smart.

The thing is, a crossover counts as a truck for them, and therefore affects their CAFE scores differently.

And, with the Touareg, they need a crossover to boost their truck scores, rather than a Passat Wagon to keep their car scores the same.

The rumors say that there'll be a three-row crossover based on the Amerissat, so...

bhtooefr said:

The thing is, a crossover counts as a truck for them, and therefore affects their CAFE scores differently.

And, with the Touareg, they need a crossover to boost their truck scores, rather than a Passat Wagon to keep their car scores the same.

The rumors say that there'll be a three-row crossover based on the Amerissat, so...

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The 2011 Toureg is getting 7L/100km hwy. The Audi gives you the same thing but bigger with the 3rd seats (and not as good mileage).

Why not just rebrand the Audi if they want 3 rows? And what's an Amerissat?

Because the Audi is heavy, as is the Touareg. And, they're both intended to be luxury vehicles with big longitudinal engines.

An Amerissat is the NMS - the 2012+ US/Canada Passat.

A crossover based on it will be a hell of a lot cheaper, and most likely more efficient, than a Touareg or Q7. It won't be as nice, though, either. And, it'll most likely use the same engine lineup as the Passat does, topping out at the 3.6 VR6, with Haldex AWD (just like the Passat used to have optional) instead of the quite good systems used on the Touareg and Q7 - Haldex is good enough for the market that buys these things.

Ah, I see, something between the Tiguan and Touareg. Touguan/Toucan?

Does a Tiguan count as a truck?
What define's a "truck" as far as CAFE is concerned?

Think of the Passat versus the Audi A4, really.

The Passat is a bigger, cheaper car, just like this will be a bigger, cheaper truck.

As for the definitions... from the NHTSA:

Who classifies vehicles for the purposes of CAFE and how is it done?

Authority to establish vehicle classifications for the purposes of calculating CAFE was delegated to NHTSA. Specifically, the definitions are as follows:

1) Passenger Car – any 4-wheel vehicle not designed for off-road use that is manufactured primarily for use in transporting 10 people or less.

2) Truck – a 4-wheel vehicle which is designed for off-road operation (has 4-wheel drive or is more than 6,000 lbs. GVWR and has physical features consistent with those of a truck); or which is designed to perform at least one of the following functions: (1) transport more than 10 people; (2) provide temporary living quarters; (3) transport property in an open bed; (4) permit greater cargo-carrying capacity than passenger-carrying volume; or (5) can be converted to an open bed vehicle by removal of rear seats to form a flat continuous floor with the use of simple tools.

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Technically, IIRC, a carmaker can pick the classification they want... so a Jetta Sportwagen might be able to be classified as a truck. Hmm.

Hmmm...
I think that an Amarok would be classified as a truck. Let's see VW bring that instead of another overly ugly cross over that doesn't really function as either a car or a truck!

Of course, there are other quirks with the car/truck classification.

For cars, if 75% or more of the content, by cost is US or Canadian, the car is in a separate fleet from cars with under 75% US/Canadian content.

For trucks, there's no such distinction.

So, depending on how they did things, it could very well be that the Amerissat is in its own fleet. (I actually doubt that - IIRC, none of the engines or transmissions are made here.) If that is the case, then they can't really afford to make a wagon.

So I finally got to test drive it Saturday and thought I would post the things that stuck out to me.

As noted there are no vents in the back, as well there is no power port. Did they forget passengers and their electronic devices? DUH! How many bucks did they save by cutting that out?

The vehicle drives well with good performance. The DSG is SMOOTH and seamless when it shifts. Under full acceleration there is no noticeable shift points. The Passat was quieter, smoother riding, and better handling than the Jetta. Any bumps or shocks in the Jetta were felt by the passengers, where as the Passat was smoother. The car had Hanook tires and they sounded loud compared to Michelins or Yoko's.

I just can't get over it being American assembled. I had no issue with the Mexico assembled Jettas (2000 and 2002) when I had them, but this just bugs me. If I am paying this much I want GERMAN made. I did notice the SEL was more upscale and seemed to have the same features and glitz of the Passats we are used to. The entry level was definitely appeared cheaper in quality. Looks like they skimped on the entry level to keep the price low.

More headroom and shoulder room than the Jetta both front and rear. For the person saying it had less, did they have the seat up too high?

So, I made the mistake of driving a Mercedes E350 BlueTec. Granted, it is about 2x the price, but when looking at everything it is worth it if you can afford $54,000. Not sure I want to spend $35K on a USA assembled vehicle with 60% US parts when for another $20k I can have the Mercedes. It is a tough call if you can afford the difference.

After seeing the issues with VW TDI's and specifically the 2005 Passats (Cam issues, Balance Shaft issues, glow plugs and overall engine metal wear issues) and being able to compare that with the MB 3.0L V6 in the Jeep I own, the MB engine and transmission is FAR SUPERIOR and better quality. The Used Oil Analysis has proven that to be the case.

Just my two cents....

TomB - your viewpoint is 100% wrong!

In all seriousness this was a good take on things. I've been excited for it but the small things you noticed have lessened that excitement (I loved the rear vents and power socket in the MkV Jetta!) The American Made thing doesn't really irk me - I'd rather be employing some Americans in TN then paying a higher MSRP due to import taxes.

I think the only thing that keeps me from a E-Class diesel is the lack of a stick shift.

TomB said:

After seeing the issues with VW TDI's and specifically the 2005 Passats (Cam issues, Balance Shaft issues, glow plugs and overall engine metal wear issues) and being able to compare that with the MB 3.0L V6 in the Jeep I own, the MB engine and transmission is FAR SUPERIOR and better quality. The Used Oil Analysis has proven that to be the case.

Just my two cents....

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Ok here is mine, somewhat. On the American made thing vs the German made, My 1982 Rabbit and my 1986 GTi held up quite well thank you! My A5 (mexican made) vs my B6 (german made) has had far fewer recalls, actually just one to my knowlege, and it was a side airbag sensor (Passat had same recall). The Passat has had a host of other recalls. (nothing major but still had them) (My B5.5 had a minor one, Audi A6 none while I had it) My Jeep GC has had a few Mercedes related issue, the Altenator went bad at 26k, but out of Warranty (3mo after the 3 yrs ran out) and it was specific to the vehicle, one guy refuesed to work on it, I have an MB mechanic in Annapolis that did and he said it was a bizatch! I have an occasional shift sensor issues also. That is the MB related, not American. I speed sensor went bad bit was under warranty at that point. I am not getting the milage I expected either, though it has a tow package. ( still expect a little better)

My concern if I wanted the Passat would be the first year production issues.

Well, really, it's VW correcting their course after the product positioning nightmare that was the Mk4, B5, Mk5, and B6 era.

If you want a small luxury sedan, instead of a Jetta, there's the Audi A4.

If you want a midsize luxury sedan, instead of a Passat, there's the Audi A6.

Which is what VW should've done all along - VWs are supposed to be basic transportation.

bhtooefr said:

Well, really, it's VW correcting their course after the product positioning nightmare that was the Mk4, B5, Mk5, and B6 era.

If you want a small luxury sedan, instead of a Jetta, there's the Audi A4.

If you want a midsize luxury sedan, instead of a Passat, there's the Audi A6.

Which is what VW should've done all along - VWs are supposed to be basic transportation.

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Well I disagree, Besides a few recalls, I an very happy with my B6. I actually like much more the the Audi A4 and I like it as much as the A6 4.2 and my A5 is not the same as an Audi A4. The B5/5.5 was nice and would compare more to the A4 due the shared platform. I am actually displeased with the current line up. Jetta seems to big and Passat Not sporty enough. ( I guess there is the CC VR6 4motion) I do not think the Golf should be more expensive than a Jetta.

Let's face it, most cars are de-contented these days compared to 15-20 years ago. I was thinking today that my '96 Passat wagon was 21K new, sedan was similarly priced, and now you get a new one with many more features, much more complex mechanicals and electronics, and many more safety features for 24-26K. 1996 dollars were worth a bit more than 2011 dollars. And the new E-Class diesel is $52K with no options. My '93 300D was 46K new. The cost cutting has to be there somewhere.

Another thing: The Passat weighs 3,359 lbs., has 140 HP and 240 ft/lbs. torque. My '93 300D weighs 3,550 lbs, has 122 HP and 169 ft/lbs. Although it drives fine and cruises happily at 75-80 MPH on the highway, it's not quick. Even with 70 more ft/lbs and 18 more HP, I wonder if the Passat, especially with the DSG, will be kind of sluggish. The manual transmission may help overcome this. The new E-Class, on the other hand, weighs just over 4,000 lbs, but has 210 HP and 400 ft./lbs. And a 7-speed transmission. That car's probably pretty quick.

Just some food for thought.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Let's face it, most cars are de-contented these days compared to 15-20 years ago. I was thinking today that my '96 Passat wagon was 21K new, sedan was similarly priced, and now you get a new one with many more features, much more complex mechanicals and electronics, and many more safety features for 24-26K. 1996 dollars were worth a bit more than 2011 dollars. And the new E-Class diesel is $52K with no options. My '93 300D was 46K new. The cost cutting has to be there somewhere.

Another thing: The Passat weighs 3,359 lbs., has 140 HP and 240 ft/lbs. torque. My '93 300D weighs 3,550 lbs, has 122 HP and 169 ft/lbs. Although it drives fine and cruises happily at 75-80 MPH on the highway, it's not quick. Even with 70 more ft/lbs and 18 more HP, I wonder if the Passat, especially with the DSG, will be kind of sluggish. The manual transmission may help overcome this. The new E-Class, on the other hand, weighs just over 4,000 lbs, but has 210 HP and 400 ft./lbs. And a 7-speed transmission. That car's probably pretty quick.

Just some food for thought.

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Torque. nuff said

donDavide said:

I do not think the Golf should be more expensive than a Jetta.

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In general, I agree. The pricing should be (from low to high): hatchback, sedan, wagon. We have to keep in mind that the base sedan is not lower equipped than the base hatch.

What gets me though is as I look at new cars for my daughter, the price of the Golf and the JSW is less than $1000 US. I'm know she would rather have the Golf but the wagen is and will be much more functional.

A block heater is standard for Canadian Passats, from what I recall reading. I wonder if people can order one for the American cars? After all, it's not as if Vancouver is colder than North Dakota.

kjclow said:

In general, I agree. The pricing should be (from low to high): hatchback, sedan, wagon.
We have to keep in mind that the base sedan is not lower equipped than the base hatch.

What gets me though is as I look at new cars for my daughter,
the price of the Golf and the JSW is less than $1000 US.
I know she would rather have the Golf, but the wagen is and will be much more functional.

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Exactly why we both bought JSWs Did you get yours sans S/R also?
If so, another $1300 retail saved plus taxes and additional license fees over the years also.

Hope she's not too disappointed when she winds up with a JSW? After all, who's paying the bill?



D

kjclow said:

In general, I agree. The pricing should be (from low to high): hatchback, sedan, wagon. We have to keep in mind that the base sedan is not lower equipped than the base hatch.

What gets me though is as I look at new cars for my daughter, the price of the Golf and the JSW is less than $1000 US. I'm know she would rather have the Golf but the wagen is and will be much more functional.

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The lack of a price difference is due to the Golf being built in Germany while the Jetta is built in Mexico. The same problem exists with the Passat v Golf.

The solution is obvious, Golfs need to be made in Mexico or USA.

LRTDI said:

The lack of a price difference is due to the Golf being built in Germany while the Jetta is built in Mexico. The same problem exists with the Passat v Golf.

The solution is obvious, Golfs need to be made in Mexico or USA.

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Or Brazil

Derrel H Green said:

Exactly why we both bought JSWs Did you get yours sans S/R also?
If so, another $1300 retail saved plus taxes and additional license fees over the years also.

Hope she's not too disappointed when she winds up with a JSW? After all, who's paying the bill?



D

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No sun roof for me either. Only upgrade I went with was the DSG because my wife said she was told and her knees were too bad drive a manual. Of course in the two plus years of owning it, I think I have only let her put on about 15% of the miles. I guess that has to change now that school is starting back up and she will have the longer commute.

Not sure at this time how much I will have to help with the purchase. I need to start working on her student loans, now that she is out and landed a good teaching job.

donDavide said:

Or Brazil

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I was thinking the same thing. Most of the Mk IV Golfs were made in Brazil.