Which shocks for 02 Jetta TDI, standard suspension/springs?

I'm looking to replace the shocks on all four corners of my 02 Jetta TDI with 87k, and want the basic same ride and driving characteristics as when new. Not into any mods. I know shocks have been discussed ad-nauseum but I've done a lot of searching for input from MkIV Jetta drivers who have installed new shocks using the standard suspension/springs with no mods, but constantly find input from those who have lowered, modded, or use different springs, and only speak of sport/HD shocks. One of the reasons I bought the car was the balance of a surprisingly comfortable ride with good handling for a relatively small car. I like straight-line speed, but not into heavy cornering, or getting it on the track, so don't need nor want sport/HD shocks. Yeah, I'm getting older but certainly don't want the floaty feel of an old Caddy, Buick, or Olds. I simply want a reasonably comfy, non-jarring ride with good control on most road surfaces, as my car was when new. I like road feel, just not every little crack or dip. I make a lot of trips from Huntsville to Columbia, TN to visit a good friend, and the bridge joints on I-65 are awful, sometimes feeling like hitting a frost heave. So, I'm looking to make that experience a bit easier on myself and the car.

After reading many reviews, I've been considering OEM Sachs or Koni reds. If anyone out there has a car similar to mine and has installed new shocks on a standard suspension with no mods, I'd be interested in which shocks you installed and your input/suggestions.

DC

I agree with Koni Reds. Although by most people's standards they aren't firm, they will feel firmer than worn out stock shocks. I have them on my Wagon and like them better than any of the other 7 or so setups I've had on the car.

I've found that Optimal dampers ride closer to OE Sachs, and reasonably priced. My son has these on his Jetta Sedan: they're a bit too soft for my taste, but they ride very much like the car did new.

Shameless plug: Here's the set: http://www.idparts.com/oe-replacement-strut-shock-set-optimal-a4-p-4251.html

You should also replace mounts as they're worn out at this point, especially the fronts.

I've gone by what Peter says and I've always ended up happy.

I installed Koni Reds on the daughter's wagon. No real mods other than better real axle bushings. The car's ride is excellent. Her driving conditions are more harsh (city) than that which my wife and I face. I was satisfied enough in the ride/performance of these shocks that I ordered another set for the wife's Golf.

I have Koni STR.Ts on my Golf. No suspension mods here either (but better rear axle bushings). These are absolutely perfect for me, for my driving conditions. Sportier ride. Firm, but not harsh: I have another Golf with different sport shocks (no suspension mods), not Konis, and they are harsh (if I were in the city these would have been swapped out).

I also agree....Koni reds on my wifes 04 jetta provide the best balance between comfort and handling of any mk4 suspesion I've ever driven, period.
Oem from the dealer is another option that provides a really comfortable but slightly less firm ride.
Both of those options have held up really well after many miles.
Over the years we (our family has 5 mk4's currently on the road) have found many aftermarket struts/shocks simply do not last and/or are much too firm/harsh.

Down side to Koni's from what I have read is their tendency to rust in salt using states.
Due to the reviews I have seen, I would say stock or another equivalent.

Whether or not you agree that Konis have a problem with rusting, they have a lifetime warranty. And the OP is in Alabama, so I doubt it would be an issue regardless.

DCannon said:

I'm looking to replace the shocks on all four corners of my 02 Jetta TDI with 87k, and want the basic same ride and driving characteristics as when new.

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FWIW, I'm in your same boat and bought Bilstein B4 'comfort' shocks/struts - not the sport ones. Did the rears last weekend and may attempt the front today. Picked them for the same reason - looking for stock performance though they are advertised as 20% stiffer than stock.

Another option. Oem quality and ride.

http://www.metalmanparts.com/product.sc?productId=392&categoryId=40

I've found you get what you pay for....the cheaper "oem quality" struts don't last.
And Bilsteins are too harsh.
They all will rust eventualy but, my Koni reds are still in excellent condition after 5 yrs in a very high salt environment.
The best I've found to resist rust has been oem from the dealer and their prices weren't all that dear.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

Whether or not you agree that Konis have a problem with rusting, they have a lifetime warranty. And the OP is in Alabama, so I doubt it would be an issue regardless.

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Curious what the warranty replacement process is on the Koni's.

I have koni oranges with gli lowering springs and complete new suspension bushings and joints. Ride is really nice. Stiff on big dips otherwise really nice daily ride and handling. My wife doesn't mind the ride so it's not jarring but nicely responsive when u want to hit the turns. My buddy has koni golds that ride amazing but you have to dip into your pockets further then I wanted. No complaints with the oranges here.

eddieleephd said:

Curious what the warranty replacement process is on the Koni's.

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You send in your old shock(s) and if they find it/them to be defective they replace it/them. I encountered an issue in which I got a bad one right from the get-go; daughter's wagon so I submitted a request and paid up-front for a replacement (because I didn't have the car on-hand to pull the shock; and, I couldn't have the car for an extended period of time). Given that this was essentially a brand new shock (I'd installed it and had to send the car off with the daughter- I'd verified that things were safe, just had a clunking) I wasn't real happy with having to shell out for shipping (for return). Because there's nothing else that really compares I went ahead and got another set (for the wife's car). Figured I'd exhausted all of my bad luck.

Thanks for all the input. I really appreciate it.

In response to 03TDICommuter and the rest just as an FYI...
I put Bilstein B4 TCs in the rear about a month ago with new mounts, bolts, sleeves, and jounce bumpers, even though all those parts were still good (which I kept). Those factory rear shocks were completely shot and I could easily depress the shafts with one finger. The local VW specialty shop I've used for years, Johnson Foreign Auto, checked the suspension when I began noticing some tire cupping on relatively new Michelins, and the only issue they found was the front control arm bushings needing replacing, which they did. They also said the rear shocks were probably gone, and the fronts close behind. To combat the outside edge tire cupping, I ran the pressure at 34lbs all around until I could figure out which way to go with shocks. That's when I decided to try the TCs on the rear since it's an easy replacement and they weren't expensive. After installing the TCs, I forgot to set the rear tire pressure back to 28-30, so the ride was stiff and a bit harsh. After lowering the tire pressure, it's a better ride, but still a bit stiff. Not harsh, just stiffer than I remember the ride when new. I'm afraid the TCs all around would be a bit too stiff for my taste.

There's no way I want to tackle installing front struts, so will have Johnson Foreign Auto do it when I decide which way to go. Jay, the owner, said most of the shock replacements they do on the MkIV are the Sachs OEM, but have done several Konis, Bilsteins, and other brands. He agreed with most people here that the Billys are inherently stiffer than other shocks, but last quite a while. I read about Konis rusting, but as mentioned, I'm in north Alabama where it may snow on occasion, but rarely enough to deal with salt. I'm from Chicago and know all about that scenario. I do like the idea of the Koni lifetime warranty and the ability to dial in the firmness on the reds as they age. I would probably go with the reds at full soft or possibly 1/4 turn in.

Leaning toward Koni reds but still thinking about which way to go. Considering labor cost for the fronts, I only want to do this one time. Again, appreciate all the input.

DC

DCannon said:

I'm afraid the TCs all around would be a bit too stiff for my taste.

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I'll let you know tomorrow how different it feels. I did put the front struts in today, I also used PowerFlex purple strut mounts which is supposed to not increase harshness but really tighten up the steering response.

03TDICommuter said:

I'll let you know tomorrow how different it feels. I did put the front struts in today, I also used PowerFlex purple strut mounts which is supposed to not increase harshness but really tighten up the steering response.

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Definitely stiffer - with the old strut the front felt floaty. Not floaty anymore. The new strut mounts + new struts raised the front I'd estimate about an inch and a half (old mounts were quite compressed). Steering is noticeably better/precise with the new mounts.

But yeah - you wouldn't like these. On bad roads it's jarring. On the freeway it's pretty nice until you reach a bad section with lifted expansion joints. FWIW, the powerflex mounts did not add any additiona cabin noise that I can tell.

I'll make this additional notes on shocks, and that's that if you haul a bunch of weight (people and or cargo) then harsher shocks may be just fine.

I often make trips to pick up feed -about 500 lbs- and I notice that with that kind of weight in the rear of my car with the Bilstein HDs that it does ride nicely (I just don't run around like this very often, so the general rule is a jarring ride- can't wait to get my car, with the Koni STR.Ts back). My 3/4 ton pickup also rides a lot better with weight in the bed!

03TDICommuter said:

Definitely stiffer - with the old strut the front felt floaty. Not floaty anymore. The new strut mounts + new struts raised the front I'd estimate about an inch and a half (old mounts were quite compressed). Steering is noticeably better/precise with the new mounts.

But yeah - you wouldn't like these. On bad roads it's jarring. On the freeway it's pretty nice until you reach a bad section with lifted expansion joints. FWIW, the powerflex mounts did not add any additiona cabin noise that I can tell.

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Many years ago a Forum member named Peter (not me) did a careful analysis of ride quality of various replacement dampers. His motivation was his unhappiness with the ride quality of Bilstein TC replacement dampers. He was driving in San Francisco, where there are a lot of concrete freeways with expansion joints. His conclusion was that Koni Reds, which at that time were just coming available for MKIV cars, offered a better ride/handling compromise. I agree.

But keep in mind that ride quality and what people do and don't like is extremely subjective. We talked with a customer today that felt his Jetta Wagon with Koni Reds felt too soft. He was replacing Bilstein HDs. I had HDs in my Jetta Wagon, couldn't stand them, and was thrilled to replace them with Koni Reds. To each his or her own.

03TDICommuter said:

Definitely stiffer - with the old strut the front felt floaty. Not floaty anymore. The new strut mounts + new struts raised the front I'd estimate about an inch and a half (old mounts were quite compressed). Steering is noticeably better/precise with the new mounts.

But yeah - you wouldn't like these. On bad roads it's jarring. On the freeway it's pretty nice until you reach a bad section with lifted expansion joints. FWIW, the powerflex mounts did not add any additiona cabin noise that I can tell.

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Thanks for the update. Your account of the TCs is exactly what I'm experiencing in the rear of my car with the new TCs. Fine on the freeway, and even good over some rr tracks, but jarring on the many consistent bad sections of road around here. Glad to hear you're no longer floating and steering is more precise, but a 1.5" rise in the front...wow. Actually, considering I've torn the front bumper nearly off a couple times by overshooting a high parking curb or a concrete tire stop, I'd welcome the front end being a bit higher.

BTW, what tires and pressure are you running? Did you do a realignment after installing the new fronts?

DCannon said:

but a 1.5" rise in the front...wow. Actually, considering I've torn the front bumper nearly off a couple times by overshooting a high parking curb or a concrete tire stop, I'd welcome the front end being a bit higher.
BTW, what tires and pressure are you running? Did you do a realignment after installing the new fronts?

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the old strut mounts probably squished down at least 1/2". Also I've read that these struts will sit higher for a while as 'they loosen up'. . . . . The same thing happened with the rear but not as much - maybe almost an inch.

Yes, I checked alignment the way I usually do - stripe the tires with ball point pen, measure front and back distance between tires with tape measure with the wife helping. Was 1/4" toe out, now zero toe. The key is to put the car on ramps with 2 linoleum tiles under each front tire with folded trash bags between the tiles. Works really well as a slip pad. Weight of car is on the tires/ramps but the steering is pretty free so I can crawl under, make adjustments, immediately measure the change and repeat without having to jack the car up again.

Tires are a rebranded Sumitomo (Doral), 38psi front, 35psi back. Going to reduce the pressures and see if it helps. When I wrote to you today I hadn't yet driven the bad section of freeway near my house. Oh dear - it's bad. It's like Bilstein are the opposite from what I've read about the koni FSD's. The Bilsteins are good for low frequency stuff but too hard on high. I'll give these 1000 miles and then decide if I'll go back to something OEM'ish (Sachs/Boge)

I am running a fairly stiff set at the moment, however, I wanted lift and also increased the spring height in the rear.
I have the Bilstein HD front and rear with VR6 springs in front and custom dual rate springs in the rear.
I do drive a wagon so the ride isn't as stiff as it would be on a sedan

I do commonly drive with between 75 and 100 pounds in the rear end and have been pulling a trailer cross country.

I would equate the ride to a sports car and not a family car, or grandmas car.
It steers well and I like the ride.

As uhoh said, it's all preference and there's no way to tell until you try it out on the ride.

Springs make a big difference also.
I wouldn't expect the shock mounts to make much of a difference in ride.

Tire pressure and profile definitely make a much greater difference in ride quality comparatively.

Took a look at Sachs offerings. I see struts and shocks for 'Mexico' cars and 'German' cars. The ECS set looks to be 'German'

Guessing 'Mexico' is USA tuned softer suspension, and 'German' is stiffer.

Maybe see if you can track down local folks with cars having shocks you're considering and check ride quality?

I've offered to allow folks to test Bilstein HD shocks and Koni STR.Ts on my cars. I have nearly identical cars with a set of each. I'll soon have Koni Reds to add to this comparative mix.

At this time there is only one car with the Reds, and it's a wagon- not a perfect match to our (four other) Golfs. BUT, my driving experience and experience riding as a passenger up in Vancouver (crappy roads) is that they provide an excellent ride. Again, Peter's (IBW) comments are dead-on. I don't make it a habit to promote stuff, but in this case, and despite having experienced a defective shock, I am very confident that these shocks will deliver a superior ride performance (only thing better might be the Koni Golds); and, really, given the additional cost of these shocks they OUGHT to be superior. NOTE: I'm shelling out some money on SEVENTEEN year-old cars, one would wonder why- I'm doing it because I like ride quality (and I'm subjecting my wife to this old of a car, and a manual trans to boot!).

I find roads in Southern CA deceptive: They look pretty good compared to roads in the Northeast, but there are a lot of expansion joints, cracked or broken concrete, speed bumps, drainage areas, Botts' dots, and other things that tax suspension. Bilsteins are higher pressure gas than the gas pressurized Konis (Reds are hydraulic), and seem to transmit more of that small bump harshness to the car's cabin.

After talking more with the owner of the VW shop who has installed a lot of Sachs on MkIVs with no complaints or problems, and someone I've known a long time and knows me, my driving habits, and likes/dislikes, he still suggests the Sachs. So I've decided to stay relatively stock and go with the Sachs for no more driving than I do per year. And after more research, I discovered the blue label Sachs are the 'Super Touring' OE replacement manufactured in Germany, while the red label are considered OE shocks manufactured in Mexico. My Jetta was manufactured in Mexico and guessing the original struts/shocks were manufactured in Mexico. He installs the blue label which may be a bit stiffer than the red label, but have no idea, so we'll see. Having the work done next Tues, so will update my findings here after driving it for a few days. It will be interesting to see how the German Sachs in front, and Bilstein TCs in rear mix in the overall ride/handling.

Something I just found online from CariD Sachs FAQ: Super Touring shocks and struts provide OE quality like new ride, control, fit and endurance and closely restores original handling dynamics.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I find roads in Southern CA deceptive: They look pretty good compared to roads in the Northeast, but there are a lot of expansion joints, cracked or broken concrete, speed bumps, drainage areas, Botts' dots, and other things that tax suspension. Bilsteins are higher pressure gas than the gas pressurized Konis (Reds are hydraulic), and seem to transmit more of that small bump harshness to the car's cabin.

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My commute today I have to say was actually pretty nice. Not sure if it's due to settling in (?) or my butt was less sensitive today. Certainly below 40mph it's nice. At 65mph still okay but more bumps felt. 80mph which everyone drives when things are flowing smoothly - bumpy, feel everything. Not horrible except on washboard surfaces. I'll keep driving for a while and see if it gets better. FWIW, I did the rear shocks 1 week prior to the front struts. Original OEM fronts with B4 TC comforts in the back were not a whole lot different than stock so if I do get something different I'll start with the fronts.

DCannon said:

I discovered the blue label Sachs are the 'Super Touring' OE replacement manufactured in Germany, while the red label are considered OE shocks manufactured in Mexico.
Something I just found online from CariD Sachs FAQ: Super Touring shocks and struts provide OE quality like new ride, control, fit and endurance and closely restores original handling dynamics.

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I was just trying to figure this out last night. ECS has the blue label ones. The 'Mexico' ones I thought had to do with the car's county of manufacturing(?). They are less expensive than the blue label ones.

I'm interested in hearing how you like them.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I find roads in Southern CA deceptive: They look pretty good compared to roads in the Northeast, but there are a lot of expansion joints, cracked or broken concrete, speed bumps, drainage areas, Botts' dots, and other things that tax suspension. Bilsteins are higher pressure gas than the gas pressurized Konis (Reds are hydraulic), and seem to transmit more of that small bump harshness to the car's cabin.

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Very true about SoCal driving!
Also, it's a moving target because just when you think you've figured out the road
it will be re-paved and a whole new set of conditions will apply.
That is, until the next earthquake, flood or fire!

BTW, the Koni yellows/ Shine springs are my choice for our Jetta wagon.
Still like them a lot after about 4 years.

Seems to me that the Koni Reds are expensive due to features such as "adjustable and rebuildable". I doubt most would adjust after installing and would not go to the trouble to rebuild them when needed. So I just decided to go with the Bilstein Touring (not sport version) for half the cost of the Koni Reds. Also the suspension bushings have a big impact on ride quality, maybe more so than the shocks.

03TDICommuter said:

80mph which everyone drives when things are flowing smoothly - bumpy, feel everything. Not horrible except on washboard surfaces.

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Some years ago I found that around 95-100 miles an hour any washboard surface smooths right out.
Realized this in an old Nova driving down some of the most washboard dirt roads on the Taos Mesa in New Mexico.

I had a guy offer to race me to the asphalt, to which I replied, "do you really want to lose your car?"

He thought that his little cars agility on the desert would beat me out until I told him that I would be running 100 MPH on the 6 mile straight away.

eddieleephd said:

Some years ago I found that around 95-100 miles an hour any washboard surface smooths right out.

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I'll have to give it a try and let you know I know with horses they get much smoother the faster their gait

03TDICommuter said:

I'm interested in hearing how you like them.

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Will do. BTW, maybe the TCs on the rear are starting to settle in, or I'm just not concentrating on it as much, but the ride is feeling better. I've put about 600mi on the TCs.