NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation

chummer

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My response to "It was bad Diesel fuel, we're covering it" would have been "Can I see the test results?"

This sounds like a classic "it's not our fault and it's not your fault, but it's really our fault".

That's what the NHTSA asked for when I reported my problem, I gaved her my service advisor name and number at Audi.

Updated on the car, he gave me a call this morning saying my car will be finish tomorrow some time.
 

kjclow

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that's a quick turn around for bad fuel and a failed fuel pump.
 

DEZLBOY

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that's a quick turn around for bad fuel and a failed fuel pump.
VW and Audi parts warehouses are stocking up on the needed materials, and at least one VW mechanic per dealer is attending a one week course on diagnosing and repairing such failures. :eek:
 

dweisel

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dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
VW and Audi parts warehouses are stocking up on the needed materials, and at least one VW mechanic per dealer is attending a one week course on diagnosing and repairing such failures. :eek:
Seems like a lot of trouble to go through with a measly 1 percent failure rate.
 

kjclow

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Just another example of that "We at VW really care, yes we really do".
Or that VW knows they really do have a problem and find this an easier (cheaper) way to deal with it rather then admitting to it.
 

eddif

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VW and Audi parts warehouses are stocking up on the needed materials, and at least one VW mechanic per dealer is attending a one week course on diagnosing and repairing such failures. :eek:
Seems like a lot of trouble to go through with a measly 1 percent failure rate.
Or that VW knows they really do have a problem and find this an easier (cheaper) way to deal with it rather then admitting to it.
LOL
++++++
It appears that there will come a day when the fuel system repair is totally on the owners. The PD owners, on a regular basis, replace cams, followers and bearings. There was a time when a great cry went up about there only being a few PD failures. No one talks about how few the failures are now, and several folks are on their 2nd failure (about as many as the first time failures at the start of the PD issue / coversation).

I feel it is time to totally develop parts and procedures for the coming problems. I have been guilty of working on my PD lately, rather than continuing on the CR filtering design (sorry). Just two adapters and a filter should take an $8,000 USD CR failure and turn it into a $2,000 USD failure. Not good by any description, but an option.

If everyone continues to wait on a VW solution, it appears that your replacement cost will be steep when warranty is out. If the CR has a 2nd failure the cost will just about cause owners to scrap the cars.

I like VWs, and they are worth effort being poured into them. You just have to relax, admit the problems, and deal with the issues. Denial and anger will not help. The joy of a reasonable repair that helps us drive a diesel can overcome a lot of pain. The HPFP still needs club input. A lot of good ideas are just sitting there in the hopes of VW coming through with a solution. If the safety issue does not force VW to repair all cars the failure rate may really increase. Just the number of failures from an accidental mis-fueling can be high.

Those three posts above hint that the VW solution will be on owners dime soon.

The terrible, realist, redneck, shadetree, jerk from Mississippi

eddif
 

thebigarniedog

Master of the Obvious
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Fail Command (Central Ohio)
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LOL
++++++
It appears that there will come a day when the fuel system repair is totally on the owners. The PD owners, on a regular basis, replace cams, followers and bearings. There was a time when a great cry went up about there only being a few PD failures. No one talks about how few the failures are now, and several folks are on their 2nd failure (about as many as the first time failures at the start of the PD issue / coversation).

I feel it is time to totally develop parts and procedures for the coming problems. I have been guilty of working on my PD lately, rather than continuing on the CR filtering design (sorry). Just two adapters and a filter should take an $8,000 USD CR failure and turn it into a $2,000 USD failure. Not good by any description, but an option.

If everyone continues to wait on a VW solution, it appears that your replacement cost will be steep when warranty is out. If the CR has a 2nd failure the cost will just about cause owners to scrap the cars.

I like VWs, and they are worth effort being poured into them. You just have to relax, admit the problems, and deal with the issues. Denial and anger will not help. The joy of a reasonable repair that helps us drive a diesel can overcome a lot of pain. The HPFP still needs club input. A lot of good ideas are just sitting there in the hopes of VW coming through with a solution. If the safety issue does not force VW to repair all cars the failure rate may really increase. Just the number of failures from an accidental mis-fueling can be high.

Those three posts above hint that the VW solution will be on owners dime soon.

The terrible, realist, redneck, shadetree, jerk from Mississippi

eddif
Not a doubt in my mind that VW intends to stonewall this and as you wrote there is a good reason why that strategy will work (again). Consider how long a typical American owns a car and also what is the "believed" mileage lifespan by such individual?

My guess is that they assume Americans will replace their car every three years and prior to 100,000 miles and therefore most people will never notice anything (nor give a rat's arse as demonstrated in this and in other threads, because "it didn't happen too them so why should they care").

Heck, a bunch of people even on this website have/are/planning on getting rid of their 2009 tdi Jettas for the next VW tdi model :confused:. From a business perspective, VW simply has no financial interest in your owning a car that has 200,000 miles on it. So pass out the Jelly if you do not fit into their ownership model :eek: ......
 

dubStrom

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Not a doubt in my mind that VW intends to stonewall this and as you wrote there is a good reason why that strategy will work (again). Consider how long a typical American owns a car and also what is the "believed" mileage lifespan by such individual?

My guess is that they assume Americans will replace their car every three years and prior to 100,000 miles and therefore most people will never notice anything (nor give a rat's arse as demonstrated in this and in other threads, because "it didn't happen too them so why should they care").

Heck, a bunch of people even on this website have/are/planning on getting rid of their 2009 tdi Jettas for the next VW tdi model :confused:. From a business perspective, VW simply has no financial interest in your owning a car that has 200,000 miles on it. So pass out the Jelly if you do not fit into their ownership model :eek: ......
oooo. That's gonna smart.:rolleyes:
 

jbright

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I don't think the HPFP problem is fixed yet and VW keeps making more cars and models containing this part and selling them to an ever expanding customer base. Just ignore the issue? What happens to a snowball as it rolls down the mountain? Should be interesting. Are you feeling lucky, VW.....well, are you?
 

DEZLBOY

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I don't think the HPFP problem is fixed yet and VW keeps making more cars and models containing this part and selling them to an ever expanding customer base. Just ignore the issue? What happens to a snowball as it rolls down the mountain? Should be interesting. Are you feeling lucky, VW.....well, are you?
Agreed. And while that "buyer beware" attitude does apply to every auto manufacturer to some extent or the other, it is apparent that VW has neglected to inform their customers of the issue at hand.

If I was selling my Golf, I would tell potentional sellers any ongoing issues. I expect the same from an auto manufacturer. Too much to expect? Likely.

But, never the less it pisses me off. Will my next car be a VW? I don't know. I love my car. But it's doubtful that I can knowingly support the VW corporation. Remember the New Beetle had some issue when it came on the market (something with the seats?). VW handled the repairs above board and gave each owner $50 - or some type of credit. I guess, when the press isn't looking, it's easier to hide under the rug.
 

El Dobro

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When people I know ask about buying a VW, I tell them my experiences with VW and let them make the decision. If it's people that don't work on their own car at all, I tell them don't buy a VW. I just don't want anyone coming back to me and saying why didn't I tell them this or that.
 

tico27464

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<snip>I like VWs, and they are worth effort being poured into them. You just have to relax, admit the problems, and deal with the issues. Denial and anger will not help. The joy of a reasonable repair that helps us drive a diesel can overcome a lot of pain. The HPFP still needs club input. A lot of good ideas are just sitting there in the hopes of VW coming through with a solution. If the safety issue does not force VW to repair all cars the failure rate may really increase. Just the number of failures from an accidental mis-fueling can be high.

Those three posts above hint that the VW solution will be on owners dime soon.
<snip>

eddif
All good points, even those snipped. My fear is that they may have rushed this to market too soon and that there may really never be a cost-effective solution. I bought this car going into it knowing it's no Hondoyota in terms of plug 'n' play, and realized up front maintenance and repair are likely more expensive, playing the odds. But a multi-thousand dollar repair that, barring a permanent fix (or upgrade in US diesel, which is even less likely), may well have a high probability of occurrence, really stales me on the car sometimes. I bought this thing to last, at least 200K, and even with a GEICO 7yr/100k extended warranty, I fear the inevitable. If a car worth, say, $12K, craps out on you at 60K or 100K mi leaving you with a $5-7K or whatever repair, unless you're made of money, it ipso facto becomes a disposable car. So unfortunate, as I really like practically everything else about it. But I'm a one-car household and depend on it, so there's little room for error. I really wish I had done more homework before purchase. Now I know. Such is life, I guess.
~T
 

Thunderstruck

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And that's the reason I'm out car shopping. Love the mileage, love the torque, hate VW with a passion. If they can't get their **** together, I'll jump ship. Really don't need the constant worry of a car that could be a ticking 5 figure repair bill in my parking spot.
 

CedarPark68

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I am not worried... we have VW 'branded' extended coverage.... the car is awesome.

HOWEVER

We are at 15k miles... come 32k.... if times are good, we may just opt for a new TDI ... perhaps the Passat, perhaps another JSW.
I'll be on the 3rd or 4th rev of the HPFP and will be in a new ride..
 

740GLE

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VW will love you for that!
 

EJS

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.............My guess is that they assume Americans will replace their car every three years and prior to 100,000 miles and therefore most people will never notice anything....................
No info on number of owners but the average age of cars on US roads is 9 years. That may have even gone up given the economy (IIRC the stat was from '08/'09).

Somebody is apt to get burned.
 

kjclow

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And that's the reason I'm out car shopping. Love the mileage, love the torque, hate VW with a passion. If they can't get their **** together, I'll jump ship. Really don't need the constant worry of a car that could be a ticking 5 figure repair bill in my parking spot.
If it's a four door golf, give me a shout when you want to get out from under the hpfp cloud. I run my life by the philosophy, "If it happens, I'll take care of it but don't waste the effort worrying about tomorrow."

I try to be informed but am not going to get rid of my jsw based on "what if..."
 

tcp_ip_dude

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If it's a four door golf, give me a shout when you want to get out from under the hpfp cloud. I run my life by the philosophy, "If it happens, I'll take care of it but don't waste the effort worrying about tomorrow."

I try to be informed but am not going to get rid of my jsw based on "what if..."
^^ +1 on that philosophy. My personal version is: "it's not a problem until it's a problem". Never seen so many Chicken Little's.
 

Harvieux

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^^ +1 on that philosophy. My personal version is: "it's not a problem until it's a problem". Never seen so many Chicken Little's.
Yea, it's not a problem until someone such as myself sells one of these ticking time bombs to a customer who happens to experience a failure and then discovers how much I knew about this fiasco from the get go. Now what?:rolleyes:

Would the naysayers or sheep of this venue come to my defense in such a situation? Or, would that sheep mentality now turn to a, "how TF could you do such and be able to sleep at night?" :rolleyes:

I was recently tempted to buy a 2010 TDI cup series with only 19K and manual trans. until I discovered it was in a minor previous accident. Though I was tempted, I think I may have still refused to actually pull the trigger due to the above specified scenario. Later!
 

thebigarniedog

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kjclow

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About 64 months for new cars (on the upswing most likely because of what did occur in 2008), give or take is the average per the above article .....
One thing the article doesn't address is that many companies are either keeping fleet cars longer or using an allowence for the employee to purchase their own car. In the years, I've been with my employeer, we've gone from a replacement mileage of 50,000 miles to 80,000. Still for most of our fleet cars, that is still less than 24 months. Some of the companies I work with have changed to giving the employee $600 (US and Canadian) to purchase the car and insurance. Company still pays for gas and maintanence. The employee then determines how many miles he is comfortable with.
 

EJS

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LRTDI

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You gotta wonder if VW and their dealers hadn't stonewalled owners during the first year or so of this issue, whether so much negative publicity and dare I say it adverse media/internet momentum would have been created.

Sometimes taking control of a problem and quietly making it go away by taking care of it pays dividends.
 

ARBY

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..............and another reason to ONLY buy from a premium retailer.......Shell, 76, Chevron and so on. As you say it's a crap shoot and at least these guys should be OK.

Me? I use 76 mostly (52 Cetane, 480 lubricity) and Shell; Chevron in a pinch. So far so good.
Just because you buy from a 'major retailer' doesn't mean you're buying major retailer fuel. It depends based on the company but with some you can carry the branding and purchase your fuel from a jobber of your choosing. You have to go inside and ask.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Harvieux

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Just because you buy from a 'major retailer' doesn't mean you're buying major retailer fuel. It depends based on the company but with some you can carry the branding and purchase your fuel from a jobber of your choosing. You have to go inside and ask.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wow! I just noticed you now have a 2011 CR TDI. I would love to know the legal mind type decision that went into that one, eh? ;) Later!
 

OILPowered

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Yea, it's not a problem until someone such as myself sells one of these ticking time bombs to a customer who happens to experience a failure and then discovers how much I knew about this fiasco from the get go. Now what?:rolleyes:

Would the naysayers or sheep of this venue come to my defense in such a situation? Or, would that sheep mentality now turn to a, "how TF could you do such and be able to sleep at night?" :rolleyes:
I understand your choice of not selling a CR car to avoid potential customer issues with a possible HPFP failure. However, how much do you (or anyone else on this forum, expert or otherwise) know about the real cause? Poor tolerance for inadequate fuel does seem a likely cause of the failure, but there simply has not been enough evidence to support even this. It sounds like you have made the determination that all of the CR cars on the road will have their HPFP blow up. I doubt this will be the case.

And are you saying those who don't agree with your doom and gloom mentality are "sheep"? That's kinda silly.

Just sayin'...
 

chudzikb

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As I see it, and few probably care how I see it, it is a possiblity of failure. I had an 09 on order and somehow backed out, did not know how smart I was then. I clearly undestand my brilliance now! I have had 3 B-4's in the past, that all were deeply loved by me for their reliability as well as their faults. Then I got the current 3 MK IV TDI's. They all have some issues here and there, but, nothing that goes boom without serious neglect. It is that possiblity of it going boom just as the car is hitting its golden years around 100K, is what will keep me away. Most of us bought TDI's because they last and last, and then they keep going some more. Proper maintainance leads to a very long life for the previous generations of TDI's. Something beyond my control making the car fail seriously makes me crazy!

My friends think I am nuts saying I would hop in any one of my TDI's with exess of 200K on the clock and drive across the country, but, it is the truth. Maintainance is current, there are and will be no issues. That is what I and many on here expect from these cars, and that is where VW has let us down, sadly I might add. I seriously wish you guys with the new cars well. Not a day goes by that I feel bad for recommending a new one to a friend. I await the day that it fails, I will feel real bad...
 
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