DPF Emergency regeneration

k_harley

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Location
Lowell, MA
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI, 2005 Audi S4, 1997 Audi A4 Race car, 2004 Passat TDI 6MT 4motion
So I have a 2009 Jetta CR that has a DPF light on.

I followed the instructions that ross-tech has to do an emergency regenration at idle with no luck.

I login to security acces with 12233 OK

When I try to enter 21295 into Coding II, it does not accept it

I can still go to basic settings and click on EGR, and it apears to do a re-gen for a minute or two, but the DPF light stays on.

Currently the car has a bad turbo actuator which was the reason the DPF problem came about. Was driven for 150 miles or so like this.

What I was able to do is throw another smart actuator on from a space turbo just to clear the code out at idle to rule out the problem of the bad actuator.....no difference.

Anyone else have luck with a re-gen?

I also called ross-tech, made sure my software was current, etc. etc. and they said the directions are a bit "generic" and couldnt really offer any better ideas.

Thanks!
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
in order to do a regen at idle, EGR needs to work so does the actuator, right air ratio and increased flow and yada yada yada, so if you're "tricking" the ECU that everythings fine, the DPF won't be fully regen.

As for the coding not sure, never forced one.
 

k_harley

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Location
Lowell, MA
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI, 2005 Audi S4, 1997 Audi A4 Race car, 2004 Passat TDI 6MT 4motion
I thought about this too, and I agree that the ecu wants to see the right conditions for the re-gen.

BUT.....how much exhuast temp does the turbo add at idle, or the 1300 rpm the forced re-gen happens at? Im thinking little to none. I wasnt watching the MAP sensor, but Id guess a working turbo only does like 1050mbar at 1300 rpms no load.
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
Your estimate seems about right.

On the earlier A5s (not Common Rail) I would see from 150 to 220 mbar increase at 1400 rpm at full boost over the minimum boost value. The minimum spec was an 80mbar difference.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
All i can go off is what people have said and what i've read from the self study. People have noticed at idle (1000rpms) their boost being higher when doing a regen. So the actuator/egrs must be doing something.

Can you read the ash load of the DPF? after a certain point you can't force it into a regen and if you've driven it a 2-300 miles after it needed a regen you might have porked it.
 

maine09tdi

New member
Joined
Nov 1, 2011
Location
Maine
TDI
Jetta 2009 TDI
Just as an FYI, after fixing the turbo actuator (Thanks KMH) and driving the car like I stole it for 20 miles or so, the DPF cleared on it's own.

I had driven it probably ~300 miles with the light on before the turbo actuator was replaced but we couldn't see on VAG-COM the ash load. Those fields were blank, which was a little scary, but it all turned out good.

Thanks again to KMH for really getting creative and saving this owner a lot of cash over the dealer "Replace the whole turbo" philosophy. I definitely recommend them...
 

k_harley

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Location
Lowell, MA
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI, 2005 Audi S4, 1997 Audi A4 Race car, 2004 Passat TDI 6MT 4motion
Cool, sometimes things do fix themselves....well with a little help....haha

I could NOT find much info on the forced re-gen and all the info I got from ross-tech on the topic were pretty unhelpfull. The instructions seemed good and made sense, but just did not match what was availble in the ecu on this particular car. Reminded me of the old days of 1Z engines and their really dumb ecu's.

Im going to guess that the '10 and up ecu's might be on track with what info is out there.

And yes, I did have to custom fabricate a smart actuator from a PD turbo for this car. NOT easy, but it paid off!
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I have only ever done a manual regen on the CBEA while driving down the road, which is kind of a pain.
 

n1das

TDIClub Enthusiast, Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2002
Location
Nashua, NH, USA
TDI
2014 BMW 535xd ///M-Sport, 2012 BMW X5 Xdrive35d, former 3x TDI owner
I thought about this too, and I agree that the ecu wants to see the right conditions for the re-gen.
It may require the car to be driven to create all the right conditions to force a manual regen to occur. You might be able to force a manual regen while road testing it like oilhammer did.
 

VarmintSlayer

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2007
Location
Napanee, Ontario
TDI
2009 Trendline TDI 6spd manual Black
if i m not mistaken the egr need too work to regenerate the nox cat. My exhaust flapper has been out of commission for a long time, 2 years or so more or less.
 
Last edited:

k_harley

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Location
Lowell, MA
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI, 2005 Audi S4, 1997 Audi A4 Race car, 2004 Passat TDI 6MT 4motion
It may require the car to be driven to create all the right conditions to force a manual regen to occur. You might be able to force a manual regen while road testing it like oilhammer did.

No, this was NOT an option. The output test for block 03 (EGR) was not available at crusing.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
Just as an FYI, after fixing the turbo actuator (Thanks KMH) and driving the car like I stole it for 20 miles or so, the DPF cleared on it's own.

I had driven it probably ~300 miles with the light on before the turbo actuator was replaced but we couldn't see on VAG-COM the ash load. Those fields were blank, which was a little scary, but it all turned out good.

Thanks again to KMH for really getting creative and saving this owner a lot of cash over the dealer "Replace the whole turbo" philosophy. I definitely recommend them...

there is a thread over in the emissions folder about gaining the DPF ash loads from VCDS.
 

barshnik

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
2013 Passat SE w/roof, nav
Had my DPF light come on recently for the first time ever - happened with 56k miles. It stayed on for a couple days of driving, then did what the user manual said (drive at least 15 minutes at >2000 RPM in 4th or 5th gear (mine is a DSG, so stayed in manual mode on the highway.) After exactly 15 minutes, the DPF warning went away, and I haven't seen it since (900 miles). Weird.

Like others with the '09, I don't seem to be able to see much good stuff in VCDS.
 

barshnik

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
2013 Passat SE w/roof, nav
Had my DPF light come on recently for the first time ever - happened with 56k miles. It stayed on for a couple days of driving, then did what the user manual said (drive at least 15 minutes at >2000 RPM in 4th or 5th gear (mine is a DSG, so stayed in manual mode on the highway.) After exactly 15 minutes, the DPF warning went away, and I haven't seen it since (900 miles). Weird.

Like others with the '09, I don't seem to be able to see much good stuff in VCDS.
 

MacBuckeye

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2009 Jetta
VAGCOM has a few inputs for measuring DPF info. Maybe 5 or 6 that I know of. Everything from Oil Ash Volume, DPF Soot Load, Requested Regens, Temp Prior to DPF, etc.
Below is what I have for the Emergency Regen, BUT try making the car do it "naturally" by driving. 65 MPH, steady RPM's. Within about 15 miles or so the car will begin the regen process. Unless the DPF is really clogged or something else is wrong with the car.
To Activate a Regen
Select: 01 Engine
Coding-11
Enable regen by entering: 21295 ?????? CHECK WITH SOMEONE FIRST (is this for VW cars)
Measuring blocks – 08
Select both groups at once- 070 and 075.
Go!
Regeneration should begin.
Start the driving cycle. 2nd person should be there to help/monitor the system data in VCDS.
THERE MIGHT BE NEWER INSTRUCTIONS ON THIS!!

If anyone has DPF data from VAGCOM, we are tracking it in this thread:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=324067

Approaching 69K miles without ever seeing the DPF light! :)
 

MacBuckeye

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2009 Jetta
VAGCOM DPF info

Diesel Particulate Filter Information

Group 097 DPF Off-set

Group 099
DPF Temperatures: xx xx xx

Group 105
Requested regens: xx
Temp: xx
No Units: xx

Group 108 DPF
Oil Ash Volume: xx
Particle filter carbon mass (spec.): xx
Particle filter carbon mass (act.): xx

Group 240 Last Regen Information
Fuel Consumption since last regen: xx
Mileage since last regen: xx
Time elapsed since last regen: xx


Group 241 DPF Soot Load
DPF Oil Ash Volume: XXml
Soot Load (g) Calculated: XX
Soot Load (g) Measured: XX

I'm puzzled by how the car (or ECU) monitors/measures the Soot Load. It doesn't increase gradually, but increases in "chunks". For example, it might read 50 ml today at XX miles, then 58 ml at xxx miles. I have yet to see it increase from 50 to 51 or 50 to 52. I think the ECU takes a measurement reading at pre-determined intervals like every 8-10 K miles. Not really sure.
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
Diesel Particulate Filter Information

I'm puzzled by how the car (or ECU) monitors/measures the Soot Load. It doesn't increase gradually, but increases in "chunks". For example, it might read 50 ml today at XX miles, then 58 ml at xxx miles. I have yet to see it increase from 50 to 51 or 50 to 52. I think the ECU takes a measurement reading at pre-determined intervals like every 8-10 K miles. Not really sure.
I think it is a calculated value, not a measured value, based on fuel consumption, temperatures, and successful regens and other aspects of the operating profile.
I also think that ash volume is a calculated value.

It is very difficult to see what sensor system you could use to measure volume in this instance.
 

mcquinn

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 22, 1999
Location
Maryland usa
TDI
2002 MK4 automatic Jetta
error 31 with forced regen

MacBuckeye, I know this is an old thread, but I thought I'd post my question here because it fits with the regen thread. I tried to force a regen and the 21295 code was not accepted. It said error 31. The Ross Tech instructions said enter the codes and then drive on the highway. Is error 31 telling me that I needed to warm to car up before entering 21295? If anyone has an answer or suggestion, I would appreciate it. Thank you.

To Activate a Regen
Select: 01 Engine
Coding-11
Enable regen by entering: 21295 ?????? CHECK WITH SOMEONE FIRST (is this for VW cars)
Measuring blocks – 08
 

JSWTDI09

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
TDI
2009 JSW TDI (gone but not forgotten)
So I have a 2009 Jetta CR that has a DPF light on.

I followed the instructions that ross-tech has to do an emergency regenration at idle with no luck.

I login to security acces with 12233 OK

When I try to enter 21295 into Coding II, it does not accept it

I can still go to basic settings and click on EGR, and it apears to do a re-gen for a minute or two, but the DPF light stays on.

Currently the car has a bad turbo actuator which was the reason the DPF problem came about. Was driven for 150 miles or so like this.

What I was able to do is throw another smart actuator on from a space turbo just to clear the code out at idle to rule out the problem of the bad actuator.....no difference.

Anyone else have luck with a re-gen?

I also called ross-tech, made sure my software was current, etc. etc. and they said the directions are a bit "generic" and couldnt really offer any better ideas.

Thanks!
You are using the wrong procedure to initiate an emergency regeneration. This is why it is not working. See the following page: http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Diesel_Particle_Filter_Emergency_Regeneration

You are using the procedure for a European PD engine w/ DPF. Scroll down until you see the procedure for a "1.6L/2.0L R4 CR" engine. I'm a little surprised that the Ross-Tech guy didn't catch this.

Have Fun!

Don

P.S. When I read your post I knew it had to be wrong, because I was just in "coding II" yesterday and it only has 3 options:
Disable cruise control
Enable cruise control
Adapt new DPF differential pressure sensor (G450) (this is why I was just in this controller yesterday)
_
 
Last edited:

JSWTDI09

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
TDI
2009 JSW TDI (gone but not forgotten)
Diesel Particulate Filter Information

Group 097 DPF Off-set

Group 099
DPF Temperatures: xx xx xx

Group 105
Requested regens: xx
Temp: xx
No Units: xx

Group 108 DPF
Oil Ash Volume: xx
Particle filter carbon mass (spec.): xx
Particle filter carbon mass (act.): xx

Group 240 Last Regen Information
Fuel Consumption since last regen: xx
Mileage since last regen: xx
Time elapsed since last regen: xx


Group 241 DPF Soot Load
DPF Oil Ash Volume: XXml
Soot Load (g) Calculated: XX
Soot Load (g) Measured: XX
Thank you for the handy summation. I was just scrolling through these measuring blocks yesterday searching for all this information. I kinda stopped at about 200 because they were almost all blank and I thought I'd reached the end. I have printed out this post and put it into my VCDS computer (a little netbook) bag. Thanks again.

Have Fun!

Don
 

MacBuckeye

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2009 Jetta
"Advanced" Measuring Blocks

Another member showed me how to use "Advanced Measuring Blocks" to look up stuff. It shows a list of the various items you can measure/read. Find what you want from the list, check the box, and the data shows up in another window. Pretty cool. Might be easier than using "Measuring Blocks" and entering random numbers. I also created a "cheat sheet" I keep handy when running VAGCOM. Keeps me from guessing all those measuring block numbers. Try the Advanced Measuring Blocks... you might find it easier.
 

MacBuckeye

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2009 Jetta
Question about the Emergency Regen process and oil ash level.

After the dealership replaced my turbo (turbo failed, new turbo installed, then P00AF fault code) the dealership forced or performed an emergency regen.
My oil ash level went back to zero. It was at 138ml before and after the turbo failure.

My ?... does an emergency regen automatically reset the oil ash back to zero? Or do you have to reset it using VAGCOM? I still have the same/original DPF. If the oil ash level (reading) is zero, is this a good or bad thing? Does this mean the ECU will no longer know what the true or real oil ash content is? I've had several regens since I got my car back from the dealership. VAGCOM still shows the oil ash at 0 ml. The measured, calculated, miles driven, requested regens, etc. are functioning normally as far as I can tell. After a regen these values reset back to zero and then begin to climb/increase just as like normal.

Thoughts, questions, concerns, comments?
 

Andy_2009_JSW

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2008
Location
Atlanta, GA
TDI
2009 Jetta Sportwagen TDI (DSG)[SOLD BACK], 2012 Golf 2.5L Gasser (5MT), 2017 Alltrack S (6MT)
When I bought my car mine stayed at zero till after 10k miles or so. How many miles since the repair?
My thoughts are along these lines as well. If it's still zero after 10-15k miles, then whatever the ECU is using to arrive at this value might be broken. But that doesn't mean there's a fundamental issue with the DPF per se.

I'm curious if it pops back up to 130ml+, reports as 10ml or so (as if thinking it's starting from the beginning for whatever reason), or just stays at zero from here on out...
 

MacBuckeye

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2009 Jetta
I've only driven ~500-600 miles since the last repair. I'm also curious if it will jump back to 138 ml or just start increasing at the 10ml per 10k miles rate. I would think the pressure sensors would automatically sense the DPF oil ash volume and "calculate" it back to or close to the 138ml level.
Only time will tell. Will keep monitoring it closely.
 
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