Gelling issues in extreme cold

fbio · Dec 27, 2017

I've been driving bio for years, but just moved to Illinois and have been hit with the Polar Vortex. I was driving 50% bio with anti-gel additives when the temperature dropped to the low teens and I was parked outside. Car started but died in about a mile, I assume from crystals clogging the filter. I have an unheated garage, and of course, sometimes the car will be parked outside if I'm traveling or visiting friends. I'm also worried, with temperatures as low as -2, of gelling while I'm driving. I will probably go to 100% diesel as soon as I can, maybe even siphoning the fuel I have now.

What is the best solution? I've been looking at filter heater pads. I see that I can get a tank heater and filter heater that plug in, but I'm wondering, for safety, if I should have a 12V filter heater pad that can be running while the car is running. It is fairly easy to wire in to the wiring system of the car?

Thanks!

jmodge · Dec 27, 2017

We have been running regular pump diesel in ours with no heaters, parked outside. Have not had any issues, fired up this morn at 18 below. (knock on wood) I did drill the check valve out of the sending/pick up unit in the tank. I heard that was quite the issue back in the early days of mk4 tdi's

turbobrick240 · Dec 27, 2017

If you can dilute the bio-blend with about 50% kerosene, you can probably get by without siphoning/pumping any of the mix from the tank. A tank heater would help, but it might be easier to try a leaner blend- like b25 during the coldest weather.

MichaelB · Dec 27, 2017

If you are now living in Illinois almost all of the pump fuel is b11, might be as high as b20 but I doubt it. With this cold snap, we are experiencing your b50 blend is most likely candlewax by now unless the car is in a heated garage. Turbobrick's kerosene suggestion is your only hope as I doubt you could even drain the tank of b50 if the car is outside. You will most likely need to replace the fuel filter too.

jmodge · Dec 27, 2017

You could pull your sending unit out and see what you have. I remember a potatoe hauler from down south jelled up and cut the top off a beer can, filled it with stanadyne and dropped it in his fuel tank. It went to the bottom and he ended up getting his truck fired. Not likely bio fuel though. Come to think of it, Ask a farmer, they can usually solve anything.

maxmoo · Dec 27, 2017

With the milage these cars get and the relatively cheap cost of diesel, I don't think it's worth putting anything else in the tank....too many potential headaches.
But that's just my opinion.

JDSwan87 · Dec 27, 2017

maxmoo said:
With the milage these cars get and the relatively cheap cost of diesel, I don't think it's worth putting anything else in the tank....too many potential headaches.
But that's just my opinion.

Ding ding

MichaelB · Dec 27, 2017

JDSwan87 said:
Ding ding

Well,
I don't feel that helps the OP with his current fuel gelling issue. Ding, Ding doesn't help! Offer up immediate solutions or pass on by. How would you feel if you asked for help and got Ding, Ding?

2015vwgolfdiesel · Dec 27, 2017

fbio said:
I've been driving bio for years, but just moved to Illinois and have been hit with the Polar Vortex. I was driving 50% bio with anti-gel additives when the temperature dropped to the low teens and I was parked outside. Car started but died in about a mile, I assume from crystals clogging the filter. I have an unheated garage, and of course, sometimes the car will be parked outside if I'm traveling or visiting friends.

I'm also worried, with temperatures as low as -2, of gelling while I'm driving. I will probably go to 100% diesel as soon as I can, maybe even siphoning the fuel I have now.

What is the best solution? I've been looking at filter heater pads. I see that I can get a tank heater and filter heater that plug in, but I'm wondering, for safety, if I should have a 12V filter heater pad that can be running while the car is running. It is fairly easy to wire in to the wiring system of the car?
Thanks!

I do not know the solution. Best you can get the fuel out ASAP -- Then fill with 100 % diesel -- Good luck

UhOh · Dec 27, 2017

Need to narrow down where the blockage is and what is causing it. We can "assume" it's the fuel, but you've really got to prove it: it might be just the check valve in the pick-up (and perhaps not related to fuel), but we really cant' say for certain, in which case try the easiest diagnostic things first.

If fuel pulls fine from the tank then it'll most likely be an issue with your fuel filter. Of course, one could swap out the filter to determine, but I think pulling fuel from the tank is quicker.

Stick with D2.

2015vwgolfdiesel · Dec 27, 2017

^^^^^^^^^^

D2

Remember your beloved ride is on in years (and maybe miles too)

MichaelB · Dec 27, 2017

UhOh said:
Stick with D2.

Great advice but D2 is almost vaporware in Illinois. Better advice is to stick with pump fuel and not sweat the details. Illinois and Minnesota all have b something blends year round

We need someone from Illinois to chime in here.

scooperhsd · Dec 27, 2017

Start with PowerService 911 / Powerservice white. STOP USING BIO (except what you get from the pump) until spring after you empty this tank. I'd continue to using the Powerservice white for the rest of the winter.

MichaelB · Dec 27, 2017

scooperhsd said:
Start with PowerService 911 / Powerservice white. STOP USING BIO (except what you get from the pump) until spring after you empty this tank. I'd continue to use the Powerservice white for the rest of the winter.

Now we are getting somewhere

pdq import repair · Dec 27, 2017

If it is gelling, the best possible scenario is to put it inside and warm it up. They will usually fire right up after a that, if that is the problem. Once the fuel is liquid again, drain it out and refrain from non weatherized fuel till spring.

I have seen in cases where the vehicle can't be put inside, usually large trucks, where a small controlled fire is built under it to thaw it out. (old farmer trick)

joetdi · Dec 27, 2017

Do know someone with a heated garage you can use overnight?

UhOh · Dec 27, 2017

MichaelB said:
Great advice but D2 is almost vaporware in Illinois. Better advice is to stick with pump fuel and not sweat the details. Illinois and Minnesota all have b something blends year round We need someone from Illinois to chime in here.

Yikes! Sorry, I used old terminology. Correct terminology would be: No. 2-D S15

turbobrick240 · Dec 27, 2017

pdq import repair said:
I have seen in cases where the vehicle can't be put inside, usually large trucks, where a small controlled fire is built under it to thaw it out. (old farmer trick)

That's how I thaw out the hydraulics on my tractor when water gets into the system. I use a propane burner though. Might not be a great idea for a car parked on the side of the street

.

UhOh · Dec 27, 2017

People, please don't assume it's the fuel. As much as I dislike biodiesel I'm not ready to blame it at this point.

I had an instance in which I had a fuel blockage in one of my tractors that I can only believe to have been due to an ice pellet forming in the outlet from the tank: it happened last winter. Engine had been running and then quit. From then on it would start only for a few seconds and then die. I pulled the fuel line from the input side of the fuel filter and blew back toward the tank- initially felt an obstruction and then a quick drop in back pressure. I dumped in some Power Service White Bottle and didn't have another problem: I was pretty sure I didn't have debris in the tank (pretty new tractor); later on ran across a "Water In Fuel" condition, which then kind of supported my ice pellet theory- where the water came from is a complete unknown (I have a water filter on my fuel storage tank- none of my other vehicles have had any water issues- my other tractor has a clear filter bowl and no water showing up ever in that).

jettawreck · Dec 27, 2017

Minnesota reduces the mandated bio percentage in "winter" and most "winterized" pump fuel is well treated with additives for expected seasonal extremes. I'm sure different states depending on the expected temps and political/social attitudes have various policies.
I had -29*F at home this morning and it was officially -42*F between here and the Canadian border. My non-heated garage was a bit above 10F and the Jetta starts/runs fine. Been driving all over today. My main fuel source (Holiday) has the dates and treatment levels posted at the pump. Dec 15-Feb 1 it's treated for -40F, supposedly. A liberal dose of PowerService white bottle winter formula or Lucas anti-gell for good measure. I've had a few gelling "events" over the years and most of the time it was an unusual early cold spell with prior fuel in the tank, fuel from unfamiliar source, and a few random occurrences that may have been combinations of the above. I also have a CAT fuel filter and every gell event was in the filter (pickup unit modded/drilled many years ago). I think the finer filteration system either is a bit more prone to clogging up or the recirculation of warm return fuel thru it isn't as effective as the OEM unit. Perhaps, maybe.
Water in fuel is a very big real deal. Fuel may be "treated" for extreme cold but water freezes at relatively "normal" 32F/0*C. Not very cold at all. Ice in the fuel line is a deal breaker-game over until it's dealt with. A good additive designed to handle this on a regular basis is your best defense at keeping it out of your fuel system. Not going to promote a particular brand, turns into something like an oil thread....
If the OP can get the majority of the bio out of the tank (suggest finding warm place, pulling the pick up unit out and draining it thru the port) and add a 6 gallon can of straight #1 or kerosene (go to a real truck stop, they almost always have a pump for #1) and then fire it up and drive to fill up with seasonal "winterized" diesel fuel. Toss in a good dose of additive. Probably good time for new fuel filter. Should be good to go.

narongc73 · Dec 27, 2017

Wait until summer and stop using bio.

MichaelB · Dec 27, 2017

pdq import repair said:
I have seen in cases where the vehicle can't be put inside, usually large trucks, where a small controlled fire is built under it to thaw it out. (old farmer trick)

I had a friend years ago that drove heavy equipment ( Cats, scrapers, and whatever earth moving stuff. They would light a fire under the underside and eventually, it would fire up...........do you really suggest that with a passenger car?

MichaelB · Dec 27, 2017

jettawreck said:
Minnesota reduces the mandated bio percentage in "winter" and most "winterized" pump fuel is well treated with additives for expected seasonal extremes. I'm sure different states depending on the expected temps and political/social attitudes have various policies.
I had -29*F at home this morning and it was officially -42*F between here and the Canadian border. My non-heated garage was a bit above 10F and the Jetta starts/runs fine. Been driving all over today. My main fuel source (Holiday) has the dates and treatment levels posted at the pump. Dec 15-Feb 1 it's treated for -40F, supposedly. A liberal dose of PowerService white bottle winter formula or Lucas anti-gell for good measure. I've had a few gelling "events" over the years and most of the time it was an unusually early cold spell with prior fuel in the tank, fuel from the unfamiliar source, and a few random occurrences that may have been combinations of the above. I also have a CAT fuel filter and every gell event was in the filter (pickup unit modded/drilled many years ago). I think the finer filtration system either is a bit more prone to clogging up or the recirculation of warm return fuel thru it isn't as effective as the OEM unit. Perhaps, maybe.
Water in fuel is a very big real deal. Fuel may be "treated" for extreme cold but water freezes at relatively "normal" 32F/0*C. Not very cold at all. Ice in the fuel line is a deal breaker-game over until it's dealt with. A good additive designed to handle this on a regular basis is your best defense at keeping it out of your fuel system. Not going to promote a particular brand, turns into something like an oil thread....
If the OP can get the majority of the bio out of the tank (suggest finding warm place, pulling the pick up unit out and draining it thru the port) and add a 6 gallon can of straight #1 or kerosene (go to a real truck stop, they almost always have a pump for #1) and then fire it up and drive to fill up with seasonal "winterized" diesel fuel. Toss in a good dose of an additive. Probably the good time for a new fuel filter. Should be good to go.

You have been the most helpful so far....not explaining what the OP should not do but what he should do now.

AndyBees · Dec 27, 2017

I'm betting on the fuel filter being clogged with bio-diesel turned to wax....

I've used a propane torch on my MK1s back in the day, slightly going over various things to raise the temp above 32f.

In this case, I'd start with the fuel filter ..... flaming it ever so slightly. Then go to something else, such as the steel pressure lines from the IP head over to the top of the injectors.... flash the side of the IP head for split second, and so on! Considering the IP case is aluminum and very cold, I'd not flash it due to the possibility of cracking. And, the IP does contain seals and electrical parts (which can stand a lot of heat, BTW).

Do the flaming back and forth only allowing the flame to be in one spot for a couple of seconds. Do the procedure numerous times going back to the filter, etc., until things are warm inside.

At some point, with the torch off, you should pull the T out of the fuel filter and make sure it is full of fuel. Then, proceed to prime the system as no doubt the Injectors will need to be bled. (Warm fuel would be helpful too.)

The above procedures most likely will need to be repeated. However, the second go around can be hazardous due to any spilt diesel fuel..... take extreme caution!

Otherwise, the heated garage that has been suggested would be my next option. Pulling the fuel intake thingy from the fuel tank is a very messy procedure under the best conditions.

Side note: I've seen my neighbor do this procedure with his Diesel International tractor several times down through the years!

MichaelB · Dec 27, 2017

UhOh said:
People, please don't assume it's the fuel. As much as I dislike biodiesel I'm not ready to blame it at this point.
due to an ice pellet forming in the outlet from the tank: it happened last winter. Engine had been running and then quit. From then on it would start only for a few seconds and then die.

This is when you use Power Service 911

UhOh · Dec 27, 2017

MichaelB said:
This is when you use Power Service 911

IF one knows it's a fuel issue (not debris, something foreign to the fuel itself). As I'd stated earlier, first I'd look to uncork the line to the filter and blow back through it toward the tank (just as I did with my tractor).

Apologies if I get mixed up on the Power Service stuff (what the names of the bottles are- I think it's the white bottle that I got and used), as I have only ever had to use it the one time: some in the tank of the tractor and then the rest into my storage tank- the tank had summer fuel in it; I've now got a winter blend fuel in my storage tank, so I should be good (not require any additives).

MichaelB · Dec 27, 2017

AndyBees said:
Side note: I've seen my neighbor do this procedure with his Diesel International tractor several times down through the years!

Here we go again

.......a tractor, not a passenger car. The best option is a heated garage even if you have to have the car towed, then change the fuel filter and add the kerosene to the fuel. And motor on and use winterized pump fuel.

MichaelB · Dec 27, 2017

narongc73 said:
Wait until summer and stop using bio.

This is the most helpful post

give me a break!

MichaelB · Dec 27, 2017

UhOh said:
IF one knows it's a fuel issue (not debris, something foreign to the fuel itself).

I guess a normal person would assume that if it is below 0°F it was either gelled fuel or ice, not debris. PS 911 is just for ice as it contains alcohol, not something you want to add as a prophylactic just for an emergency to get you going PS white is an anti gell cetane boost and water displacement additive. Good stuff I may say and recommended for year-round use by DBW here on these forums.

AndyBees · Dec 27, 2017

MichaelB, did you read all of my post?

Did you see where others mentioned farmers and their Tractors?

It ain't here we go again, it's an idea to consider since the car appears to be somewhere a mile away from the OPs home on the side of the road and he said no heated garage is available.

I bet I could have it running right there on the side of the road in less than hour!

(bio-diesel and temps in the teens........ no rocket science here)

My bet still stands,,,

Gelling issues in extreme cold

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