Finishing my B4 - the "Family Vacation Package"

thechoochlyman

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Campbellsville, Kentucky
TDI
1997 B4 Sedan
Right now I'm sitting on 185k miles and will be doing all my scheduled maintenance soon - Oil change, Timing belt, water pump, and thermostat. We're thinking about taking a trip to Florida to visit family later this year, and have discussed the possibility of taking everyone (all five of us) in my car, towing a little cargo trailer behind. Right now my car rides pretty darn low with that many people inside, plus the fact that I keep all kinds of tools and spare parts in the trunk.

Here are the current upgrades I've made that are relevant to this goal:
  • Boost gauge
  • Stage III Malone tune
  • All struts replaced about 43k miles ago

And my work list:
  • HD Wagon rear springs
  • Pyrometer Installation
  • Build and install Trailer hitch (already contacted TDIDaveNH for drawings)
  • New brake master cylinder? (Brake pedal has bit of travel before engagement, brake pedal is rather stiff in comparison with other vehicles)
  • Wire trailer lights

Anybody have suggestions for me?
 

tdidieselbobny

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Location
Stafford,NY (WNY)
TDI
'03 Galactic Blue Jetta TDI, '15 Silk Blue Golf Sportwagen TDI
I don't know how you plan on wiring your trailer lights, but I suggest looking up how TDIDaveNH did it-I believe there is a how-to. Get one of those inline fuses to attach directly to battery and run wire to trunk. I already sold my setup to another member after I totalled my B4.
 

sandmansans

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Location
NJ/PA
TDI
2014 Jetta
Right now I'm sitting on 185k miles and will be doing all my scheduled maintenance soon - Oil change, Timing belt, water pump, and thermostat. We're thinking about taking a trip to Florida to visit family later this year, and have discussed the possibility of taking everyone (all five of us) in my car, towing a little cargo trailer behind. Right now my car rides pretty darn low with that many people inside, plus the fact that I keep all kinds of tools and spare parts in the trunk.

Here are the current upgrades I've made that are relevant to this goal:
  • Boost gauge
  • Stage III Malone tune
  • All struts replaced about 43k miles ago

And my work list:
  • HD Wagon rear springs
  • Pyrometer Installation
  • Build and install Trailer hitch (already contacted TDIDaveNH for drawings)
  • New brake master cylinder? (Brake pedal has bit of travel before engagement, brake pedal is rather stiff in comparison with other vehicles)
  • Wire trailer lights

Anybody have suggestions for me?
In addition to and or as an alternative, I'd consider airlift airbags. You can adjust the height and firmness as needed. Fully inflated the car won't even budge or bring it down to around 5 psi for a normal ride.
Also I'd consider getting rv /tow mirrors for the car.

Last I'd also look into upgrading the cooling system if possible. 5 humans + trailer is a lot to handle. Especially if driving for a distance.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
 

thechoochlyman

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Campbellsville, Kentucky
TDI
1997 B4 Sedan
Last I'd also look into upgrading the cooling system if possible. 5 humans + trailer is a lot to handle. Especially if driving for a distance.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
Thanks for reminding me - actually, my slave fan pulley broke last summer and I never fixed it. I figured out that the Cabrio I'm parting out has some compatabilty there, so hopefully I can fix it with those parts. Still haven't had any trouble with overheating though, and October should be a cool month.

I don't know how you plan on wiring your trailer lights, but I suggest looking up how TDIDaveNH did it-I believe there is a how-to. Get one of those inline fuses to attach directly to battery and run wire to trunk. I already sold my setup to another member after I totalled my B4.
Thanks! Great idea. Always a good idea to follow in Dave's footsteps.

I suspect the HD wagon springs will be too much for your sedan.

Check with Abacus. He had standard duty wagon springs on one of his sedans.

I still have my old standard duty wagon springs if you decide to use them, send me a p.m.
I'll have to ask him about it....

Why do you think it will be too much? Too stiff of a ride? I already carry 100+ pounds of stuff in my trunk every day.

I've been considering other alternatives as well - maybe one of these,


Or a roof rack. The idea is that I'll machine some small tapped blocks to attach into the rain channel of my car with self-tapping screws, then fabricate my own aluminum-framed rack that can span the entire length and width of the top. I really hate the idea of those clamp-only designs, seems sketchy. And expensive!
 
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thechoochlyman

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Campbellsville, Kentucky
TDI
1997 B4 Sedan
To finish up my last idea:
Make four of these tapped brackets,



...and mount two on each side of the car in these locations.





I could fill up the area around them with windshield urethane.
 

john.jackson9213

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Location
Miramar, Ca. (Think Top Gun)
TDI
1996 B4V
I installed H.D. rear springs on my wagon. It pushed the rear end up in the air a bit more than I like. But I don't normally have anything in the back of the wagon and never got around to putting a trailer hitch on the wagon.

Instead I decided to go with a TDI engine in a Jeep Comanche pickup truck. That will give me all the utility of a mid size pick up truck and 30+ mpg on a long vacation trip over the Alaska Highway I have been wanting to do for decades... Even got a Wildernest camper shell for the truck. Has a fold out tent on the top of the shell.
 

thechoochlyman

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Campbellsville, Kentucky
TDI
1997 B4 Sedan
I installed H.D. rear springs on my wagon. It pushed the rear end up in the air a bit more than I like. But I don't normally have anything in the back of the wagon and never got around to putting a trailer hitch on the wagon.

Instead I decided to go with a TDI engine in a Jeep Comanche pickup truck. That will give me all the utility of a mid size pick up truck and 30+ mpg on a long vacation trip over the Alaska Highway I have been wanting to do for decades... Even got a Wildernest camper shell for the truck. Has a fold out tent on the top of the shell.
That's a cool rig you ended up with. Got any photos?

The more I think about it, the more I think I'll like the HD springs. As often I like to have more than one passenger, I think it'll help. Plus all the cargo I have. A stiffer ride won't bother me any.
 

kooyajerms

grocery getter
Joined
May 5, 2004
Location
Pomona, Southern California
TDI
97 B4V (mine), 11 x5 35d (hers) 04 V10 (that one you want), 2014 Q7 (mom's) 74 Shasta 1400
Make sure you build that hitch like Dave, it should attach to the frame rail/bumper supports and not just the spare wheel well like the da'LAN. Or that cargo basket will flex your sheet metal to kingdom come.

I'd be running the 2" recovernow but none were made for wagons (hint hint your next set of things to sell us!)
 

Yblocker

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2010
Location
Oakland, CA
TDI
1997 Passat
Pretty heavy load. Make sure your tires are rated for it. We were 5 people and gear traveling 200 miles to a river tubing trip last summer with 90 degree temps. I had 2 tires with tread separation about a month later. These were 15-inch Kumhos.
 

thechoochlyman

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Campbellsville, Kentucky
TDI
1997 B4 Sedan
After some thinking I went ahead and ordered the HD rear wagon springs. I don't think I'll regret it. At the very least I can tell everybody else what they're like. Now I'm looking for those upgraded rear dust covers to put on my struts while they're removed.

The stock tires were rated for ~1100 each, the larger ones I'm running now are rated for ~1500. I'm in good shape there for sure.

So this weekend I'm planning to do the Timing Belt (with water pump and thermostat), rear springs, and hopefully remove my exhaust manifold to drill a hole for my pyrometer probe.
 

thechoochlyman

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Campbellsville, Kentucky
TDI
1997 B4 Sedan
Well color me surprised, I actually did install new dust boots last time. I think I just recall them not fitting as snugly as I assumed they would and forgot I even put them on.



Oh well, new springs are arriving today so I'll get to check that out.
 

thechoochlyman

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Campbellsville, Kentucky
TDI
1997 B4 Sedan
Had myself about a 12 hour day yesterday - only got the maintenance items done though.

Looks like the doofus before me used the cam lock plate for torquing on the big bolt, although this doesn't seem to affect things any.



I broke off a bolt in the power steering bracket and just drilled it out to stick a bolt and nut through it.



Obligatory timing-beltless engine photo





The timing belt job was not nearly as bad as I was expecting. And it dawned on me in the middle of the job that if the cam lock plate is in, the fuel pump pin is in, and the engine is at TDC once the belt it on and tight, everything is fine. I didn't bother trying to use any paint marks or counting teeth, and everything went perfectly. The only belt I pulled off that even looked worn at all was the Power steering/water pump belt. The serpentine belt looked fine, and the timing belt didn't show any wear that I could notice, but it did feel kinda sticky. The old tensioner pulley felt fine, but the little idler bearing felt pretty bad. That was the only part I pulled off that I really felt needed changing.

The thermostat change was honestly the worst part - having to pull out the power steering pump and such. But the fluid was pretty cloudy, so I just took the opportunity to drain it and put new in. Water pump wasn't so bad - the one I took out seemed brand new but I installed my new one anyhow. I saved all my coolant and ran it through a strainer so I could reuse it.

The new thermostat is the same thing that was in it before - VW stock part. But now it opens around 190, and on my test run last night my temps were sitting between 193 and 195. A timing check revealed that it was fully advanced right on the top green line, but I'm gonna leave it there a while and see how I like the way it runs. I imagine it'll come down a bit over time as the new belt stretches anyway.

I also changed the oil (T6 Rotella with a stock-sized filter) and air and cabin filters. This was 30k miles on the old engine filter - I'm thinking I might start changing it at 20 from now on.

 
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thechoochlyman

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Campbellsville, Kentucky
TDI
1997 B4 Sedan
With a little help from my friends (my dad and a 1/2" impact wrench) I got the new springs installed last night in about 3 hours. I double and triple checked my part numbers, and the new ones are definitely B4V HD springs. I expected there to at least be an extra coil or something, but the only difference I can find is the coil diameter is about .008-.010 larger than my stock springs.



New top, old bottom. The ride feels a tad more bumpy going down my driveway, and highway driving is affected only slightly (very, very little). I like it though, it feels much more sturdy. Definitely a good upgrade for anybody who hauls a lot of people or cargo.



Although suffice it to say it still rides much better than the ol' first gen...



Just for kicks I recently weighed my normal payload of tools and spare parts. (lbs/oz) That's not including the hydraulic jack and fire extinguisher.



 

thechoochlyman

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Campbellsville, Kentucky
TDI
1997 B4 Sedan
Important question - I couldn't figure out what the timing belt writeup meant by alignment marks on Saturday, but I got on this morning and read up about it. I just tightened it up by feel and got it here. It cooled down for about 3 hours prior to this photo. I've only driven about 60 miles on it, and have to drive another 40 to get home, will I be ok until I get home to adjust it? And I should let it cool down a while before I adjust it, correct?

 

ToddA1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Location
NJ 08002
TDI
'96 B4V, '97 B4 (sold), '97 Jetta (scrapped)
I wouldn't get too hung up about it. Let some tension off and call it good.

In the early days, unless you had a fancy belt stretch gauge, the belt tension was subjective. I've done plenty of timing jobs and I've never lost a belt.

-Todd
 

thechoochlyman

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Campbellsville, Kentucky
TDI
1997 B4 Sedan
Let me preface this by saying everything is all right - my car is running fine.

I made a goober last night and I'm gonna own up to it so others can learn from my mistake. When I was trying to reset my tensioner, I don't think I had the nut loose enough for it - when I used the spanner wrench, the whole thing kept trying to turn. Basically, I ended up twisting the tensioner out of place and bending the little clip that goes into the engine block.

I remedied this by putting about five or six idiot marks on the timing belt and cam/IP gears, gently slid the TB and tensioner off, then put it all back together with my old tensioner. I rotated the engine several times with my counterhold tool, and all seemed fine. I fired it up, and the timing is now in the middle of advanced and normal (was previously sitting on the green, fully-advanced line).

I have already ordered a new tensioner ($50 mistake... ughhhh), tensioner stud, nut, washer (didn't even have a washer before), and 3/8 Drive Torque Wrench. The nut felt "soft" going on last time, and I'm worried that it's starting to twist or strip out. Thus, I'm replacing the whole thing, and using a torque wrench like I should have from the get go. I'd assume that the tensioner nut shouldn't be too tight, or it will inhibit its self-adjustment function.

Was slipping the belt off and back on like this a bad idea? Maybe. I didn't feel like it was gonna slip off the crank gear, and it didn't. I made sure nothing was binding. I'm gonna do it again when my second new tensioner gets here and count my blessings. I don't know why it was so hard to get it right the first time... I guess things just slip by in the moment.
 
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wyopel

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2014
Location
WA
TDI
1996 B4V-270k, 1998 Jetta-140k
I once received a tensioner and the tab on the back it was bent (must have been dropped during shipping/packaging). I thought about bending it back and putting it in, but decided not to risk it. Though it was probably unlikely I was afraid the the fatigued metal would break or bend and allow the belt to jump a tooth or worse. If it were me...and I had another way to get to work, I would just leave it lined up and ready to install the new one.
 

thechoochlyman

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Campbellsville, Kentucky
TDI
1997 B4 Sedan
Mine got bent pretty badly out of shape, so I decided to not risk it and get a new one. But I have the old one back on it now that still feels pretty tight, so I think it'll be fine until the new one gets here Thursday.
 

jhax

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2012
Location
Golden, CO
TDI
96 Passat B4V, ALH engine out of a 2002 Jetta, some IE Rods and ASV Pistons. Nothing drivable yet though
Hey, I have almost the exact same dent in my driver rear quarter panel as well, did you or someone you know back into a tree like the PO's wife did on mine? I really want to fix it.
 

Abacus

That helpful B4 guy
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Location
Relocated from Maine to Dewey, AZ
TDI
Only the B4V left
You'll be fine with the old tensioner until you can swap on the new one. Good call.

Don't worry about the washer, I have never seen the shouldered nut use one. I keep some on hand in case that nut is lost but it's never been an issue with either one.

When you are done, just make sure the cam, crank, and IP all line up perfectly. If they don't, I'd loosen the cam and reset the timing with the IP pin removed, making sure the crank stays put. The set the tensioner and torque it to 15-18 ft-lbs. I know the torque spec is 15 but I use 18 for used nuts and stud. The point behind it all is to get the movement error evenly distributed between the points of influence. The belt will go back on correctly, for it to be 1 tooth out is a huge amount, but it won't be correctly timed without the cam sprocket released. The dynamic timing on the graph is just for the injection window, not the static timing, so they're completely different. I have re-timed many a B4 with components out of time and had them run better, but not as good as they should since they cam and crank timing were not in perfect phase.
 

thechoochlyman

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2015
Location
Campbellsville, Kentucky
TDI
1997 B4 Sedan
I think what I'm gonna do is just pull the valve cover and put everything back at TDC, then remove and reinstall everything. Seems safer that way in every regard. lol

The camshaft bolt is supposed to be 33 ft/lbs, correct? I haven't been able to find a definitive torque spec list on the MkIII/B4 section of the forum, I might copy everything from my Bentley manual later and post it up.
 
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