Cyclonic action CCV Air/Oil separator fabrication

josh8loop

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Location
Vero Beach, Fl.
TDI
2002 VW Jetta TDI Manual(performed 01M to 5-speed swap) - 183,000 miles and climbing!
I wanted to update this Thread a bit to let new viewers know that I have abandoned the home made version of the cyclonic separator for a ready made fully functioning and cheap unit from a BMW. Scroll down to post number 10 for more details :) This thing works beautifully by the way!








Fellas,

Since it appears OEMs use these types of systems, they should be really easy to adapt or fabricate at home:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1062875

http://shop.jgs4x4.co.uk/land-rover-defender-tdi-cyclone-engine-oil-breather-249-p.asp





Here is a Home Made unit that looks like a promising design-custom design for Smart Car application:



http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo291/tkaald/DSC02817.jpg&imgrefurl=http://clubsmartcar.com/lofiversion/index.php/t23607-100.html&usg=__W888SvacBli5geCY4XsIJIgyBAM=&h=417&w=798&sz=89&hl=en&start=121&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=Mbzgh-bc7gPY5M:&tbnh=75&tbnw=143&prev=/search%3Fq%3DCyclone%2Bcrank%2Bcase%2Bseparator%2Bmodification%26start%3D120%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Dactive%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1259%26bih%3D850%26ndsp%3D20%26tbm%3Disch&ei=wv8mTs7HOcjj0QGincnyCg







Went to the local junkyard on Saturday, and acquired some various pieces for about $10.00 I didn't find a BMW Cyclonic air/oil separator like I wanted, but found enough stuff to create my own. I assembled it on Saturday, and installed it on Sunday. I have about 400 miles on it so far, and it seems to work very well. The first 80 miles(in town) or so I didn't notice anything that had started to give evidence that it was collecting. After tonights journey to pick up my father in law at the Orlando airport I had a good chance to give it a work out. Looks like I am collecting liquid oil on the Stainless Steel funnel that helps to form the cyclone in the unit. The bottom of the cyclonic unit(Drain) is "T" ed through a 3/8" rubber hose into the oil dipstick to return any collected oil to the sump. Now that I know it shows the potential to operate, I will have to install a measured collection system so I can quantify it's effectiveness.
__________________
 
Last edited:

rockwood

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2011
Location
San Diego
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI
Nissan's been using catch cans like this for years on their SR20-powered Sentras and G20s, which are sadly becoming plentiful in junkyards:





Got any pictures of your setup?
 

tequilaiam

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Location
Indiana
TDI
2000 NB
One thing to consider: Where are you going to put it? I tried an ag seperator design a few years ago. It worked OK but froze up in the winter since I mounted it behind the radiator fans. If you got something small enough to hang near the firewall you'd probably be OK. But then would it seperate? Where would it drain back to? dipstick port? Anything on the valve cover would be too high to clear the hood, no?

I just did the elephant trunk. It still freezes up in the winter but when mounted in front of the front tires its easy enough to give it a little kick to unblock it.
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
While it sounds appealing, I would be surprised if the off gas velocity was high enough to create enough much force. The flow seems too low and you want to keep the DP from being too high.
I would think that a chevron separator or a simple wire wool collector (such as is already used in the ALH valve cover) would be adequate.
 
Last edited:

josh8loop

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Location
Vero Beach, Fl.
TDI
2002 VW Jetta TDI Manual(performed 01M to 5-speed swap) - 183,000 miles and climbing!
One thing to consider: Where are you going to put it? I tried an ag seperator design a few years ago. It worked OK but froze up in the winter since I mounted it behind the radiator fans. If you got something small enough to hang near the firewall you'd probably be OK. But then would it seperate? Where would it drain back to? dipstick port? Anything on the valve cover would be too high to clear the hood, no?

I just did the elephant trunk. It still freezes up in the winter but when mounted in front of the front tires its easy enough to give it a little kick to unblock it.


I live in Florida, so no freezing issues here :) As far as placement, I will just fit it in where it fits best. Right now my engine cover is off for the experimentation, but eventually I plan on mounting it just to the right of the vacuum pump. I am using a low profile rubber elbow to keep it under the engine cover. The drain will still go to the dipstick tube. I will be placing a small(1/8") orifice in the drain tube so I don't have crank case vapors entering the botton of the separator. Also, the cold weather BMW separators come with rubber insulation to keep it from freezing over FYI
 

josh8loop

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Location
Vero Beach, Fl.
TDI
2002 VW Jetta TDI Manual(performed 01M to 5-speed swap) - 183,000 miles and climbing!
While it sounds appealing, I would be surprised if the off gas velocity was high enough to create enough much force. The flow seems too low and you want to keep the DP from being too high.
I would think that a chevron separator or a simple wire wool collector (such as is already used in the ALH valve cover) would be adequate.



Your right, the velocity and DP are important. In fact I was just thinking about an easy way to construct an automatic adjustable nozzle that will open for higher flow rates, and will close down a bit at the lower rates. This is to hopefully get the velocity high enough at most engine speeds to allow effectiveness. I could also make a simple pressure operated bypass valve if needed to bypass the cyclonic separator at higher CCV flows I guess. Changing internal dimensions can change the lower flow operating point, but not sure thats where I want to go yet.....Because right now it seems to be working so I will only make minor tweaks.
 
Last edited:

josh8loop

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Location
Vero Beach, Fl.
TDI
2002 VW Jetta TDI Manual(performed 01M to 5-speed swap) - 183,000 miles and climbing!
Darn double post! :)
 
Last edited:

josh8loop

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Location
Vero Beach, Fl.
TDI
2002 VW Jetta TDI Manual(performed 01M to 5-speed swap) - 183,000 miles and climbing!
Nissan's been using catch cans like this for years on their SR20-powered Sentras and G20s, which are sadly becoming plentiful in junkyards:





Got any pictures of your setup?






That's interesting. I just did a quick search to verify they use the cyclonic separation action, and came up with nothing. You can't really tell by looking at the outer shape either. Wish I could get an internal photo.

I don't have any installation photos yet, as it's still in an infancy state right now. If things continue to go well with it, I may create a Youtube video documenting the construction and installation method.
 

josh8loop

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Location
Vero Beach, Fl.
TDI
2002 VW Jetta TDI Manual(performed 01M to 5-speed swap) - 183,000 miles and climbing!
Little update on progress-or lack of it:

Last evening I ran down to NAPA to pick up some rubber hose to use on the cyclonic separator and move toward the final installation. I figured I would go ahead and use "Weatherhead" hose on it(the kind that has the black/dark grey woven fabric on it) to keep things with a stock look. I made a poor decision in size thinking the hose would stretch and allow it to slide over the fittings. boy was I wrong! $18.00 in hose down the drain:mad:-that will teach me to try to make things look stock:rolleyes:! I went with the 5/8" instead of the 3/4" I should have gone with. The 5/8" standard rubber coolant hose would have probably worked well, and would have stretched like it should have. I will probably have another go at it tonight if time allows.
 

josh8loop

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Location
Vero Beach, Fl.
TDI
2002 VW Jetta TDI Manual(performed 01M to 5-speed swap) - 183,000 miles and climbing!
Little update on the project:



After fiddling with my home made cyclonic oil/air separator which was shaping up nicely I had to abandon it. In an effort to streamline internal air flow I had to cut my air inlet threaded metal fitting at an angle. When I went to thread the angle-cut threaded part of the fitting into the plastic threaded housing it tore up the threads really bad to the point that it will not hold as well as I need it to. I want things to look fairly stock(not out of place) and I want things to be solid for many years of useage.

Frusterated, I went to the internet nd searched BMW cyclonic oil/air separators, and came up with some parts I had never seen before. One of them was this one:




http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://c1552172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/22520_x200.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E39-M5-S62_5.0L/Engine/Emission/ES19538/&usg=__eeD3YHnX_ZLDglgGZlpAl5Btx0U=&h=150&w=200&sz=4&hl=en&start=23&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=Ud44MLyptBNgVM:&tbnh=78&tbnw=104&prev=/search%3Fq%3DBMW%2BM5%2Boil%2Bseparator%26start%3D20%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Dactive%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1259%26bih%3D848%26ndsp%3D20%26tbm%3Disch&ei=ImI5TqGKBIeDtgf2opCZAw


Copy this into the part search in the website to see the part that I ordered(for some reason the link above doesn't bring the exact part up?): 11151705237







BMW part number is 11.15.1.705.237 and is for a 2000 BMW X5 4.4I M62 whatever that is :) I ended up ordering mine from Autohaus AZ for around $36.00 I liked it since both inlet and outlet for the air are on the same side of the separator, and if they stay consistent size wise to other BMW separators out there, they should have just under ¾” air inlet/outlet and around ½” oil drain outlet on the bottom. Best of all it is black plastic and will look like it should be there as an OEM part.




Here they are also installed in the M5, and also shows a cut-apart view:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...59&bih=848&tbm=isch&ei=yVY5TvXxBZO2tge85oSZAw





..
 
Last edited:

josh8loop

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Location
Vero Beach, Fl.
TDI
2002 VW Jetta TDI Manual(performed 01M to 5-speed swap) - 183,000 miles and climbing!
Fellas,


Got my package this evening from Autohaus AZ that had my cyclonic air/oil separator......


Wow!!-This thing is awesome! when you blow gently into the inlet you can hear the whirring/spinning of the air inside. This is a good sign from what I can tell. My homemade unit certainly didn't do that, and it leads me to believe this one will be tons more effective than the unit I made. Another thing that makes me like this is that it looks completely stock with fabric covered 3/4" lines going to it, and the cyclone separator is made out of the same black plastic other engine components are made of. I installed it between the vacuum pump and the stock air box, and I had plenty of room. I will try to make/post a U-tube video of it soon. I put a small clear glass jar on the bottom so I can monitor the effluent to see just how much separation is going on.
 
Last edited:

Keith_J

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2007
Location
West
TDI
2000 Jetta MT
Nice find! Waiting on the performance report. Should not pose any restriction to flow, something other devices ignored which raises crankcase pressure, causing greater leakage of oil from the turbocharger.
 

josh8loop

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Location
Vero Beach, Fl.
TDI
2002 VW Jetta TDI Manual(performed 01M to 5-speed swap) - 183,000 miles and climbing!
Nice find! Waiting on the performance report. Should not pose any restriction to flow, something other devices ignored which raises crankcase pressure, causing greater leakage of oil from the turbocharger.





Thanks! :) With any luck I will be able to make a video this afternoon, and post the link here tonight. Stay Tuned!!
 

josh8loop

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Location
Vero Beach, Fl.
TDI
2002 VW Jetta TDI Manual(performed 01M to 5-speed swap) - 183,000 miles and climbing!
Fellas,

I put a quick video together this afternoon of the new BMW Cyclonic Air/Oil separator for my CCV. The part can be purchased from ECS tuning:

http://www.ecstuning.com/

You can find the exact part I used by copy and pasteing this part number in their search:

11151705237




Here is the U-tube video of my setup. It's not complete yet, but it's functional(I hope :D):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMuQhPClVCU










As you can see, I didn't have to reroute any vacuum components and everything is pretty much stock. Engine cover still fits perfectly too. Can't wait to see the results!


..
 
Last edited:

lirunaway

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
Location
Mooresville, NC
TDI
2006 VW Golf TDI, Model Year:2006 Code:6 MFG:07/05 Vin:9BWGR61J364004114 Sales Model:9B1 538 Description:1.9 TDI High 100 Engine:BEW Type:TD CCM:1896 KW:74 Description:Pumpe-D... Transmission:GPC Type:A Number:09AH GVWR:4097 Front:2269 Rear:1850
Very cool. Keep us informed. I think I'll do the same. I bought a VCDS to alter the egr valve and found it can't be altered on a PD. I looked again and it does look like more of that oil is coming from the ccv hoses so this would be a big help.
 

josh8loop

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Location
Vero Beach, Fl.
TDI
2002 VW Jetta TDI Manual(performed 01M to 5-speed swap) - 183,000 miles and climbing!
By the way,


Just wanted to let everyone know that this is somewhat experimental in nature, although the design has been proven/used on other vehicles. I'm still trying to figure out how to tweak the configuration for max results. Whether or not to drain to sump(like the BMW's do) vs drain to small catch can, or whether or not to bleed a small amount of boost pressure through a small(1/16"-1/8" line) to add to the inlet of the cyclonic separator to increase it's at-idle and above idle performance. All still questions I intend to answer :D
 
Last edited:

josh8loop

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Location
Vero Beach, Fl.
TDI
2002 VW Jetta TDI Manual(performed 01M to 5-speed swap) - 183,000 miles and climbing!
Fellas,

Did an early(after 60 or so miles) on my separator today. While there was no drippings in the catch can, I did see evidence that the bottom part of the Cyclonic separator was wet with oil. This seems like an early indication(after 60 miles :)) that it might be working. I also went ahead and attached a 1/8" bleed line from my post turbo(high pressure) to the inlet of the cyclonic separator. This will increase air volume throughput through the separator, and IMHO should help increase the separators efficiency over the operating range.


I also noticed something interesting today while playing with the setup. I didn't know when the engine is running, and you remove the CCV connection(quick disconnect) to the air intake you can feel flowing air coming OUT of the intake! Seems strange, you would think that you may feel air flowing in......, but it was flowing out? This could (perhaps limited to idle conditions) oppose the flow of air going through my cyclonic separator-in any case, I'm glad I added the high pressure bleed to help things out :D
 

Keith_J

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2007
Location
West
TDI
2000 Jetta MT
I doubt the bleed air addition will do anything beneficial. The factory mist separator is very effective at low engine speeds, it is at high speeds where you have boost generated that you have high flow.

As far as the reverse flow, you probably have it during low speed operation due to flow restriction through the intercooler. And since you pulled the "puck" off, you lost the check valve which prevents back-flow.
 

josh8loop

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Location
Vero Beach, Fl.
TDI
2002 VW Jetta TDI Manual(performed 01M to 5-speed swap) - 183,000 miles and climbing!
I doubt the bleed air addition will do anything beneficial. The factory mist separator is very effective at low engine speeds, it is at high speeds where you have boost generated that you have high flow.

As far as the reverse flow, you probably have it during low speed operation due to flow restriction through the intercooler. And since you pulled the "puck" off, you lost the check valve which prevents back-flow.



I ended up taking my old puck apart, and I've got to say that design makes no sense at all! Comes in and goes out of the same side of the diaphram unimpeeded-the spring is on this side too. No apparent check valve function. There was probably 3/4" from the inlet and outlet to the diaphram, and it is just a free flowing type of setup. I would understand it if the spring were on the other side of the diaphram pushing against the inlet and outlet regulating the flow through the puck. One thing I can say is that there is however a drastic U turn of the CCV through the puck. The reverse flow was also from the pre-turbo side of the intake just down stream of the air filter. Wonder if it functions more as a flow averaging type, and helps remove high flow pressure pulsations? Maybe someone out there can shed some scientific light on this issue?
 
Last edited:

josh8loop

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Location
Vero Beach, Fl.
TDI
2002 VW Jetta TDI Manual(performed 01M to 5-speed swap) - 183,000 miles and climbing!
Update:

I am pleasantly greated by a couple drips of oil that have accumulated in my catch container today. It has been installed for 200 miles, and for the last 120 or so I have had the air bleed from the post intercooler installed. It seems like the air bleed has helped to speed up the oil removal process by increasing the air velocity through the cyclonic separator as planned. This to me is very promising, and I expect continued fantastic results.
 

seaglf

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Location
Houston Texas
TDI
2002 Golf GLS Automatic
what happens if you just block of the hole in the valve cover?
And has this shown to be more effective then a Racor CCV filter?
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
If you block the hole in the valve cover, you will blow out your front and rear seals, valve cover gasket, and your turbo oil drain will not work well, due to the pressurizing of the engine internal voids from cylinder blow by and vacuum pump discharge.

This usually leads to heavy smoke out the exhaust, from the turb oil.
 

josh8loop

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Location
Vero Beach, Fl.
TDI
2002 VW Jetta TDI Manual(performed 01M to 5-speed swap) - 183,000 miles and climbing!
what happens if you just block of the hole in the valve cover?
And has this shown to be more effective then a Racor CCV filter?



Definately don't want to block and crank case vent holes-that would be just asking or trouble ;) I'm not sure what the performance diference of this may be compared to the Racor CCV since I haven't used Racors unit before. So far my cyclonic CCV is working pretty darn well to me:D






..
 

josh8loop

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Location
Vero Beach, Fl.
TDI
2002 VW Jetta TDI Manual(performed 01M to 5-speed swap) - 183,000 miles and climbing!
OK..... Blocking bad

I like the idea of this cyclonic separator,
here are some good references

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclonic_separation

I also like the Idea of an oil centrifuge like the one below

http://www.dieselcraft.com/EngineOilCleaningOC25.php

you should attach a clear hose going to the intake so you can monitor how much oil gets past.



Seems like alot of the oil is rather entrained in the air flow and is difficult to separate. That's where something like the cyclonic unit could excell. It increases the force on the entrained oil droplets, and forces them to adhere and drip down the cyclone surface.





..
 

seaglf

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Location
Houston Texas
TDI
2002 Golf GLS Automatic
I am real interested in how this turns out. If BMW uses it then it must be pretty effective. The only questions being how much airflow is needed to work.

I assume that since a diesel has more compression then a gas engine that the Crankcase pressure is higher. If that's the case then there should be more then enough air flow.

I still think it would be a good idea to attach a clear hose going to the intake to see how much gets past.

Or you could get technical and attach a simple high flow filter of some kind between the cyclone and the intake, drive it for say 100 miles or more,weigh it before and after with a precise scale. then keeping the same filter put the stock set up back, drive the same miles under similar conditions and compare, to a ccv filter system like racor or some of the home made systems

either way if you are getting oil out that's not going into the intake then it is certainly better then stock. I know that when I cleaned my intake I got at least half a quart of oil from my intercooler after appx. 70,000 miles. That cant be good.
 
Last edited:
Top