PT Cruiser 2.4L timing belt change - Yuck!

visionlogic

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I'm in the middle of a driveway (no shade tree to be found) change out of a timing belt on an non-turbo '04 PT Cruiser 2.4L for my mechanically disinclined stepson. For my remuneration I have him participating in the job as my "helper". We're both loving the 95* heat. :rolleyes:

I've never wrenched on one these before. As far as I'm concerned doing a TB job on my ALH is a piece of cake compared to this... so many bits and pieces to be removed, pushed out of the way, etc.

I found it negatively interesting that the belt stripped teeth at 67k miles, with other belt teeth obviously separating, when the recommended mileage rating for the belt is 102k miles. But, I don't know the 'age' change out recommendation, and being an '04 means an approximate age of 7 years, which seems awfully long to me.

Stripped teeth:




Separating teeth:



From what I've been able to gather the 2.4L is a 'partially' non-interference engine. The valves won't hit the pistons, but they can hit each other when a TB lets loose. After I get the new belt, new tensioner, new roller, and new water pump on I'm keeping my fingers crossed that a compression check will show good numbers.

If anyone has any tips or tricks I'm all ears! Thanks!
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
I have never known one of those NOT to bend valves. And I have seen plenty of them, as that engine was also used in base model Caravans for years, which seems to be a magnet for "base model" people (meaning, they never do ANY PM.... unless it stops moving).
 

visionlogic

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I have never known one of those NOT to bend valves. And I have seen plenty of them, as that engine was also used in base model Caravans for years, which seems to be a magnet for "base model" people (meaning, they never do ANY PM.... unless it stops moving).
Oh joy! Just what I wanted to hear! :(

All sarcasm aside, I appreciate you giving me your expertise. Do you think I should move ahead with the belt, etc. install and do the compression check, or just stop at this point and pull the head? Are quality rebuilt heads readily available, or are they regularly rebuilt? Is piston or rod damage likely to have occurred? Sorry for so many questions... just trying to formulate a plan.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Actually, Fiat is trying to dis-associate themselves with ANYTHING Chrysler has had, and the PT is one such animal. Many parts are NLA for them (try finding a heater core, for instance).

My machine shop regularly does heads for these, so in that respect there should not be any issues getting parts if it is just the typical valve job. Just be sure it gets an MLS head gasket, even if it was originally equipped with a composite (it probably is an MLS anyways, or you'd have a puddle of oil everywhere the car goes by now).

The thing I always worry about with situations like this is: even if the valves were not signifigantly damaged enough to cause a compression loss right now, how much longer will it run with them ever so slightly bent before it self destructs the guides, overheats the stem, and drops the head into the cylinder and completely trashes the engine? Many multi-valve engines have valves so tiny and springs so stiff that even a slightly tweaked valve can be forced shut "well enough" to start and run, but it won't run for long.
 
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visionlogic

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Thanks Brian. Looks like I'll be pulling the head and making some phone calls to try and find a reputable shop in the Mobile-Pensacola area.

Just for yardstick purposes, what's your going rate for a typical valve job on one of these?
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
It is like an 8 hour job. Then if it is nearing 200k miles, I'd recommend the balance shaft chain and tensioner, too, under the oil pump at the front of the crank.
 

MrMopar

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I'd recommend the balance shaft chain and tensioner, too, under the oil pump at the front of the crank.
If this is the same 2.4 engine that came in the SRT-4 (sans turbo) you could always just jettison the balance shaft. I've seen a friend do that to gain an extra 10 HP or something like that. If you don't rev that PT Cruiser engine that high, the excess vibrations from the lack of a balance shaft might not affect you that much.
 

visionlogic

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It is like an 8 hour job. Then if it is nearing 200k miles, I'd recommend the balance shaft chain and tensioner, too, under the oil pump at the front of the crank.
It's got 67k miles. The problem surfaced when the engine would not start after being stopped to fuel at a gas station.
 

AndySRT

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from what i remember the 2.4 is a non interference motor, the valves can still hit each other tho. The 2.0 was the interference motor. they share almost the exact same cyl head tho. i would do a leak down or compression test before ripping off the head.i have done quite a few engine swaps with the 2.4 into first gen and second gen neons.
 
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visionlogic

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i would do a leak down or compression test before ripping off the head.
I'm leaning towards a leakdown test to try to pinpoint any tweaked valves. But first I've got to borrow, make or buy a tester, and get hold of a compressor, neither of which I have. Of course. :(
 

TDIJetta99

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03... Faster than yours =]
Throw the new belt and whatnot on and check compression before you start it... if all is well, see how it runs... in my experience with the 2.4's, they will either be absolutely fine or have no compression in one or 2 cylinders.
 

visionlogic

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Lo and behold, I do have a compression gauge! I'll move ahead with the install and do the tests. Thanks for relating your experience. Much appreciated!
 

visionlogic

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Spent several hours today in the driveway putting the TB path parts back in. But didn't finish.

I'm failing to keep the cam gears lined up prior to putting the TB on. I'm guessing that the cam followers exert enough back pressure on the cam such that each wants to rotate off of its alignment marks. Perhaps I should pop the VC so I can jam a piece of wood under each cam to provide some resistance to the 'auto rotation' as I install the belt?
 

RabbitGTI

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Spent several hours today in the driveway putting the TB path parts back in. But didn't finish.

I'm failing to keep the cam gears lined up prior to putting the TB on. I'm guessing that the cam followers exert enough back pressure on the cam such that each wants to rotate off of its alignment marks. Perhaps I should pop the VC so I can jam a piece of wood under each cam to provide some resistance to the 'auto rotation' as I install the belt?
Be positive, it's only gotta run long enough to trade it in. :D
 

TDIJetta99

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03... Faster than yours =]
It can be a pain to hold the cam gears.. the rear one is the PITA.. Be persistent with it.. You'll get it.. sometimes you can place something between the 2 gears to hold them like a wooden wedge.. I have a nice little aluminum thing that works well for those things..
 

AndySRT

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my tip for getting the cam gears is to line the exhaust side off a little like 1 tooth. then dont forget to turn the motor over a full 2 times before checking to see if the marks are lined up. that always brought them back into time for me. I never had luck when lining them up correctly before i put the belt on.
 

visionlogic

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Thanks for the input guys.

The problem with the intake cam gear is that it will not "rest" in the position where its alignment marks are horizontal - it wants to either rotate forward or back and then come to a "rest". The exhaust is similar but not as bad. Perhaps wooden wedge(s) behind each gear will supply the needed "drag"... I'll just have to try something.
 

visionlogic

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. no need for the piece of wood. the tension of the belt will probly pull it back . here is a good how to from the SRT-4 same motor and idea just no turbo on yours

http://www.srtforums.com/forums/f75/how-remove-install-cylinder-head-421718/
I am familiar with putting the exhaust cam a 1/2 notch below the intake cam to allow the tensioner tightening to pull them into alignment.

However, the linked post says to loosen the idler pulley and install the belt around it last. That is different from other instructions which say to begin at the crank and wrap the belt around countrclockwise and end at the tensioner. Interesting. Thanks!
 

visionlogic

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Maybe success. Yesterday, after having the belt on and off a dozen times or so, each time slightly varying the relative positions of the 2 cams and the crank, the stars aligned so that cam and crank marks finally positioned properly when the tensioner was set correctly. Rotated crank twice around and they remained aligned. Hooked up the battery to test - started instantly, ran it for 5 secs and shut it down. Too tired to do any more now. Too much sun and heat have baked my brain.

I still don't know the trick of getting the belt on easily. No matter how I swung the tensioner through its loosen-tighten arc I could not find any position that would allow the belt to go over it as the last step. And removing the idler pulley and attempting to reinstall it as the last step wouldn't work either - still not enough slack. I ended up installing the belt on the exhaust cam as the last step - carefully using a small flat blade screwdriver to pry the belt edge on until it slipped into place. Each time I inspected the belt and I did not see any damage done by using this method. I guess only time will tell.

All in all, a truly cussworthy endeavor.
 
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majin_dave

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The idler trick worked like a charm for getting that belt back on. I messed with it for hours and it just wouldnt go. Thanks for the ideas. A truly helpful thread. I just had to create an account to tell yall!
 
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