2009 Tiguan: First Drive (CR)

jvance · Jul 10, 2008

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...ve/overview/volkswagen-tiguan-first-drive.htm

Summary: Consumer Reports likes the Tiguan overall, but thinks it's a little pricey.

eb2143 · Jul 11, 2008

I think most drivers will eek out just a little more than 20mpg overall!

fahrfrompuken · Jul 11, 2008

Too much money! Imagine how much it will be with a TDI. I guess I will be getting the new Jetta TDI.

jvance · Jul 11, 2008

eb2143 said:
I think most drivers will eek out just a little more than 20mpg overall!

I keep saying use the CR economy numbers for comparison purposes. CR says it will get the same mileage as the new Forester and a little less than a Rav 4.

donfromnaples · Jul 11, 2008

Nice job Consumer Reports of not mentioning the tdi version of the Tiguan coming out very shortly which will achieve the best fuel mileage of any SUV/CUV. They just love diesels, don't they? As far as pricey goes, they got the most expensive model with all the bells and whistles so of course it will be pricey. I expect the tdi version to come in around $27,000. This seems to be a fair price considering it will have no true competition when the tdi arrives. By the way, all other test drives and consumer reviews have rated it far above average.

jvance · Jul 11, 2008

donfromnaples said:
Nice job Consumer Reports of not mentioning the tdi version of the Tiguan coming out very shortly which will achieve the best fuel mileage of any SUV/CUV.

If you have a firm VW press release on that, please post it to news. Last I heard it was, wasn't, was, wasn't, was and wasn't coming to the US. Sorry that Consumer Reports doesn't report rumors. Sorry that they don't rate cars that they can't buy off the lot.

They just love diesels, don't they?

Yeah boy they really trashed the E320 Bluetec didn't they? And the 06 Jetta TDI, and the 02 Golf TDI. Oh wait - THEY DIDN'T.

Traveling First Class at 31 mpg.

I expect the tdi version to come in around $27,000. This seems to be a fair price considering it will have no true competition when the tdi arrives.

Assuming the Tiguan TDI actually arrives. If you have news please post it.

By the way, all other test drives and consumer reviews have rated it far above average.

Most test drives and reviews rate any car above average. Car and Driver, Consumers Digest and Road and Track all live in an automobile Lake Wobegon. What, exactly, did CR say was bad about the car? Did you even read the review?

lupin..the..3rd · Jul 11, 2008

fahrfrompuken said:
Too much money! Imagine how much it will be with a TDI.

Not to worry, I doubt we'll see it soon, if at all. Tiguan TDI is selling so well in Europe, factory is already working overtime to meet the demand. They don't have the capacity to make enough the for US market, and with the dollar exchange rates as they are, they likely don't have much interest either.

jvance · Jul 11, 2008

lupin..the..3rd said:
Not to worry, I doubt we'll see it soon, if at all. Tiguan TDI is selling so well in Europe, factory is already working overtime to meet the demand. They don't have the capacity to make enough the for US market, and with the dollar exchange rates as they are, they likely don't have much interest either.

Unfortunately you're probably right. There's no cert posted for it on CARB, so we certainly won't see it this year.

As for pricing if it were sold over here, consider how the JSW TDI is priced. The TDI is its own trimline, roughly equipped like SE "plus". If the Tiguan is marketed the same way, expect $31,000 and more.

Showing my work,

Tiguan SE + 4-Motion (who buys a 2WD SUV?): $28,875
Destination Charge: $650
Diesel engine additional cost: $1,500

Baseline Tiguan TDI 4-Motion: $31,025

donfromnaples · Jul 11, 2008

I wonder if autobloggreen.com, winding road magazine and left hand news are all wrong in mentioning that the Tiguan tdi is likely just not this year.
Consumer Reports on the 2006 Jetta: "the rear seat is tight", "slow with the automatic", "subpar reliability" , "sounds a bit coarse when revved", "clatters at idle", "a sharp low-beam cutoff reduces visibility over dips", "automatic transmission is smooth but not as responsive as we would like", "the center console intrudes on knee room, and the large roof pillars and head restraints create blind spots" , "drivers confused the cruise-control and turn-signal stalks", "The center-rear head restraint does not provide adequate whiplash protection", "rear-facing infant-seat bases may be difficult to secure". This was just one model test drive with all the accolades. And you guessed it, the VW Jetta was not recommended.

donfromnaples · Jul 11, 2008

Now the 2009 Tiguan according to Consumer Reports. First, I guess they do report on "rumors": "It arrives first with the familiar 2.0-liter turbocharged four-cylinder, and a diesel version arrives later."But potential buyers might be in for a bit of sticker shock", "fuel economy is not a strong point", "cargo area is modest", "expensive" and this was all determined on a First Drive not a full road test review. Compare with their beloved Honda CR-V, "Fuel economy is good at 21 mpg overall" yet they complained about the 20 mpg overall returned on the Tiguan. CR often uses praise (positive adjectives) to describe the Hondas and Toyotas yet uses demeaning (negative adjectives) to describe VWs and many american makes and models.

jvance · Jul 11, 2008

donfromnaples said:
I wonder if autobloggreen.com, winding road magazine and left hand news are all wrong in mentioning that the Tiguan tdi is likely just not this year.

You mean like they were wrong about the Accord diesel?

Consumer Reports on the 2006 Jetta: "the rear seat is tight", "slow with the automatic", "subpar reliability" , "sounds a bit coarse when revved", "clatters at idle", "a sharp low-beam cutoff reduces visibility over dips", "automatic transmission is smooth but not as responsive as we would like", "the center console intrudes on knee room, and the large roof pillars and head restraints create blind spots" , "drivers confused the cruise-control and turn-signal stalks", "The center-rear head restraint does not provide adequate whiplash protection", "rear-facing infant-seat bases may be difficult to secure". This was just one model test drive with all the accolades. And you guessed it, the VW Jetta was not recommended.

Stop cherrypicking and lying. Consumer reports recommends the Jetta due to improved reliability. It rated the car very good overall, near the top of the compact class. Here's its summary - note the mention of the new TDI:

"The Jetta has a nicely finished interior, and rear-seat room is generous. Handling is agile, and the ride is fairly comfortable. The five-cylinder engine is noisy when revved and returned a middling 24 mpg overall. A new cleaner, more modern CRD (common rail diesel) diesel version returns for 2009 and will be available in all 50 states. It should exceed the 34 mpg we got in the previous Jetta diesel. Stability control is standard on most trim levels. IIHS crash-test results are impressive. Reliability of the turbo has been below average, but the 2.5-liter's is average. A wagon version is newly available."

jvance · Jul 11, 2008

donfromnaples said:
CR often uses praise (positive adjectives) to describe the Hondas and Toyotas yet uses demeaning (negative adjectives) to describe VWs and many american makes and models.

You mean like the Toyota FJ Cruiser review?

"Visibility is horrendous", "clumsy handling", "disconcerting at its limits", Constant exhaust noise is tiresome", "ungainly", "the nose dives dramatically when you brake", "dark, cave-like interior", "Once in the uncomfortable seats, it's a long reach to close the heavy door."

Quite the praise.

What about that Tiguan review again?

"Capable, pleasant and well-finished", "agile handling, refined interior, and smooth, punchy powertrain", "well crafted, with a roomy and luxurious interior, comfortable and quiet ride, and sporting character", "prompt steering response and well-controlled body lean"

How demeaning! Mommy, they're being mean to my car!

It's not just that you're a liar. It's that you're so bad at it.

Blue_Hen_TDI · Jul 11, 2008

Wow jvance, what did donfromnaples do to make you so angry in your retorts to his posts? Is there some history we're not aware of?

jvance · Jul 11, 2008

Blue_Hen_TDI said:
Wow jvance, what did donfromnaples do to make you so angry in your retorts to his posts? Is there some history we're not aware of?

I hate it when people repeat lies and propaganda with an air of certainty in the face of easily checked facts.

It's in certain manufacturer's interest to get the "CR is biased" whisper campaign out there. The alternative would be to actually improve their products, and that would take money and effort. Ironically VW is not one of those manufacturers, because CR consistently gives its cars high test scores. It's the historically poor reliability that drags it down, and even then CR shows improving reliability for the 5-cylinder Jettas (now above average for '07s)

Also, a little bit of this:

Blue_Hen_TDI · Jul 11, 2008

I'm definitely not a CR basher. In fact, my wife subscribes to their online account. We often go with their recommendations on some items. We've had good luck with a digital camera, a vacuum cleaner, and a refrigerator that they recommended, just off the top of my head.

It can't be denied, though, that CR, at least in the past, has had an agenda in their ratings. Their obvious big black eye was the manipulated testing of the Suzuki Samurai, where the drivers just couldn't get it to flip, but a very demanding director made them invent manevers that had never been tried before to finally forcefully get a tip to complete the hit piece for the magazine.

http://www.aim.org/aim-report/aim-report-a-black-eye-for-consumer-reports/

CU videotapes and other evidence obtained in discovery show-ed that when the car was put through the standard "emergency avoidance" test course, it passed with no problems. This is supposed to replicate an emergency that any driver might en-counter. It involves the driver suddenly turning into the opposing lane to avoid an obstacle and quickly turning back into the original lane. The Samurai was run through the course, which had been used for 15 years, 37 times. It did not roll over once even though it was driven at a higher speed than other cars that were tested. Kevin Sheehan, a CU test driver, said the vehicle "never felt like it would tip over." Another driver, Rick Small, gave the Samurai CU's highest stability rating, saying it "corrects quickly" and "responds well."
Suzuki charges that at this point Landau threatened his testing staff, saying, "If you can't find someone to roll this car, I will!" David Pittle, CU's technical director, tried nine times to roll the car over without success. He finally succeeded in getting it to tip up by turning the car so sharply that it went off the test course. A video shows onlookers cheering and yelling, "Yeah!" One said , "I think I got that, I think I got that."

donfromnaples · Jul 11, 2008

I was wondering about the bashing as well. I mention that CR doesn't mention anything about the liklihood of a tdi version of the Tiguan and quote them exactly from their First Drive and from their Road Test from 2006 as you had aluded to, and then you say I am cherrypicking and lying. Here is an excerpt from their small car chart of 2006:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/

1Honda Civic EX (man.)
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva]•[/FONT]

81.

$18,810

http://forums.tdiclub.com/2Mazda3 i (man.)

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva] [/FONT]

78.

17,290

http://forums.tdiclub.com/

3Honda Civic EX
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva]•[/FONT]

78.

19,610

http://forums.tdiclub.com/4Ford Focus ZX4 SES

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva] [/FONT]

77.

19,080

5Volkswagen Jetta TDI
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva]•[/FONT]

75.

24,580NA
6Volkswagen Jetta 2.5
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva]•[/FONT]

72.

Notice no red check mark next to the Jettas. That means they are not recommended as I stated earlier.

donfromnaples · Jul 11, 2008

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/past-road-test/small-cars-206/ratings/latest-ratings/index.htm

tiguando · Jul 11, 2008

jvance said:
You mean like they were wrong about the Accord diesel?

Technically we are getting the European Accord diesel as the Acura TSX diesel in 2009 and maybe the American Accord diesel in 2010.

I asked around at a few VW dealers and they all said the Tiguan diesel would be here next year. They also said they have received a tremendous number of people asking about it, at least as many as those interested in the Jetta diesel if not more and that this has not gone unnoticed.

I also asked about diesel versions of the Rabbit and New Beetle and they said they had not heard anything so I don't think they were saying a Tiguan diesel is coming just because it makes sense.

So I think we'll see one but my guess would be late 2009 as a 2010 model given the demand in Europe.

BeullerTDI · Jul 11, 2008

who really cares what CR says. i own one and have been very satisfied with it. it compares to the BMW X3 but $15K less. as far as the TDI rumor, the local dealer doesn't have ANY info on them, neither does the VW rep... but that is not really any major surprise.

donfromnaples · Jul 11, 2008

I do care what message is getting out to the public about certain vehicles. Many people seem to take what is reported by CR as gospel. I won't get into their research and reporting flaws. I will say that their selection of adjectives and use of misleading graphs are unethical and unprofessional.

jvance · Jul 11, 2008

donfromnaples said:
I was wondering about the bashing as well. I mention that CR doesn't mention anything about the liklihood of a tdi version of the Tiguan and quote them exactly from their First Drive and from their Road Test from 2006 as you had aluded to, and then you say I am cherrypicking and lying.

When you cherrypick and lie, expect to be called a cherrypicker and a liar. It takes real skill to pull a few negative but true comments from mostly positive reviews and then piss and moan about how CR is unfair.

You pulled up the 2006 article, instead of the most recent assessment. In 2006 the Jetta was a new model, and the previous model was unreliable. The Jetta is RECOMMENDED now because it has demonstrated improved reliability. I've told you this several times, and you continue to repeat the same lie.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/models/new/volkswagen/jetta/overview.htm

It's rated HIGHER than the Corolla, which is NOT recommended because it is a new model with no reliability data.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/models/new/toyota/corolla/overview.htm

donfromnaples · Jul 11, 2008

Excuse me. I was replying to your post, "Yeah boy they really trashed the E320 Bluetec didn't they? And the 06 Jetta TDI, and the 02 Golf TDI. Oh wait - THEY DIDN'T." This is why I submitted CR quotes on the 2006 Jetta Tdi.
Someone else already asked you why you are being so harsh in your posts, so it isn't just me reading into it.
I am suggesting you tone it down.

jvance · Jul 11, 2008

donfromnaples said:
Excuse me. I was replying to your post, "Yeah boy they really trashed the E320 Bluetec didn't they? And the 06 Jetta TDI, and the 02 Golf TDI. Oh wait - THEY DIDN'T." This is why I submitted CR quotes on the 2006 Jetta Tdi.

Yes - you took a few quotes from a mostly positive review of a car rated overall Very Good as proof that CR trashed the Jetta.

Ok, maybe I'm coming on a bit strong calling it lying. But it isn't honest arguing, and I'm calling you on it.

I am suggesting you tone it down.

I will if you start arguing honestly, look at the links I gave you, and acknowledge that you're wrong.

jvance · Jul 12, 2008

Blue_Hen_TDI said:
It can't be denied, though, that CR, at least in the past, has had an agenda in their ratings. Their obvious big black eye was the manipulated testing of the Suzuki Samurai, where the drivers just couldn't get it to flip, but a very demanding director made them invent manevers that had never been tried before to finally forcefully get a tip to complete the hit piece for the magazine.

http://www.aim.org/aim-report/aim-report-a-black-eye-for-consumer-reports/

Accuracy In Media is a shill group that advocates Government media control and once claimed that Kenneth Starr was involved in the coverup of Vince Foster's murder by the Clintons. What you read was a fair representation of Suzuki's case. The one that it lost in every court for 10 years until it was finally dismissed in 2004. Of course, Consumer Reports claims it was nothing but a SLAPP case and it has its own side to the story:

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/19970422/press001971.html

http://www.calbar.ca.gov/calbar/2cbj/96feb/2cbj11.htm

A Suzuki internal memo dated July 14, 1985 (a full three years before CU conducted its tests) in which an executive wrote: "It is imperative that we develop a crisis plan that will primarily deal with the 'roll' factor. Because of the narrow wheel base, similar to Jeep, the car is bound to turn over. That's one reason they have reinforced the interior with a roll cage. "Further in the document, the words (original in all capital letters): "IT IS IMPERATIVE THAT WHENEVER THE CAR IS PHOTOGRAPHED, THAT ALL FOUR WHEELS BE ON THE GROUND!!!"

Rod Bearing · Jul 12, 2008

donfromnaples said:
Now the 2009 Tiguan according to Consumer Reports. First, I guess they do report on "rumors": "It arrives first with the familiar 2.0-liter turbocharged four-cylinder, and a diesel version arrives later."But potential buyers might be in for a bit of sticker shock", "fuel economy is not a strong point", "cargo area is modest", "expensive" and this was all determined on a First Drive not a full road test review. Compare with their beloved Honda CR-V, "Fuel economy is good at 21 mpg overall" yet they complained about the 20 mpg overall returned on the Tiguan. CR often uses praise (positive adjectives) to describe the Hondas and Toyotas yet uses demeaning (negative adjectives) to describe VWs and many american makes and models.

Consumer Reports is good for one thing. Bird cage liner. It soaks up bird droppings better than an average newspaper.

I wouldn't trust them to tell me what time of day it is with a Swiss watch in both hands.

Blue_Hen_TDI · Jul 12, 2008

Rod Bearing said:
Consumer Reports is good for one thing. Bird cage liner. It soaks up bird droppings better than an average newspaper.

I wouldn't trust them to tell me what time of day it is with a Swiss watch in both hands.

How about if it was a Toyota or Honda watch?

Blonde Guy · Jul 12, 2008

I liked the review. An SEL is the same price as Acura RDX and Land Rover LR2. CR is saying that it's a reasonable competitor to either one. I think a Tiguan TDI would be even better competition for Acura and Land Rover.

Rod Bearing · Jul 12, 2008

It's not just VW they bash or tilt reviews against for no good reason.

They carefully select the proper rhetoric and insert it as what often cannot be ignored as selective, biased conclusions and pass it along as if fact all the time. They ARE, after all, just a group of people offering opinions. It became obvious at least for me a LONG time ago that they should not be relied upon for reaching accurate, unbiased conclusions.

jvance · Jul 12, 2008

Rod Bearing said:
It's not just VW they bash or tilt reviews against for no good reason.

They carefully select the proper rhetoric and insert it as what often cannot be ignored as selective, biased conclusions and pass it along as if fact all the time. They ARE, after all, just a group of people offering opinions. It became obvious at least for me a LONG time ago that they should not be relied upon for reaching accurate, unbiased conclusions.

It looks like they're going to rate the Tiguan pretty highly. They rated the Rabbit "Excellent", said it was the best economy hatchback by a substantial margin and gave it its highest recommendation. The Prius was rated lower and did not get CR's highest recommendation by the way. They give the Jetta its highest recommendation too.

But, since CR is biased and tilt their reviews, we can't trust them. Obviously the Tiguan, the Jetta and the Rabbit are in reality total crap.

Thanks for the heads up, Rod Bearing. I'll go cancel my JSW TDI order now. Because of CR's disinformation I was about to make a horrible mistake!

I'll also make sure I don't post any more positive VW reviews here, since those are actually subliminal bashing. I'll only post negative VW reviews, because those really mean that the car is fantastic. That will be kind of hard to do since most recent VW reviews by Consumer Reports have been very positive. God, they hate VW! However, since the Routan is just a re-nosed and re-dashed Caravan, we have that to look forward to.

Threeweight · Jul 12, 2008

Blue_Hen_TDI said:
Wow jvance, what did donfromnaples do to make you so angry in your retorts to his posts? Is there some history we're not aware of?

Donfromnaples questioned the accuracy of Consumer Reports. Apparently, thats all it takes. I pointed out that CR's test predicting 10 mpg as the real-world city fuel economy of the Jeep Liberty CRD is vastly out of line with what most owners who participate in the Lost KJ CRD forum experience (including myself), and got a similarly snarky response.

2009 Tiguan: First Drive (CR)

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