1.9 ALH In a boat

Roost

Active member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Location
BC
TDI
1.9 alh
Hello new to the tdi world.


My plan is to use a 1.9 Alh for a 18ft Glass boat with a merc alpha leg. My concerns is reliable power. The boat came with a 120hp 4cylinder however I have a 160hp inline six in it currently. I understand you can get more power out of these but how is the egts under constant load? With the right turbo do you think I would be able to get a cool 160hp? How robust are these engines?



Thanks, Roost
 

jmodge

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Jun 18, 2015
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Greenville, MI
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2001 alh Jetta, RC2 w/.205's 5speed daily summer commuter and 2000 alh Jetta 5spd swap, 2" lift, hitch, stage 3 TDtuning w/.216's winter cruiser, 1996 Tacoma ALh
It’s been done, I think someone in Wisconsin specializes in adapters and such. FYI B.O.A.T. Means Bring Out Another Thousand
 

PickleRick

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Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
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05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
Id worry about the strength of an alpha 1 with diesel vibes at planing speed rpms. Luckily they are a dime a dozen and sei offers a 2 yr no hassel warranty on their alpha one aftermarket legs. Grenade it, ship it back and get a new one shipped back.

You're at 18 ft so it might be ok.


Losing hp in a boat is not always a good thing if you want to go fast. You can easily hit 160hp if you go with a BHW from an 04/05 passat and the mounting brackets would be better mount in a boat.

But the 1.9 may fit your needs and budget fine.


I have a cabin boat i want to put a BHW on but im still working my head around keeping the turbo and manifold cool in an engine bay. With your little boat i wouldn't worry about egts if you're stock turbo and injection system.
 

Roost

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BC
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1.9 alh
Strength may be a issue indeed. If I could some how limit the torque down low with either a larger exhaust housing or fueling. I have no idea whats available with tuning tdi's. I'm not really looking for a crazy hole shot, more to stretch it's legs a bit once on a plane.



Is the BHW some form of common rail engine? I know common rails can also be quieter, what is appealing.


I will be making my own water jacketed manifold most likely and blanketing the turbo housing. Worst case a electric radiator fan will be used.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Volkswagen already has a whole marine engine division. You may peak around and look to see what bits they use before spending a bunch of time reinventing something that already exists.
 
Last edited:

mogly

Veteran Member
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May 27, 2003
Location
Sarnia, ON, Canada
TDI
MKIV TDI + B5.5V AVF/01E
Volkswagen already has a whole marine engine division. You may peak around and look to see what bits they use before spending a bunch of time reinventing something that already exists.
While I would agree with this concept, have you seen the cost ? Top shelf stuff no doubt but better be sitting down when you price shop.
 

Roost

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1.9 alh
The boat isn't worth it, neither do I have that kind of money. I don't mind a project.
 

PickleRick

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05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
Another member on here made a water jacket manifold. It does keep engine bay temps down but kills the turbo. You need heat to spool that turbo. Unless you want to play with the injection system and play r&d with the turbo size it will be easier to find a way to bring in and pump out fresh air.


Oem vw marine stuff is stupid expensive. If anyone could afford that the people posting these builds would be on the hullthruth forum showing off their factory diesel inboard donzi or shamrock or.simiar boat, not on here asking questions.

The weight and power of these tdi engines seem perfect.

The 1st boat i bought to do this conversion had an alpha i feared would not last. It was 26 ft. I also found it had q galvanized tank so no diesel in that boat.

I found a 2nd boat with a Volvo 290. The Volvo penta 290 came being anything from a 4cyl to a big block Chevy to a diesel and also came duo prop so proper gearing can be had and the duo prop will help with planning time as well as top speed.

The alpha one did come matched to a 454 on some boats but they were known to be brittle.

You may be ok but its a weak point. You dont have v8 hp but you'll have near v8 torque.

The pd bhw can is factory 130ish hp. 170hp with a tune. No engine beefing or mods needed aside from balance shaft delete.
 

PickleRick

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Nov 29, 2017
Location
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05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
Keep in mind most factory diesel boats are true inboards, not the inboard/outboard like your alpha/bravo/volvo penta and omc. They have transmissions that provide better gearing and better prop selection. They are also usually slow displacement keeled boats. There are lines of ib/ob stern leg set ups for boats but we're taking 20k up for these set ups and many are not known for reliability, especially newer ones.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
While I would agree with this concept, have you seen the cost ? Top shelf stuff no doubt but better be sitting down when you price shop.

I have no doubt, however you can sometimes find some pieces used that can make the use of your car engine into a boat go much easier. I was able to find a few bits and pieces through a couple different places. We had a customer buy a whole used, blown up (from neglect) Pathfinder engine which was an old version marine engine by a different company. He got it cheap, less than $1k shipped to the shop, and we stripped it down and put an AAZ 1.9L in its place (the original engine was a 1.6L). But all the stuff, the mounts, the brackets, the cooling system, etc. all bolted right up.

There is zero chance that for $1k someone could have built all the parts we got, which included the water cooling system's water jacketed exhaust manifold, the two stage pump and thermostat, the giant oil pan with scavenge pump, remote mounted twin filters, etc. All genuine VAG parts that fit perfectly. The only issue we ran into was the vacuum pump "hole" in the block of the original engine was smaller, and it used the same drive gear as the old Rabbits that had no power brakes. But the AAZ has a larger hole, and the old non-vacuum pump drive gear would not work. We did have to machine a spacer sleeve to make that work, because I could not just leave the AAZ's vacuum pump in place in the block to drive the oil pump because the marine cooling system ran a pipe right over that spot and it would have been too much work to change all that.

If nothing else, you can at least look to see how it is arranged. Boat parts are always priced stupid high, like dirt bike and ATV parts. Because they know these are generally a frivolity and people will pay for it.
 

PickleRick

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Nov 29, 2017
Location
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05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
Were those pathfinders non turbo? I looked into getting a manifold from a European scrap yard but could not get info on it being na or turbo.

Blaast turbo claims to have a water jacketed cooled turbo that would work well om on a 2.0 diesel but i wood then need to be able to tune myself to get the injection system dialed in. I know of no local diesel tuners although i suspect a long weekend on a lake getting paid might tempt one to travel if enough cash is provided.
 

jmodge

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Jun 18, 2015
Location
Greenville, MI
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2001 alh Jetta, RC2 w/.205's 5speed daily summer commuter and 2000 alh Jetta 5spd swap, 2" lift, hitch, stage 3 TDtuning w/.216's winter cruiser, 1996 Tacoma ALh
A word on Volvo or omc outdrives if you aren’t aware, expensive and complicated. Water pump is located in the upper drive unit. Difficult to get, 2x plus on costs for 1/2 a unit compared to mercruiser. Nice unit though I have on in an 18’ Kayot, affectionately referred to as Old Moldy. As noted by Picklerick, different gearing exists, higher for v8’s lower for 4’s. His point about outboard drives is a good one also. Which won’t apply to your glass boat though. I always thought TDI would make an excellent boat motor
 

jmodge

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Location
Greenville, MI
TDI
2001 alh Jetta, RC2 w/.205's 5speed daily summer commuter and 2000 alh Jetta 5spd swap, 2" lift, hitch, stage 3 TDtuning w/.216's winter cruiser, 1996 Tacoma ALh
Help IDing this hose fitting

Couldn’t figure out how to provide this link with my phone, but if you google it along with TDIclub it should come up. I believe there are some links to builds in there also
 

jmodge

Top Post Dawg
Joined
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Location
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TDI
2001 alh Jetta, RC2 w/.205's 5speed daily summer commuter and 2000 alh Jetta 5spd swap, 2" lift, hitch, stage 3 TDtuning w/.216's winter cruiser, 1996 Tacoma ALh

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
VAG's "official" Marine Diesel endeavor started in 2002, but they've also been selling engines to many others for a long time. Their Industrial Engine division has been in operation since the fifties.

Many Linde fork lifts use VAG engines, too. There are also commercial water pumps, gensets, and other items that are powered by Volkswagen engines.
 

jmodge

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Location
Greenville, MI
TDI
2001 alh Jetta, RC2 w/.205's 5speed daily summer commuter and 2000 alh Jetta 5spd swap, 2" lift, hitch, stage 3 TDtuning w/.216's winter cruiser, 1996 Tacoma ALh
If I remember correctly, there were ocean going vessel applications on that list along with several Cummins in commercial apps. A fellow had an ALH in a tt here at Kirk’s gtg, he bought six from a military auction. Was told they were intended for generators
 

Roost

Active member
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Location
BC
TDI
1.9 alh
I think im convinced, going to start collecting parts over summer and make it a winter project.



On a side note I wish I could use a 4bt, that's something im more familiar with. The weight and torque though.
 

PickleRick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Location
Greenville sc
TDI
05 GLS BHW sedan 5 speed conversion. BHW Carver SantaCruz in progress
The 4bt came in marine 250 hp packages. It Would most certainly eat an alpha drive for lunch!
 

mogly

Veteran Member
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Sarnia, ON, Canada
TDI
MKIV TDI + B5.5V AVF/01E
I have no doubt, however you can sometimes find some pieces used that can make the use of your car engine into a boat go much easier. I was able to find a few bits and pieces through a couple different places. We had a customer buy a whole used, blown up (from neglect) Pathfinder engine which was an old version marine engine by a different company. He got it cheap, less than $1k shipped to the shop, and we stripped it down and put an AAZ 1.9L in its place (the original engine was a 1.6L). But all the stuff, the mounts, the brackets, the cooling system, etc. all bolted right up.
There is zero chance that for $1k someone could have built all the parts we got, which included the water cooling system's water jacketed exhaust manifold, the two stage pump and thermostat, the giant oil pan with scavenge pump, remote mounted twin filters, etc. All genuine VAG parts that fit perfectly. The only issue we ran into was the vacuum pump "hole" in the block of the original engine was smaller, and it used the same drive gear as the old Rabbits that had no power brakes. But the AAZ has a larger hole, and the old non-vacuum pump drive gear would not work. We did have to machine a spacer sleeve to make that work, because I could not just leave the AAZ's vacuum pump in place in the block to drive the oil pump because the marine cooling system ran a pipe right over that spot and it would have been too much work to change all that.
If nothing else, you can at least look to see how it is arranged. Boat parts are always priced stupid high, like dirt bike and ATV parts. Because they know these are generally a frivolity and people will pay for it.

Yes, I'm also familiar with the Pathfinder 1.6D. I have one sitting here on a skid. I have a omc140 in a 23' Starcraft Islander that I'd love to dieselize. You guys must have run the PF 1.9 AAZ in NA form?
 

dogdots

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Sep 4, 2002
Location
Kansas City
TDI
None
I was saving back a BHW to convert my Playcraft I/O pontoon. Unfortunately Perry Lake, where my boat spends the season in a covered slip, doesn't have diesel available at either of the marinas. My pontoon has a Mercruiser 3 liter iron duke 4 banger attached to an Alpha.

I haven't seen the trailer since right after I bought the boat, the marina I slip in takes care of the storage, getting it ready for the season, launching into my slip, and winterizing and indoor storage. If I were the type to haul and launch my boat for every outing I would have converted it already.

I like reading these TDI marine conversion threads, and am a little jealous I don't have the time or a good reason to do one myself.
 

Roost

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Mar 4, 2019
Location
BC
TDI
1.9 alh
So I finally found a engine for the project. It's a 03 ALH with 11mm pump.

Now im trying to get together a plan for 140 to 160hp.

Would a small set of compounds using the stock turbo be what im looking for? I have compounds on my Dodge 5.9 and know how well they work for that application. The vvt turbo is where im scratching my head, sounds like a recipe for high drive pressure? I was thinking of a He221wg as the atmosphere turbo. Reason why Im thinking compounds, is the application. I want it to be clean, cool and reliable. Any thoughts?
 

[486]

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Joined
Mar 1, 2014
Location
MN
TDI
02 golf ALH
Would a small set of compounds using the stock turbo be what im looking for? I have compounds on my Dodge 5.9 and know how well they work for that application. The vvt turbo is where im scratching my head, sounds like a recipe for high drive pressure? I was thinking of a He221wg as the atmosphere turbo. Reason why Im thinking compounds, is the application. I want it to be clean, cool and reliable. Any thoughts?
throw away the stock turbo, right off the bat
I've done exactly that setup, stock turbo with all manner of TD04s (what the tiny holsets are based off of) and the vane mech does not last long, nevermind how restrictive the stock turbos are, and the fact that the compressor is already too big for the tiny turbine, making horrible boost creep inevitable even without an atmospheric turbo helping it along

the absolute smallest HP turbo I'd run especially on a boat would be a 5cm he221, and for the LP you can run basically any pickup truck takeoff. I was running an 16cm hx40 atop a td04hl19t5cm (ever so slightly smaller than the 221) and it was a great match. Now I'm running a he351wg because it had a smaller housing for quicker response, also a great match though you can certainly feel the added restriction of the smaller exhaust housing on the top end.

people here always recommend turbos that are tiny because they're stuck in the mindset of a small car with a manual transmission that'll be cruising at about 25hp and you want instant response because of all the gear changes
where with a boat you'll be cruising at full power continuous, meaning you need a much larger turbo to be efficient and furthermore snap-response is an absolute non-issue when compared to reliability at high output
 

Roost

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1.9 alh
Thanks for the input! I was under the impression atop truck turbo would be over kill for my power goal? As long as it gets on a plane and runs cool im happy. I think ill be getting a he221 at the very least for fixed housing simplicity.

Do you mean a he351cw? if so the hx35 I have sitting around that would be comparable. has little less cfm compressor side and looser exh side.
 

Roost

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1.9 alh
Gotcha. I might try this hx35 pared with a he221 then, it's just fab work at that rate. The 221 would probably make a good single if it doesn't work out.


Ill be posting pictures as I go along. with how busy work is, it will be slow going.
 

Roost

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BC
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1.9 alh
Size comparison between a undressed 24v 5.9. Even a 4bt would be a monster compared to these little guys. Perfect for a light weight boat..




 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
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Canada
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TDI
No concerns about reliabiity from a TDI as a boat application. Key will be matching your propeller and reduction ratio to the output curve of the engine. A gasoline engine will be quite different from a Diesel, and even a 5.9 Cummins that redlines at half the RPM of a TDI.

A watercooled exhaust manifold is a big need in the TDI marinization space. The Pathfinder ones from the 1.6 IDI bolt up but are like trying to find hens' teeth. I've been searching for a OE VW Marine one, PN 064121201, but these are even rarer and what can be found are selling for well over $2000 for used parts (!!!). I could design one and find a small-volume foundry to cast a run but will still be quite expensive and my observation is that most people doing these swaps are after doing them at the bottom dollar. :( Boating is not a cheap hobby, folks!

A post above mentioned the problem of poor performance and results integrating a turbo with a watercooled exhaust manifold. It is not a fundamental engineering or thermodynamic issue other than one usually of poor turbo matching (again the find-whatever-in-the-junk-yard mentality noted above and bigger-must-surely-be-better) and boost/fueling control (since many swaps are mechanized TDIs).
 

Roost

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1.9 alh
I got a couple gear sets laying around for the upper, something I will have to fine tune. Rpm is the big reason I think I can make this tdi work. Even if im turning only 4k at wot I feel the boat will be moving along decent with the right prop and gearing.
Heat will be a issue being a glass boat. I will attempt to make my own manifold out of stainless sch 40 elbows and box it in for water side. Turbo im not too sure, heat blanket I suppose with adequate ventilation. I could weld a water jacket on the housing but would rather not if I don't have to.

I'm on Vancouver island.
 
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