Webasto Install Kit

kwgilpin

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2003 Jetta GLS
For those of your who have installed Webasto coolant heaters, did you find it was necessary to work from the official car specific installation kits sold by Webasto? I ask because I have a (50% biodiesel capable!) heater unit on the way from Germany eBay, but it does not include any of the coolant hoses, wiring harness, dosing pump, 7-day timer, mounting bracket, etc. I have found other sources for most all of these parts, but nothing as formal or complete as the car specific kits sold by Webasto.

My biggest concern is not having the car-specific molded coolant hoses. Can I get away with genertic coolant hose from my neighborhood auto parts store?

Are there any other unique parts included in the car-specific kit that are absolutely necessary?

Has anyone else succeeded in a Webasto install by individually assembling all of the parts from eBay?

Finally, can someone scan and post their Webasto Thermotop C install manual for an A4. It'd be helpful so that I can double check that I have everything I need.
 

Birdman

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Near Hagerstown MD.
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The hoses in my kit were just plain heater hose. Nothing needs to be formed. You would do better having the wiring kit with the relays because it makes a cleaner install but if you know what you are doing it should be OK.
 

kwgilpin

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Location
Bishop, CA
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2003 Jetta GLS
Are the relay sockets attached to the wiring harness, or are they separate?

Any chance that you still have your install instructions, Birdman?
 

Birdman

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Near Hagerstown MD.
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Jetta 2001 Died by Truck one snowy day. Jetta 2003
I will look to see if they are still around. also the wiring above looks like an old one. Mine was a lot different. I believe you can buy just the harness from Webasto which would simplify things for you.
 

mtltdi

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Canada
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2003 Golf GLS, Indigo Blue
The kit was mfg in 2005 so I'm not sure if it's that old. I have the antena adapter from the crap North American Remote in there too, that's long gone.
 

Birdman

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Near Hagerstown MD.
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Jetta 2001 Died by Truck one snowy day. Jetta 2003
I did read that they changed the harness. One of the guys here sent an old 1 back and the new one was easier to use IIRC. It should not matter as long as you take your time and keep the install clean. I am using the American remote with no problems. Seems to have plenty of range what was yours doing. I do have most the parts for the OEM remote install I bought off Ebay-DE but never got the Ant. needed so am just going to sell the VW remote.
 

kwgilpin

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Location
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2003 Jetta GLS
Birdman,

Do you know when they changed the harness or how to identify one from the other?

Also, which remote setup are you considering selling? Is one of the Telestart models? If so, I might be interested.

-Kyle
 

mtltdi

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Canada
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2003 Golf GLS, Indigo Blue
My remote wouldn't work reliably from inside the house, in view of the car. The T100 is a nice toy.
 

Birdman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
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Location
Near Hagerstown MD.
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Jetta 2001 Died by Truck one snowy day. Jetta 2003
My Ant works well from 50 feet away but I have the Ant. in the car installed up near the head liner. The one I bought off German Ebay was the OEM VW. It has the Euro 2 way Ant. 2 boxes 1 is a splitter, I think for the euro phones and radio and the remote. Lito who was going to help me hook it up said it was all that was needed except the big ant that people use for the Nav. radio and some wires. All of it is new I can send you pictures if you want.
I made the picture of the harness larger that mtltdi showed and it look pretty much like mine as best as I can anyway. All the wires were hooked together making it a clean install though it took a good part of the day running the wires to the tank to run the aux. pump to the heater and the wires to the heater switch to warm the inside of the car up. Lito was the real expert on the install as he had done 4 or 5 before mine but he is no longer around. I can copy the install manual and mail it to you if you PM me your address.
 
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duncgee

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Jan 4, 2007
Location
Orkney
My biggest concern is not having the car-specific molded coolant hoses. Can I get away with genertic coolant hose from my neighborhood auto parts store?
I am probably too late again, but in case not...and it might help future installers.

As far as I know the kit I fitted to the Jetta was a generic kit, but I have never seen another Webasto. I had to make up brackets from 1/8" x 1" flat bar but everything else was in the kit. The hose had a U bend near each end. It was all one diameter (1" ? to fit the Webasto) but there were adaptors to fit it to the Jetta hose which was larger (1 1/4" ?) I'm sure your local parts store will have hoses that are suitable but you may have to use connectors to join hoses together to get the shape of runs you want. The wiring loom cables all had much more length than needed. There are yards of cable tied up under the dash.

I connected to the fuel supply at the line coming down from the tank. I think if I did another install I would tee in after the filter. It would be much easier and the Webasto would have a filtered fuel supply.


Has anyone else succeeded in a Webasto install by individually assembling all of the parts from eBay?
I also thought about buying from German eBay too. The kits on there seem to have all the parts included, Wiring, hoses, etc. Some have the T100 remote. Magic! I bought my kit from the UK


Finally, can someone scan and post their Webasto Thermotop C install manual for an A4. It'd be helpful so that I can double check that I have everything I need.
I think everything in my manual is in this pdf
http://techwebasto.com/heater_main/technical_publications_germany/Workshop/63378A.pdf
The wiring diagram on page 701 is very useful. From page 801 is installation although it is headed "Servicing"

Some links to pages that I found useful.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/1305Standheizung_supplement.pdf Webasto install but I didn’t always follow the method shown.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=215209 Direction of water flow

http://www.techwebasto.com/marine_main/blueheat/9012207C_2007.pdf Parts list

Here is the link to my questions during my Webasto install
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=228459
 

Birdman

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Location
Near Hagerstown MD.
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Jetta 2001 Died by Truck one snowy day. Jetta 2003
Those are some good papers to have, Mine only came with the install sheet. The one paper I would really like is how to hook up the telestart remote. I am using the Webasto one right now but I spent over 250 on German Ebay for the VW telestart. 1 Antenna 2 control boxes which I am not sure which one does what and the remote itself. I have been told that The Antenna needed for the US is the Triplex one. Did anyone get the complete manual for hooking up the Euro telestart remote.
 

duncgee

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Jan 4, 2007
Location
Orkney
Birdman said:
I spent over 250 on German Ebay for the VW telestart.
What one did you buy? I got the T100 so the fitting may be different.

The T100 has a self adhesive antenna which sticks to the top centre of the windscreen. The instructions are very specific about the distance from the top edge of the windscreen, something like 20mm. Cant be sure as the instruction booklet is a few thousand miles away!

The cable from the antenna I just pushed into the gap between the windscreen and the trim using a credit card. It went to the receiver which I fixed under the dash using an existing bolt or screw.

The loom which came with the T100 as I recall has three ends. I think there was a wide plug on this loom that connects to the receiver.

I think the other two plugs were similar but the color of the wires showed which one to connect to the main loom.

The other plug I believe could be fitted to the digital timer which I did not have.
Quote from my own install thread:-
"There is also another brown wire and a violet wire taped back and not connected to the plug."

I had everything laid out on the floor to see what connected to what, then I labelled all the plugs using masking tape.

I hope the above is some help. Sorry for being vague in parts but a few weeks seems to dim the memory even more nowadays.
 

kwgilpin

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Sep 5, 2007
Location
Bishop, CA
TDI
2003 Jetta GLS
Thanks for the all the replies, folks. My heater arrived in the mail from Germany yesterday, so now I'm trying to pull together all the other parts that I need for the install. Several questions:

1) Concerning routing the Webasto harness into the cabin: In my car, the hole in the firewall above the go pedal is already filled with several wires (EGT thermocouple and FM-100 side load heater). I plan to route through the watertight box in the plenum. In general, how do I deal with the existing wires that run through one of the grommets? More specifically:
a) Do I cut the existing grommet off the existing OEM wires?
b) How do I re-thread the OEM wires through the new grommet? Do they unplug from inside the watertight box?
c) What's the part number for the new grommet?
d) Why, exactly, do I need a new grommet?

2) How does the Webasto thermostat get wired into the vehicle's electric system? The Webasto manual shows it conanecting to an electrical bus labeled "61". What is this bus? tonglsi's document suggests splicing into the blue wire of the alternator harness. What is this wire?

3) What's the part number for the grommet the tongsli suggests using when passing the fuel dosing pump wires through sheel metal near the back seat (pg. 29)?

4) Birdman, I PM'd you my address. Can you still send me a copy of your install documents? If you don't object, I'll convert them to a PDF for all to see. Also, as I do my install, I plan to write a detailed how-to for other to use.

I'm sure I'll have more questions as the time gets closer. I'm aiming to do the install over the Christmas holiday.
 

mtltdi

Veteran Member
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Apr 1, 2003
Location
Canada
TDI
2003 Golf GLS, Indigo Blue
For Q3,
I passed the wires into the cabin right next to the existing wires. I put some silicone around the cover to keep any fumes out of the cabin.
 

kwgilpin

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Bishop, CA
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2003 Jetta GLS
Wow, lightning fast response.

Existing wires for what? (I haven't rooted around under the back seat much.)
 

mtltdi

Veteran Member
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Apr 1, 2003
Location
Canada
TDI
2003 Golf GLS, Indigo Blue
It's these 600 email notifications that I receive every day.

There's some wiring there, maybe for fuel level sensor?
 

duncgee

Active member
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Jan 4, 2007
Location
Orkney
kwgilpin

1) I routed the wiring harnesses directly from the engine bay into the cabin. Like yours the hole in the firewall above the go pedal was already filled with several wires (Greasecar system) However below and behind the air filter there is a grommet through which passes a thick loom but the grommet is even larger allowing space for many more wires. I pushed a long thin sharp screwdriver through this grommet from the cabin side, this punched a hole through but the grommet is made from very flexible material so it closes around any wire pushed through.

2) My memory is not at all good but I cannot recall having to connect to "61". Check what wires you have.

From memory and my install thread this is how it went
A. Two unusual plugs with wires in one wrapping. - For the Webasto heating unit - Plugs wont fit anything else
B. Single brown wire. - Ground (Underneath battery)
C. Single red wire. Heavy wire - To terminal 30 under the dash.
D. Brown and blue in one wrapping. Light wires - Supply pump.
E. *Red and black heavy wires in one wrapping. - Between fuse 25 and the heater fan. (Red to heater fuse and black going to heater switch)*
F. Light wires - red, black and brown in one wrapping with small four pin plug. To Telestart reciever. (There was also another brown wire and a violet wire taped back and not connected to the plug. I believe they are only needed when the Webasto is operated with the digital timer.

Extra info on *E. I cut the existing wire going to the heater fuse (fuse 25. The wire color is black with light blue tracer) and joined the red to the fuse side of the cut wire and the black wire to the other end of the cut wire.

There was not much spare wire between the fuse and the wrapping of the harness and because of this I had a failed connection. If doing another one I would pull the wire from the terminal behind the fuse and connect the black Webasto wire to this end. I would then fit a new length of wire going from fuse 25 to the red Webasto wire.

Probably a different type of terminal is needed to fit the fuse and stay in the car fuse block.

3) I passed the wires through the cover under the back seat. The wires for the fuel gauge sender are already there and I put the fuel dosing pump wire alongside, added a layer or two of duct tape to give extra protection and used more duct tape to hold the cable in position. I followed the sender wire until the front of the seat squab, there is a ledge there, perfect to run the cable across the car to then run the wires under the plastic trim below the doors at the left side of the car.

Again if I did another one I would do it differently. I would tee the fuel dosing pump into the existing fuel supply line going from the filter to the injection pump. Keeping it in the engine bay would make both the wiring and plumbing much easier, and the fuel would be filtered. I've seen posts from other members who have successfully done it this way.

I hope the above is of some use to you. I know I needed all the info I could find.
 
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kwgilpin

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Location
Bishop, CA
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2003 Jetta GLS
Thanks for the additional info. I'm sure the wiring info will come in handy.

Today I stopped by my local Webasto dealer (American Auto Aftermarket) to look at what's included in a generic Thermo Top C installation kit for which I was quoted $260. It was surprisingly little:

* Wiring harness
* Heater mounting bracket
* Fresh air / Exhaust tubing
* Small bag of assorted nuts, bolts, clamps, etc
* Flexible heater hose
* Fuel pick-up

Things that I had hoped would be included but were not:

* Timer (Oval or 7-day)
* Fuel pump and bracket
* Fuel hose
* Air intake
* Exhaust muffler

I'm sure that the Mk4 Jetta kit is similar, and it costs $250. Before seeing the kit, I was quite excited, but given that it is missing a timer (temporary until I get a telestart module) and pretty much everything fuel related, I think I'll opt for buying from a European eBay site. My eBay'd heater came without the coolant circulation pump, so I need that as well. From the dealer, that alone was $210. I'm gussing that the fuel delivery pump would be another $100+. I think I've found everything that I need for about $300 on eBay.

More questions and updates to come.
 

mtltdi

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Location
Canada
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2003 Golf GLS, Indigo Blue
I have a dumb question...why is your coolant pump not attached to your heater? (Maybe mine was already installed because it was pulled from another car)
 

duncgee

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Location
Orkney
Mine was new and the pump was attached to the heater.

I had a look at this pdf
http://techwebasto.com/heater_main/technical_publications_germany/Workshop/63378A.pdf
Page 201 shows the Thermo Top Z and the Thermo Top C, the only apparent difference is that the pump is attached to the Thermo Top C

I'm pretty sure you could attach your pump to the unit. If you dont have the bracket it would be easy to make one up.

The pump has an end plate with the hose connector, this is held on with four screws. I wonder if the plate could be rotated on the pump to align the connector to suit the direction of hose run.
 

kwgilpin

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2003 Jetta GLS
I bought the heater from Germany eBay knowing that it came without the pump. Why I do not know. Although it seems that most heaters offered on Germany eBay come with the pump, I wanted the particular one that I purchased because it was the Diesel/PME type rated for 50% BioD, and it was virtually unused.

I've since ordered the pump with orthogonal ports pictured in my post above (UK eBay for 35 pounds). I plan on making my own bracket out of a piece of stainless shim to hold it to the heater in the typical spot. In the Webasto parts list PDF posted in #12, I found just the end plate hose connector that duncgee mentions. The typical pump end piece in which the inlet and outlet ports lie in the same plane is part number 93011C (pg 143). The end plate that comes with the pump I ordered, (in which the inlet and outlet ports form a right-angle), is part nubmer 93012C.
 

duncgee

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Location
Orkney
kwgilpin said:
Another question for all the experts:

If the inlet port of the coolant circulation pump is located at the "bottom" of the pump (i.e. it is axially oriented instead of radially oriented) will I run into clearance issues during the install?

A picture of the pump in question:

(http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/AltCoolantPump.jpg)
From your latest post I now understand why you were asking about clearances. I cant see any problem there.

However if the pump is mounted in the usual position on the unit I take it that the inlet will be on the top of the pump and pointing up. There could then be the risk of a trapped air bubble in the coolant, perhaps an air lock. It would depend on the routing of the hoses. There is not much spare space about there so the hoses have to fit under the headlight unit or battery tray.

The Webasto instructions say something about having the hoses sloping upwards to the car engine to reduce the chance of an air lock. I would have to see it, and I may be wrong, but in my mind I have a picture of your inlet hose going up in a loop - perfect for creating an air lock.

The £35 wont have cost too many dollars now. At the current exchange rate each pound will cost $1.50, a few months ago it was over $2.00. Good for you in this purchase but bad for me when I visit the US
 

kwgilpin

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2003 Jetta GLS
How is the Webasto normally oriented when mounted on a A4? I have yet to see a clear picture. The easiest way to answer that may be by specifying which way the connections for the wiring harness point (to the front of the car, to the left, up, to the right, etc.).
 

duncgee

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Location
Orkney
I knew there was a picture somewhere on the forum but took a while to find it. Post #8
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=98739&highlight=webasto

I thought the fragile plugs and black plastic were rather exposed in the case of a fender bender, when fitted in this orientation. I fitted the unit with the plugs towards the wheel and back of the car.

As I recall the instructions listed the different orientations it could be fitted, and those which must not be used. I think this was to prevent air locking.
 

kwgilpin

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I like the idea of mounting the heater so that the wiring extends from the unit toward the wheel (back of the car). With that orientation, and the pump I've ordered, the inlet should point horizontally toward the front of the car. I do not believe that it will point upward.

I'm still waiting for parts to arrive, but I'll take lots of pictures when I start the install.
 

mtltdi

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Apr 1, 2003
Location
Canada
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2003 Golf GLS, Indigo Blue
I'm not sure wiring is much of an issue, the connectors have nice little gaskets on them so I think they're relatively safe. I used to have an alarm siren down there before the webasto, and water and grime will get everywhere, whether it's facing the back or the side.
 
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