Injector Pump Problems

98JettaTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2000
Location
Elyria, OH
TDI
1998 Jetta
I have a '98 Jetta TDI, 68500 miles.
Has anyone experienced problems with the injector pump? My dealer is telling me it needs replaced at $3500!! This seems rather high to me. Shouldn't this be covered by the warranty?

thanks
 

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
It is HIGHLY unlikely that the pump is bad. All kinds of other things can be wrong which make the ECU think the pump is bad even when it isn't. The dealer service goons just go by what the computer tells them even when common sense dictates that the computer is wrong.

What are the symptoms?

Brian P.
'96 Passat TDI mit UPsolute
 

santacll

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 6, 1999
Location
SK. Canada
TDI
15Jetta_HL, 14_GSW_WBurg
Ok depending on where you live and subject to the kind of fuel you've been using, it is not unusual to have and inj pump fail... failure is usually the result of poorfuel not providing the lubricity that the pump needs... hence a lubricity additive is highly recommended, there have been numerous failures up here where it gets really cold... and the feedstock ins't as good as it used to be... yeah sulfur....

but everyone is right, an ijection pump is about 1000.00, and a local diesel shop sould be able to service yours before you give those dealer thieves any of you sheckels


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c.l.
99B5 1.8T lux silver, 94 golf TD GL
loved and sold, 83 scirroco,86gti,86 jetta gli, 87 scirroco 79 rabbit diesel
 
M

mickey

Guest
I don't know whether the injector pump is covered under the powertrain warranty or not. I suspect not.
www.vwparts.com would be a better bet for a brand new pump. The dealer will rape you on that deal. Even better still: Locate a Bosch factory service center and have them rebuild your pump.

All this is assuming the pump is actually bad. It's possible, but unlikely. What are the symptoms? These pumps are essentially the same as the ones on Dodge Cummins turbodiesels. A Cummins diesel repair facility might be able to diagnose it more effectively, once they get over laughing. (They're used to BIG diesels!)

-mickey
 

98JettaTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2000
Location
Elyria, OH
TDI
1998 Jetta
The problem/symptoms are as follows:
I started the car and it rev-ed up to about 3000 without my touching the pedal, then it returned to normal idle. Upon driving it lacked acceleration, it didn't pull beyond 2000 rpm's. Up until that point I had not had this problem. I live in Ohio, so it does get cold here, but on this day it wasn't too bad. The dealer I took it to (different from my regular dealer), indicated that the timing belt had never been changed! Nor had any of the filters! According to this dealer, none of the schedule maintenance other than oil and oil filter change had been completed!! I had noticed a marker drop in fuel economy on my fill-up before the above problem.
 

Turbo-DI

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2000
Location
Stuart,Florida,USA
All you need to do is take your pump to a authroized Bosch dealer they can run there own tests on the pump to find out what is wrong with it. Heck it would be cheeper to have your pump rebuilt or at least repaired rather then letting the dealer bend you over contact Bosch and Get you pump Looked at. I have a friend who owns a company who is a authroized Bosch, Lucas Etc, dealer and i have had a pump rebult on my 1985 vw diesel and it is a heck of a operation testing and rebuilding about 10,000 parts in these pumps pretty neat operation.
 

98JettaTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2000
Location
Elyria, OH
TDI
1998 Jetta
Nope. The dealer said "the diagnostics said the injector pump was bad".


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Karl Roenick:
Do you get a check engine light?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
 

reddiesel

Active member
Joined
Mar 15, 2000
Location
Ottawa, KS
TDI
1999.5 jetta tdi
My diesel injection pump was replaced under warranty with 16,000 miles on my 99.5 jetta.

My vag-com said code 17656 (p1248).
This could have been
1. Cold start injector bad.
2. Needle lift sensor (inj #3) bad.
3. plugged fuel filter
4. No fuel da
I checed the above and so did the dealer.
Dealer replaced the pump with 038-130-107DX
This was a remanufactured pump (ie the x).
I said I expected new. Read your warranty. It state fix or replace. They replaced with a fixed one. Anyway the rebuilt from a dealer is 1500. The new ones are 3500 (from a dealer). Don't think they won't try to charge 3500 dollar for a 1500 rebuilt.

The new warranty still covers my bebuilt for 100,000 miles.

The pump solved the problem...Perhaps it was part of the pump electronics because earlier my computer was replaced on this car.
 

Karl Roenick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 22, 1999
Location
Clifton Park, NY, US
Where is the car, at home?

Did you make sure all the electronic connections to the pump are good-maybe take off the connectors and put them back on again.

Where do you live? Maybe there's a Fred's member nearby with a code reader.
 

chopchop

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 24, 2000
Location
Here (Calgary) & There (Blighty)
Someone gave me some good advice some time back:
"If you ever have a problem with a diesel fuel system on your car, particularly the injection pump itself, the very LAST place to take it to or seek advice from is the car dealership." They are almost invariably totally clueless on diesel matters, and will end up fleecing you for their BS & incompetence.

As the guys above have said, take it to a diesel specialist, usually the nearest Bosch/Lucas or whatever, Service Centre.
 

98JettaTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2000
Location
Elyria, OH
TDI
1998 Jetta
Karl: Car is still at dealer. I'm in Ohio.
I have done any work on the car as I have no experience dealing with diesel motors. I'm beginning to see some education is in order.

Richard: This is the first mechanical problem I've had with the car. I took it in to the dealer because I didn't know their level of ignorance until now. Unfortunately I didn't find this site until after I began searching for ammunition for when try to lay a line of b.s. on me. I will be going to a diesel specialist.
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
Our local BOSCH authorized diesel engine service shop just so happens to be the Mercedes Benz dealer in town. MB used all BOSCH diesel injection pumps here in USA, so that is an excellent place to find a real live trained diesel engine mechanic. BOSCH USA's website also has a state by state listing of every authorized shop too.
 
S

SkyPup

Guest
click here for intelligent highly trained authorized BOSCH service:

[ur]http://www.boschservice.com/bs1.html[/url]
 

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Before going any further, check the O-ring on the fuel cutoff solenoid!

Search these forums for "fuel cutoff solenoid" or "O-ring" and you'll find the do-it-yourself instructions.

Brian P.
'96 Passat TDI mit UPsolute
 

Karl Roenick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 22, 1999
Location
Clifton Park, NY, US
It's a tough spot. Even if you pay all that dough, it still could take a while. You're just trying to get other opinions in order to make a prudent decision. Do you have a place and desire to work on it yourself?

1. The car is used? Can you talk to the previous owner about what was done to the car. Just because it's not in the vw database, doesn't mean it was not done.

2. Can you ask the dealer that did the diagnosis for an analysis of why exactly they say the pump is shot? Maybe including a printout of the diagnostic computer. They really should have this if they're going to make such a drastic recommendation as this.

3. Perhaps another VW dealer's opinion could be obtained. Tell them ahead of time you're very interested in seeing any computer printouts and analyses of results, since you'll be paying for this.

4. It is indeed possible to look at a diagnostic computer, (either VW's or the $200 vag-com program that runs on a laptop) to see if the pump is injecting fuel within permissable limits, and if the two electronic components relating to injection quantity control and measurement are within specification.

5. You are living on borrowed time if the timing belt wasn't changed yet.

6. If they made a mis-diagnosis, something fixable, (by you), could be the problem. It might be a good sign that there was no check engine or glow plug light.

7. As far as what else could be wrong, if they totally blew the diagnosis:

a. I don't know what other conditions could cause the revs to increase like that without any pedal. Maybe the accelerator potentiometer is messed up. Anyone else?

b. As far as loss of power goes, you need to check the complete air flow path and also the fuel path. So new filters and clearing any clogged screens and possible soot accumulation in the intake.

c. You need to get someone with a diagnosis computer to check things too. There's a whole list of things in the Bentley CD, that one could go down, like fuel flow, air flow, boost pressure, timing, etc at idle and at full throttle.
 

Spooky

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 19, 2000
Location
Butler, PA
Hey 98,

There is a Bosch service center called I. B. Diesel on Rt. 422 in between New Castle and Youngstown. It's maybe 5 miles from the state line on the PA side. Their number is 724/658-9858.

Your dealer is trying to give it to you up the @$$. Good luck.

FTM


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2002 Golf GL TDI if all goes according to plan...
 
M

mickey

Guest
Definitely check the o-ring on the fuel cutoff valve. The repair may end up costing you 50 cents...or even ZERO if the ring has just slipped out of it's slot.

No "pull" above 2000 rpms? Does it fell normal below that speed? Could be a turbo problem. (That would be bad.) Doubtful, though.

Whatever you do, get the car away from the freaking dealer! They have absolutely no clue. If it IS a pump problem, get your original pump rebuilt by a Bosch service facility. Anything you buy from the dealer will be overpriced.

-mickey

p.s. Never had the fuel filter changed? The first things I'd try would be the o-ring and a new fuel filter. Then get a whole huge bottle of Power Services fuel additive and dump it into a full tank of fresh fuel.

[This message has been edited by mickey (edited December 06, 2000).]
 

WOOCHOW

RIP, Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Feb 20, 1999
Location
Griswold, CT USA
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS-GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN
Sounds like the classic O-ring problem to me. Mine failed three times so far. I'm at 72,000 miles. The last time I replaced the fuel shut-off solenoid along with the O-ring and I haven't had a problem for quite awhile. Tell your dealer to stick that $3,500.00 pump in his brown eye!

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1998 Black Jetta TDi
Bilstein HD Struts/shocks
TDi Tuning Box
 

Karl Roenick

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 22, 1999
Location
Clifton Park, NY, US
I would be so cool if a little thing like the fuel shut off solenoid would be the problem. There are a couple of guys with your vintage car saying it sounds just like the problem they experienced first hand.

Question for WOOCHOW: Could this problem cause that one-time revving to 3000 rpm? Maybe that's when it got out of whack.

PS: DUH on me. I just read the faq at http://www.tdiclub.com/TDIFAQ/TDiFAQ-8.html#d

It would be so cool it this would be the fix.

[This message has been edited by Karl Roenick (edited December 07, 2000).]
 

Turbo-DI

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2000
Location
Stuart,Florida,USA
It Sure would be nice if it was the o-ring problem.

But Stray away from the dealer if it does become a injector pump problem and take it to a Authroized Bosch dealer and let the diagnose the pump they know a lot more then the VW dealer knows about the pump..

never know they just may need to adjust your pump toss it onto the testing machine and make sure it pumps the correct ammount of fuel when it's supposed to.

i dont know much about these pumps but i have watched pumps and injectors get rebuilt and tested..

just my 2 cents


Thanks
mark
 

GeWilli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 6, 1999
Location
lost to new england
TDI
none in the fleet (99.5 Golf RIP, 96 B4V sold)
Diesel Injection Service Co Inc

4710 Allmond Avenue
Louisville , KY 40209-0389, United States
Tel1: 1 502-361-1181 Fax: 502-364-3200
Email: sbaileydislouisville@compuserve.com

These guys are the closest Garrett Turbocharger distributor to Ohio - I don't know how far away you are maybe too far but it is a start . . .

have you called any of the close Bosch service centers?
Ohio Bosch Service Centers
This sounds like a job for them. although if it is a turbo place I would try the kentucky folks.
 

98JettaTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2000
Location
Elyria, OH
TDI
1998 Jetta
UPDATE:

Dealer is now saying the Fuel Cut Valve is what needs to be replaced.

I haven't had any luck with Bosch Service Center: none have any experiece with TDI's.

I'm also having difficulty finding a diesel service center with experience replacing timing belts on TDI's.

If anyone knows of service center in the Cleveland, Akron, Lorain, or Northeast Ohio area that does timing belts without raping and pillaging my wallet I would greatly appreciate hearing from you.

An alternative would be to replace this myself. If anyone lives in the northeast Ohio area is willing to assist, please let me know.

Dealer is supposed to have the above repair finished today, I will update when I hear from them.

Thanks for the help everyone.
 

GeWilli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 6, 1999
Location
lost to new england
TDI
none in the fleet (99.5 Golf RIP, 96 B4V sold)
actually probably o-ring I would guess not whole cut-off but no big deal.

it might be worth it for you to drive to teh Toledo repair place that The Ripster has used - either that or hook up with Drivebywire and pay his token fee . . .
 

98JettaTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2000
Location
Elyria, OH
TDI
1998 Jetta
Karl:

Dealer stated that on older TDI's this part was built in to the injector pump, and they thought my TDI was like this.

I'm picking it up today, so I'll see how it drives. They claim its fixed.

Now I have to work on the timing belt. I found on place that said "about a couple hundred" I don't have much faith that they have much experience with TDI's though.
 

Turbo-DI

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2000
Location
Stuart,Florida,USA
Glad to hear it's the fuel cutoff solenoid!!


you need to give the Bosch service center the pumps model number not the engine type!


My 2 cents

Great News!
 

WOOCHOW

RIP, Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Feb 20, 1999
Location
Griswold, CT USA
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS-GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN
Karl, the classic sysmptom of the O-ring failure is that when you tart the car, the revs immediately jump to around 3000 rpm and then everything settles down to a nice, smooth idle. But when you start to drive, you notice the car way down on power, with a top speed of about 55mph. When it first happened to me, I immediately though the wastegate for the turbo had become stuck open. When I brought it to the dealer, they said I had overfilled the crankcase when I changed the oil and the intercooler was probably filled with oil-they would drain and clean it for $100. I've never been back. Karl, I have a nephew who, I believe, lives in your area. He's a TV meteorologist on one of your local stations. His name is Steve LaPointe, have you seen him?

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1998 Black Jetta TDi
Bilstein HD Struts/shocks
TDi Tuning Box
 
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