TDI WVO Damage survey

BioDiesel said:

And since the WVO is garbage

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Actually the reason we're all having problems with renderers and may be paying for WVO at some point is it is a mature business to collect WVO. You can argue the renderers were making a killing (making people pay for disposal and selling to feedlots, etc. on the other end). Grease is traded on the commodities board, it is hardly garbage. Some restaurants treat it that way and thank God for renderers charging to pick it up... Once the renderers start paying for the grease we'll all be a little sad. It is happening in some areas already.

Hi quantum.

I agree with your comments.
I was trying to point out that WVO doesn't have any emissions 'load'
if you account all the fertilizer, transport emissions to the food end of the cycle.

I think the best possible emission would come from running bd in an SVO system.
The heated bd would atomize better and produce les PM.
I wouldn't be surprised to see someone do this someday.

We're seriously beating a dead horse here.

Re " ..beating.."

One last whack.

" it is hardly garbage."

All the WVO that I get _is_ garbage. I pull it from dumpsters.
If I don't intercept it, it goes to the trash-to-energy plant to be burned.
By a rough guess, I suspect 10-20% of the WVO produced locally becomes 'garbage'.

Have you ever done a pH test? Do you add the baking soda just to reduce the pH level? I suppose that if the oil is basic, it isn't as bad as being acidic for the motor?

Great setup! I think a lot of people don't pay attention to the fact that grease turns acidic from deep frying (probably bacteria related...) and eats the injection components that weren't designed to handle acidic fuels.

Thanks,

Jon

Bump. WVO Damage

This thread should be a sticky. I have yet to find anyone on this forum running WVO in a tdi for more than 50,000 miles successfully. If anyone is here, please report back and let us know.

My personal experiment with my 2001 TDI is in progress. The details of my setup are basically like any good two tank american system -- heated tank, heated filter, aluminum hose in hose fuel line, veg therm for extra kick, 2 three port hydroforce valves, veg oil looped into heated filter. I pugre wvo back to wvo tank for about 10 - 20 seconds before switching do diesel to minimalize cross contamination. I am in TN where it does not get real cold. Startup fuel high blends of commercial biodiesel usually. I pan tested all but a couple tanks of oil i got from a friend that i put in it and it was all crackle free and filtered several hours through a 5 or 1 micron nominal filter bag as i was drying the oil. Then filtered again as i pumped into car.

I always said i would get an elsbett system if i ever greased out a TDI but then I was reading how elsbett recommends two tanks for wvo since it is more viscous and it can't hurt either so i said well i have to do the two tank system anyway so i might as well do that first. My system costs 700.00 all said and done and that is half of elsbett system. Plus, greasecar and frybrid was so successful and i figured people just must be getting along fine in their american wvo system tdi's so i thought, i'll give it a try and be part of the experiment. In the name of shadetree science (and fun) i greased out my TDI with a heated fuel system only. No real studies i have found document what happens when you run straight hot filtered WVO in a TDI without modifying the engine components. This is what american wvo systems are. They are not conversions. They are just putting hot oil in your engine.
Everything else aside, that is what i wanted to find out, does this work good or do you need to modify injectors and other things.


I wanted to pop test injectors before i started but i figured they could not be bad with only 63,000 miles so i did not bother getting the pop tester set up and resolved to test soon after. I changed my oil and switched over at 63,000. It runs real smooth great initially. If i never think about it all is great. If i think about it and listen, after a few thousand miles i think i hear a little extra injector nailing on wvo. I changed oil at 5,000 miles. Another 5,000 miles go on wvo. No problems but it seems a little louder on wvo still. No louder than before but i notice it if i look for it. If i dont look for it i dont notice anything. It could all be in my head. I changed oil again.

When i run out of WVO i drive on b99 for several days to work and back and i think i notice it is a little easier to start. Hmm, injectors clogging a little. So i play around a little more by driving 3-5 miles before shut down on (bio)diesel insted of 1 - 2. That seems to help. Seems to start normal most of time except when cold, cranking is slow. I wonder if it could be just battery or if it was slow to crank anyway before wvo. I did not have the car last winter.

So last week, real slow crank. I put wifes jetta on it to jump. Still slow crank. It is not battery. THere are about 13,000 miles on wvo of last 18,000. I have not flipped the switch since. I have driven 250 miles on about B20 and the car seems to get easier to start. I am waiting for a real cold morning to say for sure. I told my wife and my friend to not flip the switch on theirs. We all have exact same system and have been using same oil. They have only 1500 miles or so on wvo. No damage done yet.

I will pop test the injectors and compression test all cars before we flip switch again. In my experience, i did everything that could be expected from a two tank wvo user, and i think the injectors just cannot take it and an elsbett system will have to be added. That is a good idea in any respect but it would be nice to know if it was necessary. So from here if compression and injectors check out on my car, experiment goes on and maybe i try diluting wvo with biodiesel. I bet 10 to 1 an injector is clogged though. In which case, i can happily say, i tried and i know you need injectors designed for WVO in a TDI and if compression is good and my engine is not damaged i will be very happy.

That is my story. i'll keep you all posted. I would love to here from others who have been using wvo for longer than i have how they are doing.

"I have yet to find anyone on this forum running WVO in a tdi for more than 50,000 miles successfully. If anyone is here, please report back and let us know."

Ok, now, seriously, have you looked?

Cause if I haven't personally bragged here about being at 76,000 WVO miles
on a bi-weekly basis, I'd be amazed. You're not looking.
Tell me you never saw this link before:
http://ctbiodzl.freeshell.org/votdi.html
I just did a search on it and came up with 2211 hits here alone.
If you Google "WVO TDI" guess which link comes up first?
[and no, I haven't paid Google.]

I've provide links to half-a-dozen SVO or trucks cars with 200,000 + miles,
and an equal number of TDI's with 100,000+ miles.

I know of several who post here regularly, Chasee for one who has more miles that I do. Or memphis_tdi who has 50,000 ON BLEND.

Well, I did your work for you, maybe that was your intent.


"I was reading how elsbett recommends two tanks for wvo since it is more viscous"
I'm an Elsbett Servicepartner. Els. does not rec. two tanks for any reason, except where a single tank conversion
cannot be done. It does not even sell d-t kits for older M-B's or TDI's older than 2004.


2212:

Drivers Log
First 1K miles. No driveability problems. It began to take 1 - 2 seconds of cranking to start, and there was a cloud of smoke at startup too. I now do 2 glow plug cycles and it starts quick w/o smoke. [Update: One g.p. cycle is enough. I was used to the 2-3 second instant on cycle time of stock TDI's. I now wait 10-15 seconds and it starts w/o smoke the first time.]
July 1st. LEAK! Just discovered my fuel pump is leaking wvo at the top cover. Damn. I'll attempt to seal it with a new seal made of Viton. Update. Security bolt socket on order from www.metalnerd.com., as is a new top cover gasket from Bosch. Since many other BOSCH FIP's have failed the same way running on petro diesel, this may not be bd or wvo related. Once I see the gasket, I'll know more.
July 28th: Replaced another gasket in the fip. This one is where the main body joins the housing that contains the fuel shutoff solenoid and the 4 injector ports. It's a std O-ring, but was now a "D"-ring. It was flattened where it contacted the cylinder pump wall. I just removed the connector bracket and the bracket at he bottom that holds the timing adjustment screw on the right side of the fip ( as you face it from the front of the car). IWhile the pump is not leaking there are 6 other O-rings in the gasket kit, so they are probably shrunk too. You'll need a #25 or #27 Torx bit. Preferably mounted in a socket. And a 5 or 6mm hex bit, also mounted in a socket. Mark all positions of the bolts as you remove them as they are different lengths. Pull the housing out and it will slide off a shaft inside the fip. This shaft has a collar on it. The collar has a detent that holds a thin rod that descends from the top of the pump. Make sure that the rod is in the detent when re-assembling.
[Update: 11/05 A friend was not so lucky when removing his dist. head to replace this seal. Several small pieces fell out internally. The whole pump then had to be removed and the gasket replaced and re-assembled.
[Update: 5/06 - I just read online of another TDI owner with a f.i.p. leak that temporarily sealed it by adding in a bottle of "Transmission Stop-Leak". This transmission treatment swells seals, and apparantly can do the same to fuel system seals. IMO, faster reslults might be had by adding 1/2 a bottle directly to the fuel filter, and letting it idle for 5 minutes, then sit overnight.
I'll post pictures too. The top cover area has a gummy film that wouldn't come off easy with carburator cleaner. The cyclinder was clean w/o any corrosion or deposits. Cleanliness is important. I sprayed all parts off with carburator cleaner before re-assembly. The BOSCH gasket kit is p/n 2467-010-003. Try your local BOSCH service center. I ordered mine from H.G. Makelim Co. in San Francisco CA. 650-873-4757. They're very helpfull and know what they're doing. I'm running it on bd for the next 2 months. I have a new gasket soaking in a jar of wvo, to see if it shrinks. [Update: 11/05. Gasket ok after 2 1/2 years in wvo.] The car is running fine. Because I didn't move the main body, it doesn't need to be retimed.
Sept. 2 2004 - Experiencing occaisional power dips above 3,000 rpm. Replaced fuel filter, air filter and cleaned snow screen and MAF. The fuel filter had a little sediment and white flakes in the water trap, but NO water. The air filter was dirty. Both filters had 20k miles. Cleaned the MAF with aerosol electonics cleaner from Radio-Shack. Flushed out some soot. Result: Hooray! Power is restored! Top speed of 95 m.p.h. That's better.
Oct. 2004 - No more problems with the fuel pump. The gasket half submerged in wvo has also not shrunk, so I believe the original gasket shrinking was not due to wvo use.
November 2004- Cold weather brought a new problem while running 100% wvo. When temps dropped into the upper 30*F's, the car could not go faster than 65 mph. The engine power would fade. Added 10% gasoline and 10% kerosene. Still had the problem on cold days. Added 10% biodiesel and no more problems running on the highway. However on mornings, the car won't go faster than 40 mph before it's fully warm for several minutes. It's time for the long delayed block heater. After installing a 1500 watt Zerostart 'tank heater' from J.C. Whitney, cold startups are no longer a problem. It's capable of warming the engine from 50*F to 180*F in 20 minutes.
November filtering - Cold temps's made the wvo too viscous to flow using my hand rotary pump and cartridge filter. Now filtering using filter bags into buckets. I use a 100 micron bag in side 1 micron 4" and 7" filter bags from mcmaster.com. WVO is siphoned from my 30 gallon wvo barrels. Flow is very slow, about one drop / second, but I can collect a gallon / day in two buckets.
March 22 2004 - One year aniversary of the start of the conversion. 10k miles so far, no problems. Still running 80/20 wvo/kerosene, although I did use 60/40 in January and February.
May 2004 - 11k miles. Running pure wvo now that temps are above 50*F. No leaks. Changed oil and fuel filter. Chugging along.
Sept 1. - 15k miles. No problems so far. I got a lot of water in this summers wvo due to the placement of the barrel under the restaurant's eaves and no gutter. So I let the tank go to 1/8th full and put in 10 gallons of biodiesel in the hope it's hydroscopic properties will absorb any free water. Oil level ok, not going up. Long term gasket soak in wvo still good too, the gasket is unchanged from a year ago. I also was filtering several gallons/day this summer to support my F-250 which is on loan and running on a 50/50 wvo/diesel blend w/o switching tanks.
Oct. 2004 - 17k miles. No problems.
Jan. 2005 - 19k miles. No problems. Burning 75% soybean/p. hydrog. soybean/canola with up to 5% gasoline, 10% kerosene and 5% naptha ( Coleman fuel ) . Started the car cold once at 40*F with barely a ruff idle.
Mar. 2005 - 20k miles. No problems. Running 10-20% kerosene as temps vary from 30*F down to 10*F. A report warning of gasket shrinkage due to ULSD from New Zealand is online. I think that's what happened to me and others who have used biodiesel or ULSD fuel. The new gasket is still unchanged after 18 months of sitting in a jar of wvo. I just found a lot of single-tank system in N. Europe online too. I'm confident it will work w/o coking and fip damage if I get the wvo up to Weihenstephan standards. I'm going to order an acid kit from BioCar and start de-watering the wvo.
May 2005 - 20k miles, no problems. Inspected the intake at the EGR valve. As clean as on B100 biodiesel.
Aug 2005 - 25k miles, no problems. A shop tested the fip injection quantity and it was in spec. I ran 520 miles, mostly at 65-75 mph with 3 adults and the A/C was on. I estimated about 40 mpg.
Oct 2005 - 28k miles, no problems. Had to replace the sacraficial filter after only two months. Also replaced the main filter after about 15k miles. I had a glow plug error and pulled the g.p.'s to check them. They looked normal, just a little blackened and some flecks of brown powder. No erosion of the tips. Also bought an IR thermometer. When fully warmed up, the fip surface read 135-140*F. So the vo inside is probably at 150*F, the minimum safe temp. for vo.
Jan 2006 - 31k miles, no problems.
Jan 16 2006 - A new driving style. Up to now I had always driven from home and pre-warmed the TDI before I left for errands. Now I'm working and commuting to a place where I can't plug the AC heater in and pre-warm the engine before I return home. So the fuel must be thin enough to a) not freeze when temps are below 10*F, and also is not too thick so that the fuel pump isn't damaged by fuel that is as too viscous. I'm guessing that if a WVO and kerosene blend had the same viscosity of B100 biodiesel, it would no be a problem to start it cold at 10*F. So I diluted the WVO with 30-40% kerosene. For two weeks it has been fine. No smoke at cold start, and it fires up instantly just as when it's pre-warmed. No problems or side effects from running 40% kerosene. Lubricity will be more than adequate. Studies have shown only 2% VO is needed to provide proper lubrication in un-additized petro diesel. And I have 60%.
Mar 2006 - 34k miles, no problems. Adding cetane booster exhibits more power above 3,000 RPM.
Mar 2006 - 35k miles. Suddenly lost power in the morning commute through Hartford. I quickly got in the breakdown lane, popped the hood and opened the valve on the spare fuel filter. Finished commute. I replaced the sacraficial filter that night. Next day it happened again. Same routine. This time I replaced the main fuel filter. I drained the filters and found small dark flecks/ particles in the fuel. Probably an algea bloom. I remembered filling with wvo that was cloudy, and not the usual clear , translucent brown. I got a bottle of diesel fuel bio-cide and added an ounce or two to each tank at refills. The third day, I had a different problem. The engine would stumble when revved above 3,000 RPM, or accelerated. I came home on the back roads. The problem was that the engine was sucking in air and this caused the sudden stumbleing. Once I got home I replaced the sacraficial filter again. I had mistakenly replaced it with a larger sized one, and this cracked the fuel line, allowing in air ( VW TDI's suck the fuel into the engine ). I had used a 3/8" filter instead of the the correct 5/16" inlet f.f.
Apr 2006 - 37k miles. No problems.
May 2006 - 38k miles. No problems.
July 2006 - 42k miles. No problems.
Aug 2006 - 44k miles. Replaced both fuel filters due to loss of power.
Sep 2006 - 47k miles. Replaced both fuel filters again due to loss of power. I noted that I had switched sock filters and was using a cheaper non-absolute 1 micron filter. I rembered seeing visible sediment in the filtered wvo, something I never saw before. So I believe the non-absolute filter caused the rapid fuel filter plugging. I have switched to virgin soy oil for the time being. When I go back to wvo, I'll double up the the non-absolute filters or use them as a pre-filter inside the old absolute rated filters. I also cleaned the MAF and snow screne and replaced the air filter. I did a top speed test and hit 92 m.p.h. up a slight hill. Same top speed as at 60k. miles before biodiesel or conversion
Oct 2006 - 49k miles. No problems.
Nov 2006 - 50k miles. No problems. 40*F now, running 20% ULSD
Dec 2006 - 51k miles. No problems. 40*F now, running 20% ULSD and plugging in the coolant heater at home and at work ( with a long extension cord ) for 30 minutes before startup.
Jan 2007 - 53k miles. No problems. 30*F now, running 25% ULSD pre-heating at work.
Feb 2007 - 55k miles. No problems. 30*F now, running 20% ULSD pre-heating at work.
Mar 2007 - 56k miles. Fuel almost jelled when I was running 80/20 and left the car outside and temp.'s fell to 8*F / -20*C. The car was plugged in and started ok, ran about 2 miles then the engine sputtered and died. Luckily I wsa able to coast to within 100 meters of a gas station, and got a helpfull push to the pump. I added 3 gallons of diesel. While waiting for it to thin the svo canola/soy/diesel blend, I manually pumped very thick fuel to the filter using the Elsbett priming pump. After 5 minutes of that, I tried to start the car, and surprisingly it started and ran fine. I continued to pump fuel for another couple minutes. The VW TDI recirculates warm injector fuel to the fuel filter. That helps prevent jelling. I drove on main streets past several gast stations for the next couple miles in case the engine had problems again. After 10 minutes of running I was confident it was fine and hopped on the highway at went to work. That unexpected cold period was too cold for 80/20. A safer ratio for temperatures that low would be 60/40 SVO/diesel.
Ap 2007 - 59k miles. No problems. Temps, above 35*F, running 100% VO, plugging in first to pre-warm to 70*F.
May 2007 - 61k miles. No problems.
June 2007 - 63k miles. No problems.
July 2007 - 65k miles. Poorly filtered WVO caused an early fuel filter replacement. No more cheap non-absolute filter socks for me. I'll double or triple the remaining ones up.
Aug 2007 - 66k miles. No problems.
Sept 2007 - 68k miles. No problems.
Oct 2007 - 70k miles. No problems.
Nov 2007 - 72k miles. No problems.
Dec 2007 - 74k miles. No problems.Running a blend of 86% soybean oil, 10% kerosene, and 4% gasoline when temps go below 18*F. Running 96% SVO and 4% gasoline otherwise with temps as low as 25*F.

biopete said:

This thread should be a sticky. I have yet to find anyone on this forum running WVO in a tdi for more than 50,000 miles successfully. If anyone is here, please report back and let us know.

My personal experiment with my 2001 TDI is in progress. The details of my setup are basically like any good two tank american system -- heated tank, heated filter, aluminum hose in hose fuel line, veg therm for extra kick, 2 three port hydroforce valves, veg oil looped into heated filter. I pugre wvo back to wvo tank for about 10 - 20 seconds before switching do diesel to minimalize cross contamination. I

Click to expand...

With most two tank conversions on VW TDI's, I believe it is normal to purge for around 30 seconds. I would think 10-20 seconds would still leave a good amount of WVO in the loop and when returned to diesel mode would send it back to the diesel tank and possibly leave WVO in the IP/injector lines/injectors depending on how soon you shut down afterwards. Maybe increase your purge time and see if the starting improves. Mine has started on the first crank after the glow plugs go out in near 0 F temps.

BioDiesel said:

"I have yet to find anyone on this forum running WVO in a tdi for more than 50,000 miles successfully. If anyone is here, please report back and let us know."

Ok, now, seriously, have you looked?

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Seriously , Biodiesel, glad you chimed in since i am hot on the elsbett system atm. I meant without an Elsbett system or similar. I am pretty confident elsbett systems work. I want to know if just Hot WVO systems work ie no modification to engine parts, just a heated fuel system, which is what i have. My intention was certainly not to make someone search for me. I appreciate the links and such but I have read citzs blog for a year now. Seriously it is pretty hard to find 5 people on this forum with non elsbett hot WVO systems that have any serious miles on WVO. I have found like 3 and none of them have reported any data. Chasse just pm'd me a response so i will see what he says.

Re, 2 tank elsbett systems on older TDIs , i know elsbett does not sell them. I'm not sure where i read that they recommended two tanks for WVO. But they don't even recommend or warrant WVO at all. why dont they warrant WVO or even Soy oil? Please can you tell me that? I think cold flow properties and viscosity is one reason but i would love to hear from an elsbett rep. In a single tank system that can be an issue. So, some reason, i think a two tank elsbett system would be better than a 1 tank elsbett system for WVO. I'll pm you some specific elsbett questions when i get a chance as their website is a bit hard to understand in places. I see an upgrades section with 2T that looks to me like it is a two tank upgrade.

cheers

vwcampin said:

With most two tank conversions on VW TDI's, I believe it is normal to purge for around 30 seconds. I would think 10-20 seconds would still leave a good amount of WVO in the loop and when returned to diesel mode would send it back to the diesel tank and possibly leave WVO in the IP/injector lines/injectors depending on how soon you shut down afterwards. Maybe increase your purge time and see if the starting improves. Mine has started on the first crank after the glow plugs go out in near 0 F temps.

Click to expand...

Good idea. I'll try it. How many miles do you have on your system?

I do run on diesel for about 3-5 miles before shutdown. What i thin i am seeing in past few days is each day and have noticed in past when running out of WVO is cold starting improves with more driving on the (bio)diesel. But i'll investigate the cross contamination angle.

thanks

"why dont they warrant WVO or even Soy oil?"
For WVO, It's because there is no fuel standard , certainly to way to enforce
one with people dumping whatever they find in a dumpster into their car!
And it has happened, NCTDIguy is one, iirc.
Whould you warrant your SVO kit for any fuel?
Besides, they're warrantying the WHOLE ENGINE.
Not just $1000 worth of parts.

As for Soy, Els. also has no experience with it as most SVO sold at pumps ( yes they have SVO at pumps in Germany ) is canola.

As a dealer, I would consider proof of purchase of large quantities of virgin canola sufficient to meet Els. warranty requirements

"So, some reason, i think a two tank elsbett system would be better than a 1 tank elsbett system for WVO."

Nope. Thats why they don't sell them anymore. The only diesels requiring 2-tank are the new CR engines.
Or if you live in Canada, a s-t would have to be diluted to 40-50% SVO annualy to keep the tank fuel liquid.

BioDiesel said:

"why dont they warrant WVO or even Soy oil?"
For WVO, It's because there is no fuel standard , certainly to way to enforce
one with people dumping whatever they find in a dumpster into their car!
And it has happened, NCTDIguy is one, iirc.
Whould you warrant your SVO kit for any fuel?
Besides, they're warrantying the WHOLE ENGINE.
Not just $1000 worth of parts.

As for Soy, Els. also has no experience with it as most SVO sold at pumps ( yes they have SVO at pumps in Germany ) is canola.

As a dealer, I would consider proof of purchase of large quantities of virgin canola sufficient to meet Els. warranty requirements

Click to expand...

Understandable. However, have they tested with WVO? It is one thing to not warranty your engine but are they confident the system works with wvo barring the incedentals that us grease renderers must take care of? What is Elsbett's best guess on the effects of Soy? I would think they would have tested some knowing that America uses mostly soy oil.

i guess it really doesnt matter as i am trying it anyway but I just want to see one m**fu***ng kit maker come up with some big numbers on WVO (not SVO).

It is because their kits are made for SVO Canola and not WVO Soy that i think a two tank system with proper injectors and glow plugs would be ideal in a TDI. I get the lowered viscosity hot oil without the care about cross contamination, if i forget to purge or long purge times or cold weather blending. And On long trips I can put wvo in my main tank if i want. Sounds like a winner to me.

thanks

philngrayce said:

I might be a little late weighing in on the WVO discussion, but here is my experience:

2002 Jetta with Greasecar kit installed at 75,000 miles. I now have 175,000 miles on the car. There appears to have been no harm done by the veggie oil. Only repairs to the engine were a starter at 120,000 and MAF at about 165,000. Probably a bit down on power now, but starts and runs beautifully. Blackstone oil analysis shows no unusual wear, (though a possibility of antifreeze in the oil). All very good, I think, for a vehicle with that mileage. Al oil changes done by the book (10,000 mile intervals).

I sometimes wonder if we won't one day decide the engines benefit from the added lubricity of heated vegetable oil.

Click to expand...

Any updates philingrayce? How many of those 100,000 miles were burning wvo vs diesel? 50,000? 70,000? What are your methodologies? purge times, frequent runs on biodiesel or diesel?

thanks

biopete said:

Good idea. I'll try it. How many miles do you have on your system?

I do run on diesel for about 3-5 miles before shutdown. What i thin i am seeing in past few days is each day and have noticed in past when running out of WVO is cold starting improves with more driving on the (bio)diesel. But i'll investigate the cross contamination angle.

thanks

Click to expand...

I am still in the early stages on my Jetta. Only at about 7-8000 miles. The reason I mentioned it is that when I first installed my system and had that "I want to drive on WVO as much as possible" mentality, I tried the 15 second purge and could feel a difference in how it started. Now I never switch until the car is up to normal operating temps(barring this morning, but that's another post) and and do a 30 second purge with a short drive on diesel when shutting down.

vwcampin said:

I am still in the early stages on my Jetta. Only at about 7-8000 miles. The reason I mentioned it is that when I first installed my system and had that "I want to drive on WVO as much as possible" mentality, I tried the 15 second purge and could feel a difference in how it started. Now I never switch until the car is up to normal operating temps(barring this morning, but that's another post) and and do a 30 second purge with a short drive on diesel when shutting down.

Click to expand...

Wait, so you're saying that you switched to WVO right after start-up, not waiting for the system to fully heat up?

I think he's saying he tried that "once".

vwcampin said:

I am still in the early stages on my Jetta. Only at about 7-8000 miles. The reason I mentioned it is that when I first installed my system and had that "I want to drive on WVO as much as possible" mentality, I tried the 15 second purge and could feel a difference in how it started. Now I never switch until the car is up to normal operating temps(barring this morning, but that's another post) and and do a 30 second purge with a short drive on diesel when shutting down.

Click to expand...

Cool. Yeah, i know the feeling. I have tried to avoid that with this car. Driving on WVO is so much fun. I thought a 15 second purge meaning running diesel through veg supply line and then a mile or two drive time on diesel afterwards was enough to purg the engine. But 18,000 total miles of that (13,000) on WVO proves it is not. This weekend i am putting in site filter and actually seeing how long it takes for WVO to clear out of IP. Seeing how fast these lift pump move fuel and how fast i can dump my diesel into my wvo tank, i guessed 15 seconds was plenty. It may be that injectors need to be purged good.

Well, it is official, My car is definitely easier to start after running for a few days on B20. My wvo use was clogging the injectors is the hypothesis. My wife even mentioned that it has been easier to start the last few days. This morning it was 29 F and it cranked in one short glow right away. I flipped to veg after warming up real good today and purged 30 full seconds and drove 5 miles on diesel before stopping. I'll see how easy it is to start after work.

I like Chasee's method of putting diesel purge into new veg filter every time. I still have hope i can get away with not getting elsbett injectors for a while.

Chasee said:

Wait, so you're saying that you switched to WVO right after start-up, not waiting for the system to fully heat up?

Click to expand...

Chasee, it was about a mile after start up, but the temp gauge was about a 1/4 of the way up since I had the Frostheater plugged in. I agree, it is not ideal, but at that point it seemed like the better option rather than being stuck on the side of the road in -14F temps. I would never recommend doing that and it was only done in an emergency setting. I need to change my oil anyway.

to get in on a old conversation

I used to own a B4, and we did a group timing belt day. Some guy showed up and started asking the mechanic all these questions about why his TDI would just die and not work. The Mechanic asked, have you been running WVO? The guy said yes, and the Mechanic basically called him dumb, and he needs a new pump. It was around a 2005 Jetta. That was interesting to see.

Guipo

Guipo said:

I used to own a B4, and we did a group timing belt day. Some guy showed up and started asking the mechanic all these questions about why his TDI would just die and not work. The Mechanic asked, have you been running WVO? The guy said yes, and the Mechanic basically called him dumb, and he needs a new pump. It was around a 2005 Jetta. That was interesting to see.

Guipo

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Wow, that is interesting! The mech can just magically ascertain that he needs a new pump (which pump exactly?) without ever seeing the car. That's impressive, most impressive.

Guipo said:

I used to own a B4, and we did a group timing belt day. Some guy showed up and started asking the mechanic all these questions about why his TDI would just die and not work. The Mechanic asked, have you been running WVO? The guy said yes, and the Mechanic basically called him dumb, and he needs a new pump. It was around a 2005 Jetta. That was interesting to see.

Guipo

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I was in a garage like that ~8 weeks ago. Our company put one of our cars in for repair as the engine was vibrating. Mechanic told him he need a new engine and the quote was sent through to our company, it was nearly authorised until I went down to garage and pointed out that it only need a new engine mount.

The account was removed from the garage. Mechanics like that should be shot.

I have been looking into, and asking A LOT of questions about converting and running WVO in my 2000 Golf TDI. I found a place in Silverlake, CA, that is kind of famous for their conversions of Diesels to WVO. I got the scoop from the mechanic there who was very knowledgeable. But I needed to do a lot of homework.... some of it on this site. I saw this thread, but it was started in 2006 and was 24 pages long. Um, I have done a few days worth of reading, lol. I also saw another Golf parked at the gym where I workout, that sported "WVO" Bumper-Stickers so I left a note on the car to see if the owner would call me and tell me her experience running WVO in her TDI. That, I will post tomorrow after I speak with her. I have also nailed down a supply of WVO from my friends restaurant. So here's why I am telling you all this: Minus the possibility of this girl with the other Golf TDI telling me that it works awesome and has been doing it for years and years problem free- this no longer sounds like a great idea. Not just from this forum, but lot's of others are saying it's a bad idea. There seems to be a lot of evidence of gumming, injector and pump failures and much more. As a guy who can not afford a few Grand to repair something that may very well go wrong down the line because of the WVO conversion, I am no longer willing to do it. And I was SO "Gung-Ho!" about it. As you can see by my long and detailed post, I have been doing week's of research. But I have decided against it- free fuel (with some labor) or not. I want to drive my car until it has 500,000 miles or more. I don't think I'll get there if I switch.
However, I will post what this nice girl tells me tomorrow. And I'm also going to call my mechanic and ask him what he thinks. He's a super good guy and honest, so he won't say "it's ok" if it's not.

I'll update tomorrow.
Thanks for reading, and thanks everyone for all the posts on this subject.

VocalVirgo, If you have those misgivings, you probably should not convert to WVO. But don't give up your interest.

One of the important considerations today is oil availabliity - can you get it in your area, or is it all taken already?

With the current state of WVO research, it is pretty clear that you can convert a TDI to run on WVO and expect it to run for a very long time, likely just as long as running on diesel (though nobody knows for sure). It does require some work, some careful attention to details and a good quality conversion.

I've said many times that money alone is not the reason to convert. Just the same, over the long run you will not save enough to buy a new engine - you will save enough to buy a new car.

Vocal,

That's exactly what this forum is for: you read a load of other opinions and then form your own. If you need the extra push, I push against, only because you are already leaning that way. Don't feel bad, feel good! You made an informed decision...something that is exceedingly rare these days.

I didn't read through the whole thing. I am at 267k miles and I have over 175k of it on WVO. My car runs great! Not a problem yet. I take care of my car. I have the Greasecar kit with minor improved mods. Installed by myself.

MiksTDI said:

I didn't read through the whole thing. I am at 267k miles and I have over 175k of it on WVO. My car runs great! Not a problem yet. I take care of my car. I have the Greasecar kit with minor improved mods. Installed by myself.

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Holy crap, you totally put me to shame!

Please, if you could, post a new thread summarizing your experience. Kind of something like I did back with this: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=1943329&postcount=1

MiksTDI said:

I didn't read through the whole thing. I am at 267k miles and I have over 175k of it on WVO. My car runs great! Not a problem yet. I take care of my car. I have the Greasecar kit with minor improved mods. Installed by myself.

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wow...nice....If you dont have time to do a detailed report, at least provide a brief summary of your experiences, and recommendations.

Steve

You will have to give me some time to think of the little problems and quirks of the system. I barely have time to write this. We have triplets and I work on the Jettas.