Kind of a noob question on cetane and additives

jason0423

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So I just bought my first new tdi and plan to drive it a minimum of ten years, and likely much longer. I've got an '01 beetle tdi i bought used and have a lot less money at risk with that one, so I just fill it at the gas station by my house. One diesel pump, probably has the same diesel in the tank from when it was built. With this new car, I want to know what SHOULD be done. I've got that station by my house, and there's a Loves truck stop by my work. It's a small truck stop, and it's currently closed for some renovation, but they will reopen soon. There's also a BP right next door. Does it really make much difference what I put in, so long as it comes out of the diesel pump? Should i be concerned with cetane ratings?
Secondly, I see a lot of people putting additives in their car. Powerservice, etc. necessary? Every tank?
 

ZippyNH

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I suggest buying from higher volume stations....
This tends to help keep their tanks clean a dry...
When fuel gets wet, it tends to harbor algeee and slime growth...
This can cause issues.

You might notice the car seems to run slightly better when fueled at one location...but most fuel comes out of one if two or three shared pipelines...so Honestly, differences are more about how it was stored locally, and what the local station added. Some add PS or 1-5% bio to add lube to meet the requirements of the diesel spec.
I use power service in the white bottle year round...it has additives that keep moisture from settling out when big changes in temps happen.
Likewise I fuel before the tank is too empty...my gut feeling is foaming fuel with air is bad for the pump.

I do avoid the local gas stations that never seem to have anybody using their pumps....
 

jason0423

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I typically fill up between at between 1/4 and 1/2 a tank. It's a rule my employer has with vehicles, and I've just brought that over into my personal vehicles, too.
My guess would be that truck stops have the most turnover then. There's a station a little bit out of my way near home that has a lot of usage, and separate islands on the other side of the building that have nothing but diesel.

I'll look for some power service. Probably could use something since the car has basically just sat for two years. The dealer serviced the battery and drove it 5 miles once a month during those two years, but still.
 

Jetta_Pilot

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I need to clarify, I do not spend winters in the cold. In October I head south and I return late April.

Since 12 years ago I have been using PowerService in the silver bottle which gives you a higher cetane boost compared to the white bottle.

Silver bottle is for warm weather use !
White bottle is for cold weather use !

PS: I buy my fuel at high turnover stations, one reason for the high turnover is that they offer the best price.
 

MichaelB

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I need to clarify, I do not spend winters in the cold. In October I head south and I return late April.

Since 12 years ago I have been using PowerService in the silver bottle which gives you a higher cetane boost compared to the white bottle.

Silver bottle is for warm weather use !
White bottle is for cold weather use !

PS: I buy my fuel at high turnover stations, one reason for the high turnover is that they offer the best price.
Water is water warm weather or cold it's just that in cold weather it can freeze. Anyhow your fuel pump and injectors don't like water period. High turn over stations can still accumulate water over time. What benefit do you see in a higher cetane than pump fuel? And white bottle also increases the cetane not as much but can you honestly tell the difference?
 

ZippyNH

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The cost is minimal for most additives...
For about 250 gallon of PS fuel treatment it typically $15-20 for the largest typical bottle.
I usually just splash in a dose, with a funnel...I typically use about 2x the suggested level.
Yes...ps has a silver, aka Summer, but lacks the additional additives to keep water in suspension.
The white has this...also has anti gel, admittedly not needed in the summer.
 

Jetta_Pilot

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I've been driving Diesel cars since the mid 1980's and have never ever had a problem with water in the fuel.
 

MichaelB

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I suggest buying from higher volume stations....
This tends to help keep their tanks clean a dry...
When fuel gets wet, it tends to harbor algae and slime growth...
This can cause issues.
And it helps keep their tanks dry by passing along in very small amounts to the fuel you buy hence why I use PS white year round.
 

ZippyNH

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And it helps keep their tanks dry by passing along in very small amounts to the fuel you buy hence why I use PS white year round.
+1
Exactly. The fact you can usually buy it cheap every spring is nice too!! Pick-up a couple jumbo bottles...good for a long time!
My gut feeling is that many fuel pump failure like are from two main reasons...
Running low on fuel....foaming fuel is bad lube...
And water is terrible lube...a slug of it going through a pump is bad...
And after 6 hours parked, and maybe a big temp drop, water settles out if fuel.

PS white helps to prevent the water from settling out...
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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I've been driving diesels longer than Jetta_Pilot and have never had a problem with water in fuel, either. And I do a fair amount of traveling and fuel up all over. I've also never seen water come out of a fuel filter when changing it.

However, I always use a lubricity additive in my fuel. Right now I'm using Opti-Lube, but I've used Stanadyne, Powerservice, biodiesel, even 2 cycle engine oil in the older cars. I don't think it matters what you use, but I do recommend using something.

Having said that, my two sons have driven diesels only since they got their licenses, 10 and 12 years ago, respectively. They don't use additives. And they're usually shopping for the cheapest fuel. No problems, ever.
 

MichaelB

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However said:
I was going to hit on the fact that many here do not use any additives and have had zero fuel issues just like your sons. You use Optilube because you sell it. The only one I use is PS white for prophylactic value against water. That's it in a nutshell
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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I use a lubricity additive because HermTDI recommended it when he did my first timing belt change on IBW in '05. That's when I started using 2 cycle engine oil, at his suggestion. And it did make the car run quieter. Lots of the engine noise an a rotary pump TDI is actually the pump, not combustion.

Since then I've used B20 in the older cars, but switched to an additive only when I got my '12. In that car I was interested in doing whatever I could to maintain the HPFP. I'm not as worried about that now with the '15 or the BMW, but I still think the additive is a good idea.

And I suppose you're right, I do use Opti-Lube because we sell it. It's not uncommon for a gallon or two to get damaged in shipping to us. I have a 275 gallon diesel tank at my house with a pump, so I dose it when I have the tank filled. It's a good way to dispose of the damaged gallons.
 

Rico567

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I use PS white year-round, dosing per package directions. That being said, it's pretty much just peace of mind on my part, to compensate for the reduced lubricity in ULSD and gelling in the winter. I think my biggest "insurance" in fueling is that I use the same local station, and have since the car was new. This station is not a truck stop, but does a very high volume of business. This isn't possible on trips, obviously, but in any case I have kept receipts from all fillups, so that I have a paper trail if there is ever a fuel problem. So far, so good.

NB: I change my own fuel filter, and have noticed zero water in the housing when I shine a light down in there. This last change, there was maybe 1/2 teaspoon of sediment particles on the bottom, which is all I've seen after 60K on the car— so I just ignored it.
 

tdiatlast

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Rico567: Same experience here with water in the filter canister. Anecdotal evidence abounds in TDIClub, saying the same thing.
Not sure where the water is going????
Also, ditto with the sediment.
I used OptiLube for a combined 230k miles or so, 4 diff CR TDIs. No issues, other than heated discussion with several esteemed TDIClub members:D;)
 

ZippyNH

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Fortunately the VW TDI filter sits in a warm location...then excess fuel (heated by the HPFP) is also routed back to the filter, this helps to prevent issues...both in geling and moisture.
The fuel and the filter both gets very warm...and this tends to "dry" out the filter in the canisters a bit.
On vehicles with a remote mounted filter (out of the engine bay) the filters tend to fill with water faster, and tend to get more waxes during the winter.
The water is still getting pushed through the fuel system....
In a truck big 100+ gallon tanks, if they are clean, and an anti siphon devise is not added, you can shine a flashlight and look into the tank...and see the moisture (assuming a clean tank) if the truck has sat for 6-8 hrs...but after 3-4 hours of running, the tanks typically will be warm to touch, and the water in suspension.
Additionally many HD diesel engines are fitted with a clear fuel filter housing...makes monitoring it very easy. I actually wish VW had them too.
 
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jason0423

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I'll buy some. Didn't put any in my first tank, bit I'll buy a gallon or two and a smaller dosing bottle.
 

tikal

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I think, for the most part, we have gone past the type of discussion of "my additive is better than yours" or "my non-additive is better than your additive", etc.

Personally the little inconvenience of adding it to the tank is compensated by the general peace of mind of insuring one of the most sensitive parts of a TDI, the fuel delivery system.
 

PD Rig

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I've tried Pffp, Optilube and power service. They all seems to produce the same effect. Nothing noticable. Not saying that all fuel adds are created equal. You have your emulsifier, demulsifier, solubizers etc. that's all been debated here as to which method of water control is the best, which at the end of the day seems to be left to good old opinion. Some have more lubricity additive, but you can pick which one you want. You really want to just make sure you do not accumulate water in your tank for you lift pump to take a gulp of one day or to have water settling out to be left in your fuel system to cause corrosion. I look at it this way. I want an additive that takes care of water (if any) that has settled out in my tank. I also want to maintain decent lubricity. I found that what makes me feel all warm and fuzzy is a small amount of white power service (water control)and a steady diet of b2-b5. I really wish power service would make strictly water control and I would just use that and b2-b5. As for cetane, You probably will not notice any difference between running with or without. Your combustion cycle theoretically will be more complete with a higher cetane rating. If you put 2 ounces of cetane booster in tank. At least two things just happened. You feel better and your fuel burns a bit cleaner (theoretically. Higher cetane= greater combustibility?)For what it's worth. I still throw a bit of Optilube boost in every tank. I bought 3 gallons a few years ago and figure I should put it somewhere. I have never found any rust in the fuel filter housings of my vehicles so maybe what I am doing is working? I'm pretty sure I did not help answer your question one bit, but unfortunately there is no right answer to this one, other than whatever you use. Do not overdose. More is not better as it will end up in your oil and your engine oil does not like fuel additive in it. It has never happened to me but used oil analysis have attributed unfavorable results to overdosing of fuel additives in some cases. Just throwing some caution to the wind. Have fun.
 
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Jetta_Pilot

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I'll buy some. Didn't put any in my first tank, bit I'll buy a gallon or two and a smaller dosing bottle.
What I do, because twice per year I drive 3,000 miles in 4 1/2 days I carry prefilled 8 ounce Kraft Salad dressing bottles with me. CLEANED out of course.

I put Silver PowerService, 2 ounces of a fuel pump lubricant or 2 ounces 2 stroke oil in these bottles and add one at each fill-up. Maybe that saved my bacon once years ago with my 2002 Jetta when I stopped to refuel in Outer Hicksville, Arkansas where an attendant put gas into my car. Car stopped after about 30 miles and had to be towed in. Fuel tank emptied and I was on my way. Got rid off the Jetta a year ago and still going strong.
 

New Mickey

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Should you be concerned with cetane ratings? Probably not. But if you weren't a bit obsessive you wouldn't have asked the question.

I try to buy my diesel from busy stations or truck stops because I figure the fuel will be fresher. Other than that I don't worry about it like I used to back in the Evil Beetle days. Life is too short.

-mickey
 

Jetta_Pilot

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Well sometimes I wonder about the whole concept of the "freshest" Diesel?
I owned a 35' sailboat with a Volvo diesel engine. Every October we hauled the boats out and they wintered on a cradle, frequently in below freezing weather. Then in April they were dumped back into the water complete with a FULL tank of 6 months old Diesel.
Never a problem.
 

ZippyNH

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Diesel does keep for years if kept dry.... typical in drum or sealed tank.
Gas stations are not sealed tanks...they are open with lids that are semi ok sealing... slightly raised...ease of opening and refilling is more important. The tanks also have a sump system to collect water as it gets into the tank...
HD trucks with large tank openings are typically easy to inspect for coating that forms from growth...likewise the filters are in a clear housing. But boats with Diesel engines typicality have an extra part...a water separator....cars and trucks do not.
The idea if fresh fuel is to get fuel that has not had the chance for any moisture in it to grow algee and bacteria. Jet fuel typically has an anti icing/anti algicide/biocides called "prist" added, sometime preblended, Sometimes at pint of sale....
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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I think people obsess too much over "fresh" diesel. Although new cars are much more sensitive to fuel quality than older cars (or boats, Jetta_Pilot), they still can run on older fuel. My Mercedes (old) recently sat for 24 months before getting re-fueled, ran fine. And I have a B4V sitting in the warehouse (friend's) that hasn't been fueled since 2010. Also runs fine.
 

Eagle456

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Too much fuel additive

I just got my first tdi an I wanted to clean the injectors an I accidentally put too much diesel fuel cleaner in my tank, I finished filling up and when I turn the engine on check engine light came on and it was the code p1248 what should I do. It didn't affect the way it's running.
 

Jetta_Pilot

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I just got my first tdi an I wanted to clean the injectors an I accidentally put too much diesel fuel cleaner in my tank, I finished filling up and when I turn the engine on check engine light came on and it was the code p1248 what should I do. It didn't affect the way it's running.
No harm, no foul.
 

ZippyNH

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Southern NH
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You can run it on straight cleaner...
Some mechanics fill the fuel filter with 100% PS...
Then they start up since they know it is mostly fuel...and filtered...and gives great lube.
Keep an eye out for the code...
Don't think k it's related to the cleaners.
 
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