60 MPG / 900 Mile Club / 1000 Mile Club

I was experimenting with P&G with engine off yesterday (clutch restart rather than keyed restart), compared to my usual P&G in neutral. The trip computer's numbers were 12-16% higher mpg than I'd normally see (far more than I'd expected). Obviously it may be an artifact of the trip computer rather than a real fuel consumption improvement (only a full tank would tell).

If the figures turn out to be real and sustainable, it could convert my 900 mile tanks to 1,000 mile tanks?

Has anyone else tried this technique, and if so, what is the typical improvement you get over standard P&G?

MikeMars said:

I was experimenting with P&G (snip)

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__. Mike, what speeds do you use? That is, if you want to average 60, what speed to you "pulse" up to and what speed to you allow the speed to decay to on "glide"? Thanks,

mrGutWrench said:

__. What pressures are you running now? I found pressures above about 36-37 to be uncomfortable in my '02 Jetta sedan (due to rough ride and "tramlineing" on truck ruts and road grooves). But of course, that was before "+4" and "Series 8" versions of the Michelin "Energie" tire. And I'm not sure that the suspension on that car was really up to snuff; and also your "local conditions" will have a lot to do with it. So, since other people have run quite high pressures without problems, it will be interesting to see what you find when you try higher pressures. Please keep us up to date.

(PS I'm now running 205's - a size up - on my wagon. They're quite a different tire altogether so I can't compare wagon to sedan.)

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I'm still in the experimental stages. I'll finish this tank with 32psi up front and 30psi in back. My max pressure is 44psi. I'm thinking about 40psi up front and 38psi in back. However, I'm a little hesitant about running that much tire pressure.

mrGutWrench said:

__. Mike, what speeds do you use? That is, if you want to average 60, what speed to you "pulse" up to and what speed to you allow the speed to decay to on "glide"? Thanks,

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Hi,

My target speed on the motorway (=freeway) is 55 when I'm P&Ging, so I usually pulse to 60 mph and then glide to 50mph.

If I'm not using P&G, and going steady-state instead, then I'll just hover at a steady 50 mph.

Sometimes I'll vary the speeds according to the conditions, for example if I'm keeping up with heavy-goods-vehicle traffic (which is limited to 57 mph). Similarly on a road with only one lane I may go faster in order not to delay following traffic. I keep an eye on traffic in all directions, particularly behind, and to the rear/right if I'm coming up to a junction where traffic may want to leave by the exit road to the left (accidentally blocking other traffic isn't the best way to be popular on the road!)

I never use normal P&G below about 32mph since there's no point (i.e., idle speed in 5th gear on the level is around 27mph, and that seems to be quite effective), but the engine-off P&G works below this point.

MikeMars - Check out the 70 MPG/1100/1200 mile thread (click on the 75 in my signature).

I did about 400 miles of engine off costing on that 1200 mile tank. Taking idle fuel consumption rate of 0.1 gallons/hour and the average speed for the tank I calculated that it made the difference between 75 and 70 MPG for that tank, so about 7 or 8% difference on a maximum effort tank.

I think if one were to find a smaller accessory drive pulley for the crank shaft to turn the alternator/power steering/etc slower it would reduce the idle fuel consumption while retaining the benefits of powered accessories? It does not get any lower than with the engine off obviously, but there are likely improvements or comprimises to be made.

908.3 miles (I made it!) and 16.8 gallons = 54.1 mpg.

'97 Passat with 255,555 on the ODO, all stock. Mostly around town, but some at speed going to/from the HO5G GTG.

I finally hit the 800 miles on a tank back in April and have not fallen back below that since. On a trip to the Ho5G GTG in NH I not only broke the 900 mile tank but, also the 1000 miles tank mark getting 1034 miles on a single tank driving up and back WV to NH and back on one tank. 62.7 MPG on a 2001 Jetta with most of the big HP mods on it. So it goes to prove chipping (RC4) turbo (VNT 17) does not hut your mileage it you keep your foot out of it. Now I need a bumper sticker

Birdman - you're one of the few that I've found that has moderate performance modifications and still getting good mileage. My best with the RC6, 17/22 Hybrid, PP502's is ~69 MPG earlier this spring. I've got the right MAF sensor in now and it's dropped my cruising boost pressures a few psi so that should help out a bit more as well. Looking at a upper 50's this tank with minimal regard for fuel economy.

PM me your address and I'll send you a sticker.

Good work!

Well after this last tank I have finally done it. Though it took a lot of patience....$5 fuel will do that for you

Final tally 960 miles 16.9 gallons 56.8MPG

(in actuality it was 905 miles and then I wussed out and stopped to put in 1.5 gallons so that I could ensure that I would make it to my normal filling station...there I put in 15.4 gallons to bring it to the brim)

Previous best was 52MPG on a 8xx mile tank with a 15.8 gallon fillup.

This was with the 01 with sprint 520's.

This tank was my 1st experiment with P&G. There are a lot of up and down hills on my 120 round trip communte...almost all highway...so I tried to use the downhills to the utmost advantage possible. I also was P&Ging with engine off and then bumping it into 5th for between 2/3 and 3/4 of the tank before I realized that it really was probably pretty bad for my turbo's health to be cutting off it's coolant by shutting down. From then on it was P&G while idling. I would love to get a consensus on this turbo health topic re: lack of coolant.

My P speeds would start at the top of the hills...I would P up to say 75 indicated going down the hill and then hit nuetral. G down to 60-58 indicated and then go up the next hill at 62 indicated. (the real speed as we all know is 2-3mph lower)

This tank is already a little messed up because I took a trip yesterday that does not fit my normal pattern...We'll see how it turns out. I'm going to try a full tank of P&G with idle on to see how big a difference it makes from shutting down. I would really rather keep that turbo cool...they're pretty expensive to replace

Good luck to all and let's keep up the good work.

Finally got my 900 mile tank. 921.3 trip miles and I filled up with just short of 16 gallons for approx 57.5mpg. Better planning and a little more discipline will get me to 1000. Still need to calibrate the Scangauge a little more, but she was surprisingly close:

I have had several 900 plus mile tanks in a row. I have been following some of the driving tips given by other drivers. Last trip I drove from Petersburg, Va to Watertown, NY and back down into Pa before having to refuel. I used AC nearly the whole trip, and stayed between 65 and 70 mph.

Last tank
917 miles
16.3 US Gallons
56.257 MPG

2002 Jetta TDi 114,000 miles 5 speed
NO MODS.

Ok folks...I need some advise....The light went on tonight with 918 miles on the tank....do you guys think I should go for it? I may not have the patience to try for 1000 again for quite some time...this has been tough

ofhs93 said:

Ok folks...I need some advise....The light went on tonight with 918 miles on the tank....do you guys think I should go for it? I may not have the patience to try for 1000 again for quite some time...this has been tough

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I can go 82 miles EASY after the light, but fuel lights do not all come on at exactly the same time. When mine comes on, I know I have 9 litres left. Or a little over 2 US gallons.

ofhs93 said:

Ok folks...I need some advise....The light went on tonight with 918 miles on the tank....do you guys think I should go for it? I may not have the patience to try for 1000 again for quite some time...this has been tough

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__. Unless you're *very* sure of the gallons remaining when your light comes on, I'd say no. The point the light comes on is adjustable and -- like most adjustable things -- it can be misadjusted.

york77777 said:

I've gotten 61.2 MPG on a tank with my Sprint P764's and I'm running a 2.0T MAF. After reading your post I'm wondering if I should go back to the stock MAF to get even better mileage? Thoughts?

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Use the MAF that your ECU thinks should be there. I was running a 1.9 ALH MAF on a tune that thinks it's a larger VR6 MAF and when I put the VR6 MAF in is when I noticed a reduction in cruising boost.

Well....I did it!
1012.4 miles
16.563 gallons
61.124 MPG

No offense to Gutwrench for not taking his advise...I didn't get to check here before going to work in the morning for any more opinions, so I never saw his post until after I had "made it to the summit" so to say. I don't think I will ever attempt to do this again with my normal weekly commute though....it's just too painful. I believe 900 mile tanks are regularly doable in my situation, but 1000 will only be saved for long trips in the future
I have the cluster picture saved on my cellphone...now I just need to take the time to figure out how to get it off there so I can post it up Thanks to everyone on here for providing the motivation I needed to REALLY give it a try. I would like my car to be able to wear the 1000/60 sticker with pride....(and tick off all of those smug Prius drivers that go blowing by me on the highway thinking they are saving the world) If there is a donation being taken to cover the cost of the stickers please let me know.

As far as mods and car stats go...
Sprint 520s
Not great tires to be honest (I bought the rims for a good deal and they still had good rubber on them) The fronts are at 44psi, backs at 36 (that is max for the rears..mismatched set for now)
The car actually has a bit of right front fender/bumper damage (obviously not enough to make the 1000/60 goal impossible)
Everything else is basically stock. I have a .681 in the trunk waiting to be installed..perhaps after that goes in then I will more easily be able to do 1000/60. It should put me in the RPM sweet spot at a more bearable cruising speed for me.

ofhs93 said:

No offense to Gutwrench for not taking his advise (snip)

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__. That's OK, my advice is usually worth about what it costs ya!!

__. Congrats about joining the club. All that is good. And, it's not really about whether you get a 1000 mile tank, it's that you're learning enough to get the best econ possible all the time thus reducing the amount of fuel you burn and the money you pay. You also get a benefit that you're learning about your car and you'll spot problems and any need for repair or maintenance earlier. That's a good thing.

Another 900 mile tank

Driver: MikeMars
Miles: 924.5 miles
Gallons: 16.468 (62.34 litres = 13.713 imp gallons)
Model Year: 2000 (early)
Model: Passat 1.9TDi 115hp PD
Tranny: Manual 5-gear
Fuel Type: ULSD

Calculating from the fuel used, it is just over 56 us mpg, which closely matches the trip computers estimate.

Another so-so tank in terms of MPG, but again I got over the 900 mile barrier by risking the reserve. Trip computer claims 67.4 imperial mpg, and the reserve light came on at 845.4 miles. Several long + fast journeys (with passengers) were without any special techniques being used, but during the last half of the tank I started experimenting with engine-off P&G which took the indicated MPG from 61 to 67.

The weather was generally warm and conducive for good mileage, traffic good also, but circumstances meant time was short.

This tank cost £ 81.80, which is about $ 162. 130.9 pence per litre which is roughly $ 9.90 per us gallon?


(Since there isn't a july mileage thread yet I've included info which I wouldn't normally mention in the 60/70 mpg thread)

Hey everyone....just filled up today...went 1075.5kms on 50.5 liters.That works out to 60.05mpg. The best part is that this is 60% highway and 40% city going back and forth to work.I have changed my driving habits a little.I do not drive faster than the posted speed......do not race anyone to a stop sign/traffic light and if I see a slow down ahead I take my foot of the go pedal to avoid stopping if possible.My car has just under 48000kms(30k miles).

MikeMars said:

Another 900 mile tank

Driver: MikeMars
Miles: 924.5 miles
Gallons: 16.468 (62.34 litres = 13.713 imp gallons)
Model Year: 2000 (early)
Model: Passat 1.9TDi 115hp PD
Tranny: Manual 5-gear
Fuel Type: ULSD

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Good work! But other Passat drivers report a higher tank capacity. Why your tanks are about 16 gallons?

From forum postings it sounds almost as if there were two sets of Passats, one with slightly larger tanks and another set with slightly smaller tanks. Perhaps it has changed with the model changes. The only real way to find out is drive it until it runs out of fuel (but this is a real pain because it is hard to restart once the air gets into the system).

woofie2 said:

Tint your windows

, to keep the temperature down in the car with the windows up, and run the vent fan, (or the A/C on low) the car stays cooler and well it looks cool.
I will be shooting for 900 at the end of the month when I leave on vacation or on my return trip from Colorado the beginning of July (got 40mpg in my gas Golf 3 years ago). I have seen 700 regularly in my TDI, last week I hit 680 when the fuel light came on and I was coming up on a station with $1.539 diesel so I had to stop.

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That post was made 6/4/04. Damn.....

no_one_of_consequence said:

Good work! But other Passat drivers report a higher tank capacity. Why your tanks are about 16 gallons?

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B4 vs. B5.
18.5 gallon (70 liter) published capacity vs. 16.4 gallon (62 liter) published capacity.
28+ gallons (100+ liter) reality in the B4 variant vs. Don't know yet for the B5.5 variant...

She, who's taken over my B4V, today said: "There's a 1000 mile club? I'm almost there!"
Sorry, sunshine, Last night you said you were low on fuel so I added the last 10 gallons of bio into your tank. And 1000 miles on a B4V is expected. Better luck next time.

Think I'll Make IT?

Do you guys think I will make 1000 miles on this tank? So far I have 950 miles and on my B4 fuel guage it is reading right above or at the red hash marks.

At what mileage did the reserve light go on? How far have you gone on the reserve before?

I dont have a reserve light on a 97 passat sedan

With a B4V, you typically go 400 miles before the needle starts to move off of full (18 gal indicated) if you fill to the brim w/ ventectomy. I got 1,300 miles on just under 25 gallons. There is the post linked on the welcome page where Chris Bell went 1,400, and this was done fairly casually before the Scan Gauge came on the scene and really expensive diesel fuel brought on the body of hypermiling knowledge presented here in the past couple years.

I'd bet a real feather-foot on a cross country drive could get 1,500 miles easy in a B4V.

I have a sedan

97B4TDi said:

I have a sedan

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Yes I realize that. To answer your question above, you say you're still above the red hash marks. I think it's a gamble as to how far down in the red you can go. Some say they've run out shortly after hitting the red zone. I've personally gone to between the second and last red marks. Not really comfortable being down there!

But you're just looking to go 50 more miles. If these will be highway miles, I think you'll be fine.

I DID IT!

Driver: Jordan
Miles: 1012.3 miles
Gallons: 19.528 (73.92 litres = 16.26 imp gallons)
Model Year: 1997
Model: Passat TDI
Tranny: Manual 5-speed
Fuel Type: ULSD

MPG: 51.84

And a picture of my achieved goal: