GTB Turbo with orig actuator on edc15/msa15?

T3-UN1

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Im wondering if one can use the gtb turbos with their original electric/mechanic actuators (eg 6NW 009 483 / 761963) in combination with msa15 edc15+ ecus.
I guess, the gtb1756 actuator is controlled by PWM. (some of them are CAN).
As you know, one can change frequency and duty cycle in edc/msa.
does anybody know what pwm frequency/voltage the hella actuator from garrett/vag are runnning with?

 
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oldpoopie

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If this could be done it would make things much easier than modding the actuator lever.
 

hatemi

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I have the impression that you cant use the VW servo but you could use one from MB CDI.
 

T3-UN1

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hatemi said:
I have the impression that you cant use the VW servo but you could use one from MB CDI.
it seems you know more about that?
I heard about different versions (can/pwm). what do you think, why is it not working?
 

hatemi

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VW uses can and MB uses PWM. The N75 solenoid uses PWM aswell. You might have to change the frequency of the signal to get it work properly, but that should be doable.
 

TDIfreak

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Yes VAG uses CAN and I can sell box to use between PWM signal and VAG servo.

Otherwise MB or BMW servo is the way to go, they use PWM at different frequencies. The servo itself is too high in resistance compared to N75 solenoid so some custom connections are needed ;) .
 

T3-UN1

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TDIfreak said:
Yes VAG uses CAN and I can sell box to use between PWM signal and VAG servo.

Otherwise MB or BMW servo is the way to go, they use PWM at different frequencies. The servo itself is too high in resistance compared to N75 solenoid so some custom connections are needed ;) .
so you have a Box that converts PWM to CAN? nothing else is needed?
How much is it?
For the MB actuator I need an amplifier to work on edc ecu?
Do you have some links or infos on the web or is it all based on your own studies?
 

TDIfreak

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T3-UN1 said:
so you have a Box that converts PWM to CAN? nothing else is needed?
How much is it?
For the MB actuator I need an amplifier to work on edc ecu?
Do you have some links or infos on the web or is it all based on your own studies?
PM sent.
 

TDIMeister

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This is great! There are huge positive implications about this. Imagine doing away with the N75 completely and having full servo-electronic boost control, even for early engines. Plus with some signal wizardry you can customize the boost and response...

TDIfreak, you need to work on this! :)
 

T3-UN1

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VW Hella box is not working..
Got my GTB1756VK working wit VW/Garrett Actuator Mechanics and MB/Garrett Actuator Electronics. I controlled it with pwm generatpor at 12v amplitude pwm with 140 Hz.
The max. amperage what i measured was 10mA. I dont have a working edc15 over here, so i cant test. I'm also not sure what amperage is max for EDC, but i think we can solve that with an aditional or just changing mosfet in ecu!
 

T3-UN1

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I ve got an edc15vm+ ecu (ALH). Does someone know if pin 62(N75) valve is pwm "-" or "+"? I think its PWM "-", but for box we need pwm "+"....
Does someone know or could maybe measure the amplitude(not the voltage, because it depends on duty cycle) of the signal? I think it should be 12V....
 

T3-UN1

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This is what im gonn try, when the harness will be in the car(engine conversion ist still not done..)
I will report if it works or not...
 

Rub87

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KKK actuators also work with the pwm, as did the one I found on volvo 2056vl, but the vag don't even have the the power electronics inside the controller so it's alot more work if you want to use one like that
 

T3-UN1

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yes i know.. because of that i use the mercedes benz electronics with the vag e-motor and lever...but still not enough "power" from the mosfet inside the ecu... the way i go is more or less plug n play.. just put the extra little mosfet and resistor inside the ecu and i hope everything will be fine...
 

T3-UN1

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These are my actuators. Left side is MB, right side is VW.
At the last picture, the upper one is MB. You can see that the levers are different. so I took the MB electronics with the VW Mechanics to fit a workin actuator on my GTB1756vk on a 1.9 TDI VP 37 AFN 110 HP with ALH Harness and ECU....



Here is a vid of the moving Actuator:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0qEYEmnLvY
 

Rub87

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so you just built a device with locked frequancy and are changing the duty.?

I also did that a long time ago for a bv-50, but the frequency wasn't stable enough.. I should just have triggered the singal on feedback signal of the actuator, (140-150Hz) IIRC and put the pwn signal on that, but my electronic skills are quite limited :/
 

T3-UN1

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so you just built a device with locked frequancy and are changing the duty.?

I also did that a long time ago for a bv-50, but the frequency wasn't stable enough.. I should just have triggered the singal on feedback signal of the actuator, (140-150Hz) IIRC and put the pwn signal on that, but my electronic skills are quite limited :/
I can adjust frequency and duty cycle... but if I put it to 140Hz, frequency is also changing whith different duty cycles... But it doesnt matter for me. I just used the device for testing that vag mechanics work with mb electronics.
By the way, I didnt build this controller... I just bought it for 20€ from www.elv.de . I dont have any electronic skills too ;)
 

dieseleux

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You say the MB controler (left side, the white and blue board with big chip) run with PWM when you connect like your schematic (pin1 +, pin2 GND, pin 4 PWM input)?
I have this model found on GT2056 of Jeep Cherokee!



Dieseleux
 

T3-UN1

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You say the MB controler (left side, the white and blue board with big chip) run with PWM when you connect like your schematic (pin1 +, pin2 GND, pin 4 PWM input)?
I have this model found on GT2056 of Jeep Cherokee!



Dieseleux
YES, you are right.. MB works wit Pin 1,2,4 -> +vcc, gnd, pwm
good luck
 

Rub87

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so you just conected the N75 output to the actuator input? did you use a resistor to replace the N75? otherwise I think the ecu will throw a dtc and shutoff the N75 signal?

Btw, turbo arrived today, looks good, thanks!

Now when I would find I car can easily swap between 1756vk and the 1749vk as HP
 

T3-UN1

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so you just conected the N75 output to the actuator input? did you use a resistor to replace the N75? otherwise I think the ecu will throw a dtc and shutoff the N75 signal?

Btw, turbo arrived today, looks good, thanks!

Now when I would find I car can easily swap between 1756vk and the 1749vk as HP

I didnt use a resistor.
For the moment I have so many DTCs (working on bench) that I dont know which one I should take for real and which one not... Maybe I need to work on Hardwaredriver/DTC code in Soft, but that should not be so difficult. amperage should be lower on electronic actuator. maybe thats all...

Good to hear that everything went good with gtb1749vk... and yes, its interchangable with gtb1756vk exhaust side.....
 
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