B4V VNT17/22 Conversion How To

Whitbread

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Jan 21, 2007
Location
Johannesburg, MI
TDI
Several
I was recently approached by a gentlemen with a squeaky clean passat who wanted to convert to VNT. Well, I started on it later yesterday and after today, here's where I'm at.

This is the biggest obstacle. Trying to a fit a 17/22 just wasn't going to happen with the stock cast alum bracket. Some 1/4" steel was called into duty.
[url=http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=66827&title=bracket-1&cat=500][/URL]

.400" spacer needed to make everything line up all nice.


The engine mount also needed some massaging to clear the actuator under engine movement.












Hmmmm, that's not a K03 :)



 
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Whitbread

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Location
Johannesburg, MI
TDI
Several
Reserved for picture use.



Vacuum ball mounted. Used some 3/4"x1/8" aluminum.


N75 mounted


Everything all tucked away


Don't worry, the one worm clamp is not permanent.


Not a necessity, but why not at this point?




Very minimal trimming. Can't even tell :)



 
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Whitbread

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Jan 21, 2007
Location
Johannesburg, MI
TDI
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Alritey, now for the technical details;

For the computer, that's all in your tuners magic so effort on your part is needed there.

If you can get the N75 out of a 99.5 mk4, it will plug right in. Otherwise just switch the connector for the later style one. Hook up the OUT line to the turbo, VACUUM to your vacuum source, and then ATMO to an atmospheric vent. In this application I'll be using a small fuel filter and a short piece of line instead of running a line all the way to the other side of the car to the airbox.

With the vacuum ball, just make sure the white end of the check valve faces the ball. And make sure you tap vacuum before the check valve for the brake booster.

That's all really. It was actually much easier than I was expecting. I don't know why every mk3 doesn't have at least a vnt15 on it :).
 
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VWannabe

Veteran Member
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Nov 2, 1999
Location
Lawrenceville, GA USA
I would also like to know about the mount. Somewhere I read that a possible OEM solution to the mount was to use the ABA 8-valve rear motor mount bracket. I cannot attest to the feasibility of this but I thought I would mention it.
Also, I have read about several conversions and none of them modified the actual motor mount. Is this due to the size of the VNT 17/22?
Is the exhaust manifold you are using the integrated one or is this a separate manifold and turbo? And what else is needed? Will a stock A4 downpipe work on the A3/B4 chassis or is this custom? Lots of questions I have!
 

Whitbread

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Location
Johannesburg, MI
TDI
Several
Did you make the 1/4" steel engine mount? If so, any plans on making it publicly available and for what cost?
Yes, I made the mount. I could easily make some for sale but in all honesty I'm so busy I couldn't even think about making some till mid-late august at the soonest. However, Shortysclimbin is making them and has a post for up for them in the vendor section. Probably the best bet if you need one asap.


I would also like to know about the mount. Somewhere I read that a possible OEM solution to the mount was to use the ABA 8-valve rear motor mount bracket. I cannot attest to the feasibility of this but I thought I would mention it.
Also, I have read about several conversions and none of them modified the actual motor mount. Is this due to the size of the VNT 17/22?
Is the exhaust manifold you are using the integrated one or is this a separate manifold and turbo? And what else is needed? Will a stock A4 downpipe work on the A3/B4 chassis or is this custom? Lots of questions I have!
I don't know about the ABA mount working or not. I would be doubtful of it working with a 17/22, it's freakin huge and needs a crapload of clearance. Maybe a 15 or straight 17 though.

We're using a 17/22 from IDparts for a mk4 ALH. The OEM mk4 oil return line also works perfectly. Just make sure to order the fitting that screws in the block also. The oil feed will have to be custom SS braided hose though.

As for a dp, it's going to be custom SS since this car already had a custom full SS setup I did a while back. I don't have a OE mk4 dp laying around to test fit. I had 5 or 6 last week but I just took a load to the scrap yard haha.
 

Stealth TDI

Pre-Forum Veteran Member
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Feb 13, 1998
Location
Newport News, VA
TDI
2017 GTI APR Stage 3 (395 hp/376 lb-ft)
Nice project! I'm looking forward to reading details on how to switch from pressure-activated N75 to vacuum; plus other wiring updates. The availability of the modified engine mount makes this swap a tad more attractive. :) Will you be switching to a European ECU? Or can you make this work with the stock ECU and remap?
 

r90sKirk

Veteran Member
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Oct 21, 2003
Location
CedarTuckey, Michigan
TDI
All TDI's - No gassers! Luxo-Tourer = 13 Passat (hands down, the nicest car we've ever owned), Most fun = MK4 Golf
I'm looking forward to reading details on how to switch from pressure-activated N75 to vacuum

Me too, Matt.Kirk
 

Sprocket

Sprockette's hubby
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Location
MI
TDI
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Eco Diesel, 2005 Passat Silverstone Grey, 1996 Passat Storm Grey
Subscribed! Sure is looking good so far ;)
 

G60ING

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 5, 2001
Location
MD
TDI
No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
the aba mount is the same at the tdi's bracket
 

Sprocket

Sprockette's hubby
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Location
MI
TDI
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Eco Diesel, 2005 Passat Silverstone Grey, 1996 Passat Storm Grey
Is that yours Jason?
Yes, it is buddy :) BTW, I was very sad to read about your turbo issue. I hope it gets resolved quickly & hopefully it's just isolated to the turbo :(

Stealth, it will still be the GQ ECU just flashed to the European AFN software for VNT. I'm still unsure at this point what stage of RC I'm getting from Jeff. I'm letting him decide what is best to go along with all of the other supporting hardware changes (PP520's, FMIC, 2.5" SS Turbo back exhaust)

Matt your doing a great job!!! I think I'll wait on the Colt Cam until I'm due for the next timing belt change.
 

dieseleux

Théoricien -TDIClub Contributor
Joined
Nov 14, 2006
Location
Pas assez loin pour vider ma tank!
TDI
Jetta TDI 02
I'm looking forward to reading details on how to switch from pressure-activated N75 to vacuum

Me too, Matt.Kirk

Easy... use N75 of MK4 ALH and same hose rooting of MK4, after, put AFN ECU chip. (for same connector, use N75 of 1999.5, more expensive than 2000-2003 N75!)
GTB2056VL work great on my 028906021JB ECU. (Jetta 98 AHU)



Dieseleux
 
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Whitbread

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Location
Johannesburg, MI
TDI
Several
Some new pics and a little bit of tech info updated :).

Just have a build a dp tomorrow morning and it's test drive time!
 

kooyajerms

grocery getter
Joined
May 5, 2004
Location
Pomona, Southern California
TDI
97 B4V (mine), 11 x5 35d (hers) 04 V10 (that one you want), 2014 Q7 (mom's) 74 Shasta 1400
Yeah we'll see Jason, even if it's just the turbo, it still means I may need to change over to a different vnt 20. You've got my fabricator in person, so you'll have better luck than I ever will. Glad to see you got an fmic too.

More fuel Jason, more fuel. Do it before you get retuned! That thing can take 764's for sure.
 

jollyGreenGiant

Veteran Member
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Feb 3, 2003
Location
MA
TDI
03 Golf TDI GLS ( my 5th TDI ), 03 Eurovan GLS - VR6 :(
It looks like you're using a PD150 intake and all the intake piping is your design. What size is all the intake ductwork going to be?

That would be the biggest drawbacks for myself in doing this conversion, the stock turbo just about pushes the stock ducting to it's limit as it is.

Too bad there wasn't a motormount ( not the bracket ) that didn't require so much "massaging" too, doesn't seem like the best for longevity but time will tell I guess.
 

Whitbread

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Jan 21, 2007
Location
Johannesburg, MI
TDI
Several
The charge piping is 2" aluminum. The turbo inlet pipe is 2.5".

There really isn't that much removed from the motor mount. It just looks like a ton in the pics. Mostly you just have to put a U in the top and bottom metal "hats" and then take a ~1/4" of rubber off the middle part.
 

Whitbread

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Jan 21, 2007
Location
Johannesburg, MI
TDI
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Got the car all together today and WOW. 10psi at 1500rpms in 5th gear at light throttle :cool:. The car flat out flies.

Only strange thing is that the cruise doesn't work now. Must have something to do with the AFN mapping and something else needing a slight change. Too bad Jeff is on vacation this week :(.
 

Sprocket

Sprockette's hubby
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Location
MI
TDI
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Eco Diesel, 2005 Passat Silverstone Grey, 1996 Passat Storm Grey
More fuel Jason, more fuel. Do it before you get retuned! That thing can take 764's for sure.
Well, based on Jeff's suggestions I went with PP520's. I do have some smoke above 1/2 throttle though. I know he did a 2.5 bar map, so maybe going with a 3 bar map will help with the smoke? I have 22psi when it's pegged. I was hoping for more like 26 ish. Not a big deal at this point but I think I will have him re-tune it in a couple of weeks.

As far as the cruise control, Jeff gave me the log in code this morn for VCDS to turn the cruise back on. I wasn't looking forward to having no CC on our road trip starting tomorrow. Everything is working good now :)

I want to thank everybody who helped me on this project (in no particular order) :D

Whitbread (Matt)
IDparts.com (Peter)
mrchill (Chris)
Compu_85 (Jason)
Franko6 (Frank)
Matt-98AHU (Matt)
jsrmonster (Jeff - Rocketchip)
 

Whitbread

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Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Location
Johannesburg, MI
TDI
Several
Sprocket said:
As far as the cruise control, Jeff gave me the log in code this morn for VCDS to turn the cruise back on. I wasn't looking forward to having no CC on our road trip starting tomorrow. Everything is working good now :)
Great to hear :). I knew it had to be something simple and stupid.

Glad you like it!
 

G60ING

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 5, 2001
Location
MD
TDI
No TDIs Currently, I have an R36 Corrado. I've had an ALH Corrado swap, AHU Corrado swap and 2003 TDI Jetta
The ALh Turbo and Stock MNk4 downpipe fit snugly in the Corrado which is essentially the same fitment as the mk3.

Does anybody know if a person were to upgrade to a VNT 1749va turbo with a mk4 N75 would require the afn tune or could they get by with the stock tune until they could take the car to Jeff for a custom tune?

I have access to some B5 TDI turbos from VW for a killer price. I'm trying to get an AFN manifold and then I'll buy the street toys DIY downpipe kit. Just curious if I would be forced to do the ECU at the same time of it I could hold off a month or two. I'm also concerned about not having the CEL working properly after the AFN tune is installed.
 

Whitbread

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Jan 21, 2007
Location
Johannesburg, MI
TDI
Several
The ALh Turbo and Stock MNk4 downpipe fit snugly in the Corrado which is essentially the same fitment as the mk3.
I'll second that. I used the exact same bends to make the dp as I do for mk4's. So I'm sure a stock mk4 dp (or any aftermarket) will fit.
 

blind

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Location
KY
TDI
MK3 Golf
Does a passat not have the vacuum reservoir like mk3's have? I was planning on teeing into that for my mk3 vnt swap, but now you have me wondering if it would supply enough vacuum since it's also used for the hvac vents.
 

paramedick

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor
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Jul 29, 2001
Location
Versailles, Kentucky
TDI
2015 Audi Q5 TDI
Does a passat not have the vacuum reservoir like mk3's have? I was planning on teeing into that for my mk3 vnt swap, but now you have me wondering if it would supply enough vacuum since it's also used for the hvac vents.
Nope, you have to add one for the A3/B4 cars.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Don't know how I missed this thread, but glad I found it. I spoke to Sprocket yesterday and he reports the car is running well. 20-21 PSI is the max right now until Jeff gets more 3-Bar MAPs in that can be attached to the 1Z ECU. I suspect the additional boost will clean up smoke, provide more power, and may even bump fuel economy.

Some of us have speculated that a VNT turbo on a B4 would provide better power down low, more up top, and same if not improved FE. Sounds like that's the case.

Nice work.
 

kooyajerms

grocery getter
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May 5, 2004
Location
Pomona, Southern California
TDI
97 B4V (mine), 11 x5 35d (hers) 04 V10 (that one you want), 2014 Q7 (mom's) 74 Shasta 1400
Bump just because it's a great thread =)

Jason, if you see this, how is it running? 3bar? more fuel? Spinning tires in 3rd?
 

Sprocket

Sprockette's hubby
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Location
MI
TDI
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Eco Diesel, 2005 Passat Silverstone Grey, 1996 Passat Storm Grey
Bump just because it's a great thread =)

Jason, if you see this, how is it running? 3bar? more fuel? Spinning tires in 3rd?
The car runs great, but I'm sure it's going to be slow next to your beast. Yes, I have a loaner ECU with RC6 with a 3 bar MAP from Jeff. I'm still using PP520's but am thinking about something bigger in the future. Next up is to have APR head bolts put in so I don't blow the head gasket. When is your car going to be done?
 

kooyajerms

grocery getter
Joined
May 5, 2004
Location
Pomona, Southern California
TDI
97 B4V (mine), 11 x5 35d (hers) 04 V10 (that one you want), 2014 Q7 (mom's) 74 Shasta 1400
Is the ECU some AFN clone? You should get it dyno'd Jason, that would be great!



Matt's driving it as we speak =)

Bugs - Tuning - Fuel Pump - Small Odds n Ends - My Arrival?
 

Sprocket

Sprockette's hubby
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Location
MI
TDI
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Eco Diesel, 2005 Passat Silverstone Grey, 1996 Passat Storm Grey
Yes, the ECU has the AFN software on it.

This white wagon from CA magically appeared in my driveway last night so I took it for a spin and had to change my pants when I got back home :eek: Jeremy, your car is a frigging missile!!! Now I know how the astronauts feel at launch time...LOL.

It was dark out when Matt came over, so I couldn't see everything all at once, but I had my flashlight and was scoping everything out. He did an awesome job on everything from top to bottom. There's lots of aluminum bling in that engine bay along with a big fat turbo up top. I really like how the dual exhaust looks too...reminds me of the all-road rear end.

Now I'm wishing I had gone with something bigger & better like you & Gus. I've definitely got to put a 11mm pump & some larger nozzles in mine to quicken it up a little. I'm not sure at what point I'll need to beef up the inside (pistons & rods) and I really don't want to get to that point with this car though. I keep saying I've done enough mods to her until I drive something quicker ;)
 
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