gtb2260vk build: stateside, aiming for the masses

TDIinTexas

Vendor
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI, 2010 JSW TDI
Alright guys here we go!

I have spent many months in preparation for this build, and I am very excited to finally be making some progress with a grinder and welder.

I am developing a turbo system for the masses. When I mean system, I am trying to provide a bolt-on big turbo, with all the trimmings for us. For a long time I have been under the impression that we as a niche group are capable of using larger turbos, to take us to a higher standard of performance TDI.

I want to see more large turbo TDIs running around here. I think the biggest hurdle has been sourcing manifolds and other plumbing parts reliably. That is what I hope to accomplish.

I am going to focus on Audi's gtb2260vk. Many guys in Europe are using this turbo with great results.... Its time for some of them here stateside! It does require modification to convert it to vacuum actuation, from the factory it is electronically controlled.

So without delay, lets get started.

Car: 2002 Jetta TDI

Here is what I have come up with in CAD. You can't see the hood, firewall, K-frame, or steering. It is in the drawing, just turned off for the picture. All should fit.



The manifold is 1.5" .065 stainless tube with all equal volume runners. Flanges are .5" stainless. The flange on the block is port matched to the exhaust gasket, and extra material given to accommodate the welds for the pipe. Intake manifold will have the plenum up by the injection pump, I'm trying to get the volume and length of the SDI manifold, still needs minor touches. The turbo drain sits perpendicular to the ground, without clocking the exhaust side at all (both the compressor and exhaust sides of this turbo can be clocked in any position 360 degrees for those who do not know this). The actuator bracket is incorporated into the oil drain flange, making it dependent to the chra and nothing else :cool:. There are 2 actuators in the picture, but it is the one on the left that is correct, the one on the right shows the offset, you'll understand later when it is pictured mounted. Exhaust is 3" with v-band clamps. The flex is shown in the picture.

I have played with the manifold alot, and have ideas for a smaller volume version in the future.

I started work today, going with the intentions of following my drawings as carefully as possible. Here is what I got done:

I want to thank Steve Glover for lending me a bad head to mock-up on. I build a frame that holds it at the 12.5 degrees that my engine sits at in the car.



Here are some goodies:



and I welded up the collector too..



This system is going to consist of: gtb2260vk (new, not re-mann), stainless exhaust and aluminum intake manifold, 3" aluminum turbo inlet pipe, stainless oil supply and drain lines, 3" stainless downpipe, intercooler & piping. This should be everything unique to installing this turbo. We will see what the future holds for supplying tuning. I am working on a website and vendor status.

What do you think?

David
 

scubagli

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May 7, 2009
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leeds ny
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1986 audi 4000Q ALH SWAP in progress...
umm wow...that collector looks clean. can't wait to see more.
 

79TA7.6

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Live: Wilbur/Creston; Work: Moses Lake Washington
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2003 TDI Jetta, 2002 TDI Golf, 2005 TDI Golf
David, where did you get that rendering of the block and head? Did you mock those up from your bad head? What are you using for your cad? I use SolidWorks everyday at work. I love to see others work with 3D renderings.

Keep up the goos work. Looks like you will have a great end product.
 

TDikook

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Biloxi, Ms
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'06 Golf Anthracite Blue
interesting... cant wait to see more...
and I know this is a crappy question. but do you have a ballpark(high side estimate) of what the finished price would be... so I can save up and budget it...
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
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Canada
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TDI
Wow, the primaries look exceptionally long.

Edit: be that as it may, I'm not criticizing. However, may I suggest you consider welding in a divider plate to separate the exhaust pulses between the 1-4 and 2-3 cylinders.
 
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ryanp

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Arosa CR - 550hp - 9.7 @ 150mph 1/4 Mile, Citigo 4x4 CR TDi - 340hp, Caddy 2.0 CR 4x4 TDI - 300+hp, Golf Mk2 Van 1.9 TDI - was 290hp, Mk5 Ibiza 2.0 FR TDi - 270hp, BMW 135d - 360hp, BMW 330d - 335hp, BMW 335d - 380hp + a few more ........
Looks good! subscribed!
 

TDIinTexas

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Jul 25, 2007
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
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2002 Jetta TDI, 2010 JSW TDI
79TA7.6 said:
David, where did you get that rendering of the block and head? Did you mock those up from your bad head? What are you using for your cad? I use SolidWorks everyday at work. I love to see others work with 3D renderings.

Keep up the goos work. Looks like you will have a great end product.
I started from scratch, I rendered the head from measurements taken from the head on the stand. Its Autocad2009, that is what I work with all day at work. I wish they would let me play with Solidworks or Catia.

David
 

TDIinTexas

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Location
Fort Worth, Texas
TDI
2002 Jetta TDI, 2010 JSW TDI
TDIMeister said:
Wow, the primaries look exceptionally long.

Edit: be that as it may, I'm not criticizing. However, may I suggest you consider welding in a divider plate to separate the exhaust pulses between the 1-4 and 2-3 cylinders.
Yes, I battled with the pulses, and could not come up with a clean, cost efficient, equal volume primary setup. Instead I went with what I could get, equal volume. I work with cnc tube benders, and have layed this out to be bent, after the prototyping, this will drop labor time.

I could weld in the divider, which means I need to cut that collector open :rolleyes:, we'll see. Probably.

David
 

TDIinTexas

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Fort Worth, Texas
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2002 Jetta TDI, 2010 JSW TDI
TDikook said:
interesting... cant wait to see more...
and I know this is a crappy question. but do you have a ballpark(high side estimate) of what the finished price would be... so I can save up and budget it...
We will have to see how much labor is invested. It will be in the ballpark of similar kits for gassers.

David
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
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Canada
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TDIinTexas said:
I could weld in the divider, which means I need to cut that collector open :rolleyes:, we'll see. Probably.
No no, don't do that then. Maybe something to consider in another header build.
 

79TA7.6

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2003 TDI Jetta, 2002 TDI Golf, 2005 TDI Golf
TDIinTexas said:
I started from scratch, I rendered the head from measurements taken from the head on the stand. Its Autocad2009, that is what I work with all day at work. I wish they would let me play with Solidworks or Catia.

David
I think that is the first rendering from AutoCAD that I have seen. It looks pretty good. I have not heard very many good things from people who have worked with AutoCAD and other 3D CAD programs. They say AC is harder to work with. But that is a different thread topic. Keep up the good work. Hope everything goes good with this project.
 

Rub87

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Dec 10, 2006
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Belgium
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Ibiza '99 90HP
for the easyness I work with Inventor, and for finite elements NX with Nastran solver.. Catia with Fluent pluging can do nice trings for CFD but I don't have the skill :(

as for the intake manifold, I'd make it so that it also fit a PD head, so it will not go to low in the IP area, this will be better for many people with more recent cars

with the exh manifold like that does it have enough clearance for the driveshaft?
 

Farfromovin

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Apr 9, 2005
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Ventura, CA
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03 Golf 2dr- PD150 6m
Rub87 said:
for the easyness I work with Inventor, and for finite elements NX with Nastran solver.. Catia with Fluent pluging can do nice trings for CFD but I don't have the skill :(

as for the intake manifold, I'd make it so that it also fit a PD head, so it will not go to low in the IP area, this will be better for many people with more recent cars

with the exh manifold like that does it have enough clearance for the driveshaft?
Good idea Ruben. If possible, the design would be best suited for both ALH and BEW customers...
 

TDIinTexas

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Location
Fort Worth, Texas
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2002 Jetta TDI, 2010 JSW TDI
Yes, good point, as I am trying to accommodate both ALH's and PD's with this. I need to measure up a PD head with valve cover on.

Will the SDI manifold fit the PD's, or better yet... Is it made for the PD's? I don't know alot about the SDI.

David
 

Rub87

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Ibiza '99 90HP
the plastic sdi one I don't think it will fit PD, altough there are PD sdi's in caddy IIRC but don't know what intake they use

the actuator like you have it there is very handy to adjust :D
 

TDIinTexas

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2002 Jetta TDI, 2010 JSW TDI
Rub87 said:
the actuator like you have it there is very handy to adjust :D
That is the highest angle that I can set it at. It is tangent to the halfway travel point of the actuator lever that I welded on from my blown VNT15. It keeps it away from the heat of the exhaust manifold also. And like you said it makes it easy to adjust. The stop is easily accessed too.

Now you get why I was asking about long actuator arms in the other thread a couple of months ago. ;)

David
 

micasb

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Jan 3, 2008
Location
Porto, Portugal
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Audi A3 8P 2.0 TDI
Hi there.

Good job there.
How will you convert the electronic unit into to vaccum actuator?
Does it have to stay in the position you showed in ther schematics?

Best regards.
 

TDIinTexas

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2002 Jetta TDI, 2010 JSW TDI
You have to remove the existing actuator lever that moves the vanes on the turbo and replace it with one that is shorter. I used the lever from my VNT15. The actuator cannot travel long enough to use the lever that the turbo came with. You can orient the lever in a wide range of degrees, it all depends on where you want the actuator to be located when installed. I think Rub87 installed his pointed down almost vertical. I wanted mine topside.

David
 

12MPGHWY

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el California
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none
I considered doing one remote mount using a control cable, and mounting the actual actuator on the valve cover or firewall.
 
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Rub87

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Ibiza '99 90HP
TDIinTexas said:
Are there any issues with doing this? That is 1" offset. Aren't there oem actuators with an offset?

David

Seems like it could work, wonder why you need suchs big offset? I think it's only around 8mm with a vnt15 bracket I just drilled 2 hole in the bracket just next the exisiting holes..



this was made for an ARL, but I don't think the guys have installed it yet
 

05_new_jetta

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Aug 28, 2005
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Van Wert, OH
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MKV Jetta TDI
after you get the alh/bew version nailed down, do you think maybe a brm would be in the works?? All of us A5 guys are in need of a good turbo/manifold setup..
 

TDIinTexas

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Fort Worth, Texas
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2002 Jetta TDI, 2010 JSW TDI
Rub87 said:
Seems like it could work, wonder why you need suchs big offset? I think it's only around 8mm with a vnt15 bracket I just drilled 2 hole in the bracket just next the exisiting holes..

this was made for an ARL, but I don't think the guys have installed it yet
I started from scratch on the bracket. It includes the oil drain line fitting, actuator bracket, and stop screw. I can offset that as much as I need, but its the intake manifold runner that gets in the way. Its either offset the actuator, or extend the arm about 3" and put the actuator inside the radius of the intake manifold.

David
 

TDIinTexas

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2002 Jetta TDI, 2010 JSW TDI
05_new_jetta said:
after you get the alh/bew version nailed down, do you think maybe a brm would be in the works?? All of us A5 guys are in need of a good turbo/manifold setup..
I would like to do something like that, but there is alot that must go into this first. I would like to get this fine tuned before moving on to the next project. I think it better to spend the time and develop a project out, and offer a better product, rather than trying to do many different projects at once and quality or innovation suffer.

So to answer your question, yes. But it will be awhile.

David
 

Rub87

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Ibiza '99 90HP

Passenger Performance

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83 caddy, soon to be quattro tdi
I would rework that collector and primaries so that the tube connections are on tangent, at current that will be the mostly likely failure point.
 

TDIinTexas

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2002 Jetta TDI, 2010 JSW TDI
How about this Dave? It utilizes the same bends as the rest of the manifold. This also allows me to work in Daves (TDIMeister) divider. Thanks Daves for the input. :D

 
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SBAtdijetta

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TDIinTexas said:
I started from scratch on the bracket. It includes the oil drain line fitting, actuator bracket, and stop screw. I can offset that as much as I need, but its the intake manifold runner that gets in the way. Its either offset the actuator, or extend the arm about 3" and put the actuator inside the radius of the intake manifold.

David
The way you have it now with the offset seems like it would be kind of hard to adjust the length if you needed to do so, but that could be just me. I think leaving it longer and straight and putting it inside the intake manifold runners would work fine.

Looks like fun though, keep up the good work.
 

O.C.TDI

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Nice work so far.;)

I am working a similar GTB2260VK project. I have chosen to use a euro SDI intake, which provides some interesting design challenges, as it takes up allot more space than a typical 8v manifold. I have been able to clock and locate everything while still using the factory oil return line. I am using 1.25" sch. 40 304l stainless steel, the flanges are .5" thick mild steel.

Here are a few progress pictures. We will have this welded out and the flanges surfaced by the end of the weekend, then off to ceramic coat.

Most of the welds are tacked and first pass only.








Believe it or not there is about 1" of clearance at the firewall.

I will put a build thread together after the car is finished and running again. Until then all my free time is wrapped up with the car.

I do not intend on building manifolds or any other fabrications for others. This is purely a personal project. Sooo don't ask.


O.C.
 
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