Injection pump

ezland00

New member
Joined
Dec 6, 2008
Location
Florida
TDI
Beetle
hey guys trying to fix my cousin's 2002 TDI beetle. We came back from 3 days trip and she found out that her car won't start. I found fuel leaking from the injection pump; i don't know where the leak is.

Do i need to replace the pump or is it fixable? the pump seem to be very pricey

help please.

thanks
 

gmenounos

Vendor
Joined
Jun 26, 2003
Location
Watertown, MA, USA
TDI
'99.5 Golf GLS, '01 Jetta GLX Wagon (TDI conversion)
ezland00 said:
Do i need to replace the pump or is it fixable? the pump seem to be very pricey
It's probably fixable. If it's leaking from the top or middle seal you can order a seal kit (from DieselGeek or elsewhere) and the special triangular socket (DieselGeek, MetalNerd, etc.). Instructions are here
You have to mark the pump carefully if it's the middle seal so that you put it back together in exactly the same position. You probably should have VCDS (or find someone who does) so that you can make sure you end up with the correct injection quantity (which is based on the position of the pieces when you bolt them back together). The middle seal was the first place that my pump was leaking and it wasn't too bad to fix.

If it's leaking from the pump head (the cast iron piece that the injector lines connect to), that's a bigger deal. You can still do it yourself (DieselGeek sells a head seal kit with a special bolt that prevents you from pulling out the head too far) but it's a more awkward job than the other 2 seals and you risk parts falling out of the pump if you don't use the special bolt. You don't need VCDS for adjusting anything after replacing the head seal. You can find instructions here.

I was able to see the fuel leaking from the middle seal of my pump while the engine was running. I wasn't able to see fuel leaking from the head as it seemed to be coming from the bottom of the head. Look carefully and you may be able to tell.

I managed to break the special bolt off while trying to replace the head seal and ended up having to buy a used pump (it was around $300 and had been already resealed). To replace the pump requires having access to most of the timing belt tools (with the exception of the crank lock tool) and VCDS. It's not as much work as changing the timing belt (you don't need to jack up the car nor deal with removing the motor mount) and you don't need to buy most of the timing belt kit (with the possible exception of non-stretch bolts for the injection pump if you have the older stretch bolts). I was able to do it in my garage over a couple of days.

- Greg
 

morenc00

Active member
Joined
Feb 9, 2006
Location
Quebec
TDI
01' red jetta gls
IP check when no in the car

Should I be able to turn the sprocket from an IP if it's removed from the car with no fuel lines connected ? is there another way to check the function of the IP other than installing it on the car or sending it to a service center for a checkup?

thanks
michel
 

gmenounos

Vendor
Joined
Jun 26, 2003
Location
Watertown, MA, USA
TDI
'99.5 Golf GLS, '01 Jetta GLX Wagon (TDI conversion)
morenc00 said:
Should I be able to turn the sprocket from an IP if it's removed from the car with no fuel lines connected?
If you just grab the disc with the 3 sprocket mounting holes, it's very hard to turn by hand as there's not enough leverage. You should be able to put a wrench on the big center nut and turn it CLOCKWISE. DO NOT loosen this nut!

I bought a used pump and it was also very hard to turn by hand but it worked great once installed.

- Greg
 

viersam@gmail.com

Active member
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Location
coupeville WA
TDI
2000 Jetta
i have a timing question. I remember reading somewhere about this but cant find it. I have my timing belt off and I noticed the timing is not exactly on with the lock hole. is it passable to advance timing for better performance of something? i can not figure out why it would be off
 

rdkern

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 21, 2004
Location
Humboldt Co CA
TDI
Passat 1997 silver (sold after 11 years), Jetta 2000 atlantic blue
viersam@gmail.com said:
i have a timing question. I remember reading somewhere about this but cant find it. I have my timing belt off and I noticed the timing is not exactly on with the lock hole. is it passable to advance timing for better performance of something? i can not figure out why it would be off
I'm confused.

With the timing belt off, what are you looking at to determine that the timing is "off"?
 

KLXD

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
viersam@gmail.com said:
i have a timing question. I remember reading somewhere about this but cant find it. I have my timing belt off and I noticed the timing is not exactly on with the lock hole. is it passable to advance timing for better performance of something? i can not figure out why it would be off
On an ALH the pump rests with the slot in the hub not quite aligned with the hole in the pump. This is normal.

As for turning the pump by hand, there are springs that are being compressed when you turn it. Also it is a positive displacement pump and you are compressing whatever is still in the pump against the delivery valves which act like relief valves.
 

rcsavage

Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
98 Jetta
Climbing RPM

Just did a reseal on my injector pump '98 TDI:D, reinstalled and primed started right up but then the rpms started climbing without any input from the throttle. has good vacuum no leaks found, checked entire installation an found no issues. So I figured I would pose the question to the guru's of the TDI world for their 2 cents worth.
Thanks in advance for any insight you can offer on where to start the search for the issue.
 

gmenounos

Vendor
Joined
Jun 26, 2003
Location
Watertown, MA, USA
TDI
'99.5 Golf GLS, '01 Jetta GLX Wagon (TDI conversion)
Just did a reseal on my injector pump '98 TDI:D, reinstalled and primed started right up but then the rpms started climbing without any input from the throttle.
Did you mark the position of the pump pieces before taking them apart? The relative position of the center and bottom sections of the pump body determines the injection quantity. If you reassemble the pump and the center section is too far from its original position, you can end up with a runaway engine. See here for details:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2733762&postcount=2

- Greg
 

rcsavage

Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
98 Jetta
Ok its fixed!

Thanks Greg for the great info as always this site is a wealth of info. Realigned the Quan. adjuster plate and now have a perfect idle.:D

Note to all when resealing your pump if you choose to do it yourself mark both sides of the center section as per the link above provided by Greg. Double check before during and after tightening it is possible to align the front marks and still have the rear skewed and miss aligned causing the RPM to climb uncontrollably mine was a slow climb but it could be far enough out of alignment to cause a fast spkie causing dammage if you can't get it shut down in time.

Now onto the sticky rear brakes....:(
 

claymthomas

New member
Joined
Sep 4, 2010
Location
New Orleans
TDI
2000 VW Bug
Newbie here. 2000 VW Beetle TDI - ALH engine Vin 3vwcf21c5ym500421

There was a leak in my IP. I looked up the solution on this wonderful website and ordered the parts from Jim at Diesel Geek.

I changed the top seal on my IP. That went fine. Then I changed my QA seal. It was off a bit and running rough, but Jim at Diesel Geek got me to tap it back towards the driver side and it started running much better. However without a Vag-com I'm not sure how well it was running. I'm was just trying to listen to see if the motor was running smooth and it was. However, there was still a small leak.

So I changed the head seal with the Viton O-Ring. After slicing one by not looking at the rear side of the groove and it not priming at all...I changed the seal again. Luckily Jim sent two with the kit. When I loosened the bolts holding the head on, I noticed my problem. The seal was busted in two. So the second time I was really careful, cause it does get stuck on that back corner where you can't see. I put it all back together. This time the prime worked...and it started up.

However, now it is idling really rough. I took it around the block and it seems to be running fine. Just the idle is rough.

Any ideas for a newbie without a Vag-com?

Thanks much,

Clay
 

rackaracka

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2001
Location
Monroe, NJ
You need to hammer the QA back toward the passenger side to raise your IQ more. This will eliminate the rough idle / slow down shudder.
 

claymthomas

New member
Joined
Sep 4, 2010
Location
New Orleans
TDI
2000 VW Bug
Rackaracka,

Thanks for the advice. It was a pinch in the head seal and guess it was sucking air. I've now changed the head seal 7 times and it leaked on the last one too. Various reasons. Now can't get it started. It was running fine yesterday...still leaking though. So I changed it again this morning (getting very good at it). Now it won't start and I think it doesn't have all the air out. But not sure. I'm beat trying to figure it out. It doesn't have any pressure coming out of the IP when it turns over now. I would think it would come out of there quicker, but I didn't check it to see before so I don't have any comparisons. It's coming out as the engine turns over, but not like high pressure.

I think it's strange that after 6 or 7 seal changes, primes and starts that this time is different. But who knows. I may have to take the IP out and have it shipped off to Oregon.

Clay
 

bnetwork

New member
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Location
Angola
TDI
Defender 110 300 TDI
When driving my Discovery 110 300TDI (mechanical Bosh VE pump there), engine suddenly stopped.

Examination revealed that:
-- fuel is NOT COMING out when I loos injector's pipes and crank engine;
-- fuel filters/hoses are clean and fuel lift up filter is OK;
-- cut off solenoid seem to be OK ( it is clicking when I connect/disconnect power wire);
-- timing is OK and pump's rotor is spinning when crank engine;
-- fuel pump is full of fuel.When I remove drain plugs ( there are 2 one on this pump) and crank fuel is coming up OK;
-- there are no signs of leaking fuel from the pump;
-- I can't feel any pressure on injector pipes when I put my finger there.

I live in Angola so no way to find any qualified diesel mechanic here :-(

Please help
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
Check that any pumps that supply fuel to the injection pump have power and do run. There may be none (as on an ALH or there may be two as on our VW common rail engines.

Check that there are no cracks or breaks in the lines and filters that supply the injection pump, if it is the kind with no supply pumps. If there is a tiny break in the line, it will suck air rather than fuel.

Check the pickup screen in the tank is clear.

You can supply the injection pump with clean filtered fuel from a gravity feed bottle and see if it will then run. That will help you eliminate fuel supply line issues. This is only if the pump has no electric supply pumps.
 
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bnetwork

New member
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Location
Angola
TDI
Defender 110 300 TDI
Thank you, DanG144
Landrover 300TDI has pre-filter, fuel filter and "lift-up" mechanical pump driven by engine. This pump is working well (when cranking, draw considerable amount of fuel to main fuel filter on every rotation).
Will do a gravity feed method tomorrow morning.
By the way, what is a "pickup screen in the tank" thing?
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
I am not sure if yours has one, but most cars do. It is a screen or fiber bag over the pickup tube. It provides a coarse filtration prior to the fuel filter and pumps.

They can plug up with rust flakes, or a felt like growth in the diesel fuel.

On our VW's they have other features, too, such as providing a surge volume for operatiing at low fuel levels on hills. Ours are pretty fancy, and go in and out from the top very easily - so no need to drop the tank to clean the tank or the fuel pickup.

Many other vehicles require dropping the tank. I have no idea what yours has.

But I happen to know an expatriate Englishman that brought that engine here to the US from England and put it in a Landrover. The engine was not available here in the states.

I will make him aware of this post, and he can perhaps help you out. He can fix anything he can get his hands on. Not sure about through the internet.
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
Does your VE pump have a fuel cutout solenoid on it?

If so ensure it has 12 v feed to it. If that does not work, it probably can have the innards removed. That will let it run, but may present a problem for shutting it down.
 

piper109

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2003
Location
Ashe Co NC
I am familiar with the fuel system on the 300tdi. There is a "sedimenter" on the fuel line between the tank and the lift pump. It has a glass cover and if it is full of sediment it will strangle the fuel supply. There is not usually a strainer in the fuel tank pick-up (attached to the tank gauge sender unit)
The lift pump is a mechanical diaphragm pump that looks like a gasoline or petrol pump from years ago. It has a lever on it which permits you to fill a new fuel filter by hand pumping. It puts out about 5 psi (about 0.3 bar). Sometimes they go bad but the IP should still pull the fuel from the tank if there is no air leak.
After the lift pump there is a fuel filter on the firewall and from there the fuel goes to the IP. The IP has a fuel solenoid on it just like the IP's found on VW diesel engines.
From what you are describing, you have tried all the normal tests. The pump is full, the solenoid is clicking, the pump is rotating and you have checked the pump timing.
I like to put a transparent pipe between the filter and the IP so you can immediately see if there is a problem (bubbles etc). If you are turning the engine over with the starter and your foot fully on the pedal, you should eventually get fuel at the injectors when the fittings are loosened.

Its unlikely that the fuel solenoid has gone bad but it does happen. This will certainly produce the symptoms you describe and occur suddenly. I had a wire come off mine once. The engine stopped at 100 kph so I had to coast to the side. Of course it was dark too. It would be simple to replace with a new or borrowed solenoid and eliminate that possibility. It may even be your problem!.

If that is not the cause it would seem that the pump has died and is producing no output pressure even though it is full of fuel. Hopefully that is not the cause as it means big money.
You can download free a manual called "Rave" which is hundreds of pages long covering the 110 Defender and other Land Rovers. If you do not already have it let me know and I will find the website.

Steve
 

goldandblack

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2001
Location
Boilerville USA
TDI
TDI 97 Passat
TDI Injection Pump

I have a TDI injection pump problem. I have a 1997 TDI Passat with 186,000+ miles. Problem started a year ago when it began to lose power. Took to in (not to VW) and they cleaned out the turbo and it ran like normal for about 6 months and it began to lose power. Just took it in (not to VW) and they cleaned the turbo out and replaced a couple hoses and when I picked up the car I was told the injection pump was leaking, they were correct. I was able to drive it home with it leaking badly. It now sits till I can replace the injection pump. Should I buy a kit for the injection pump or a new injection pump ? This is the situation I am in and wondering what is the best way to go. If I buy a kit I will have someone do the work. VW wants $1500 for a new injection pump. I live in southern Indiana, does anyone know in this area that does this kind of work (besides VW) in installing a kit or injection pump ? :)
 

BobnOH

not-a-mechanic
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
central Ohio
TDI
New Beetle 2003 manual
DFIS is the best pump rebuilder in North America, if you can tolerate the shipping time. Some people have reported success with seal replacements on leaky pumps, there should be parts available. If you go that route, you need to be meticulous
 

far_cry

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Location
Israel
TDI
octavia 1.9 TDI alh
The pump can be described as having 2 separate pumps. The first is often described as a "Low Stage Vane type pump" This provides "Head Pressure" to make the fuel push its way into the plunger chamber fast enough not to allow cavitation of the plunger. The pressure of the pump is around around 100 psi. When the plunger compresses the fuel the pressures can reach as high as 19,000 psi at the fuel nozzle.
can anybody tell me what the mean of this, and what will happen when you have bad Low Stage Vane type pump ??
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
If the low pressure vane pump is not producing pressure, then the high pressure pump pistons may not fill completely. This would produce unreliable volumes of fuel to the injectors, varying unpredictably.

Have you checked that your pressure regulator is still intact? The low pressure pump is fairly robust and reliable.
 

Dieselson

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Location
Central Virginia
TDI
86 Jetta
If your turbo needs to be cleaned it sounds like the oil/separator valve is not functioning properly and this vapor is gumming up the turbo. I'm not sure what your injection pump has but if you have some mechanical ability's I'd get the seal kit and maybe the shaft bushing/ bearing and a timing kit since your worst case scenario is a new pump with a shop mechanic. You might find some good deals here. http://www.dieselvw.com/ Keep us informed.
 

TornadoRed

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Location
West Des Moines (formerly St Paul)
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI wagon, silver; 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, indigo blue; 2003 Golf GL 5-spd, red (PARTED); 2003 Golf GLS 5-spd, indigo blue (SOLD); 2003 Jetta TDI wagon, Candy White (SOLD)
That looks like a prothe site to me! i.e. cheap chinese knock-off parts! Just remember you get what you pay for! And, there is NO free lunch!

Personally, I WILL NEVER BUY ANYTHING from this site or any like it.
I think you're right. There have been many horror stories -- customers will receive the wrong products, or inferior products, or both. And if they have to return an incorrect part, it can take many months to get a refund.

It is simply too risky to do any business at all with this firm, no matter which name it happens to be doing business as.
 

Dieselson

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 15, 2008
Location
Central Virginia
TDI
86 Jetta
Wow! The oil cooler I bought appears like a quality item and I did find a head bolt stamp with "Made in Germany" on it. The belts looked questionable and I did not use the timing belt strictly because it was made in China. The hoses appeared first quality; the timing kit appeared acceptable quality for the price.

Actually, you do need to be carefully on mail order and INTERNET sales; however, I have paid full price for other consumable items only to find out it was made in China. I will continue to deal with him if the price is right and the quality is acceptable.
 
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