How to Time an ALH injection pump. Not adjust.

KZbAsser

Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2018
Location
Indiana
TDI
02 Golf TDI
Hello.

I’m new to the forum. I got a 02 Golf GLS that had just under 138000 on it and is now about to hit 310000. I’ve owed this car for about 12yrs with only oil, filters and chassis maintenance for the most part. I am currently in the process of doing the timing belt. The first one was done around 116000(roughly 194000 ago). This is my first TB on a diesel.

I’m looking for info on how to make sure the IP is in time with the crank and cam. I lined up with the timing marks on crank and flywheel and IP lock pin would not go. I cracked the tensioner loose and took cam gear off and turned pump CW til pin slid in. But now it’s time to put it back together and I’m quadruple questioning if the pump is in time. I read in the how to’s that pump can be about 30 degrees off if pin locks in to the right of hole. With a mirror it doesn’t look like a hole that pin is seating in.

Questions:
Can I rotate pump either direction to align?
If not, what is the correct rotation? And do I turn it one revolution or ?

I’ve tried different searches worded many ways and all I keep coming up with is how to adjust pump timing after job is complete. I do have VCDS.

For example, You pull car in to the garage and tear into it without lining up anything. You crack tensioner loose and remove belt. Oops. Crank and cam would be easy. How would you go about timing the injection pump?

Any info will be greatly appreciated and thank you in advance.

Sam E.
 

WildChild80

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2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds

KLXD

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
I have no issue with turning the pump CCW but some folks do. I've had it completely apart and see nothing that can be harmed.

But if you feel better turning it the normal direction, do so. Normal direction is CW when facing it. If you miss the hole turn it once more. It turns once per two crank rotations same as the cam.

If it makes you feel better, take off the pump sprocket so you can see the slot in the hub line up with the hole on the pump. I'm sure you've read not to loosen the nut on the pump shaft.

The fact that the pump pin will not go in with the crank at TDC is not surprising on the ALH. Once the belt is installed and the timing set by loosening the three pump sprocket bolts the initial static relationship between the three is lost.

Actually in your scenario of taking off the belt early, the pump is a piece of cake. Trying to get the crank to TDC on #1 with the cam not turning can be a problem depending on where the cam was when you removed the belt. One would want to turn the crank very carefully in case of valve contact.
 
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WildChild80

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2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
I would just pull the cam in that situation, it's cheap insurance and yes I re-use stretch bolts...shame on me. I don't re-use the studs on the timing set though

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STDOUBT

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Jul 30, 2007
Location
Portland, effing Oregon
TDI
dos jettas
There are much better pictures in the 120-page PDF by DBW et al.:
http://pics3.tdiclub.com/pdf/a4timingbelt.pdf
Pages 91, 92 and 93 specifically.
ALSO, beware the "phantom hole" that is nearby the actual pin lock.
It has caught a few sailors in it's time...
KZb, even if you're an experienced mechanic, it's worth your time to go line-by-line if it's your 1st time on an ALH.
They are a bit fussy when it comes to TBs.
 

WildChild80

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TDI
2001 Jetta TDI 2000 Jetta TDI 2000 New Beetle TDI ALL 5 speeds
Complete truths...it'll be a very painful experience if you don't follow it, and the potential for serious engine damage is very high...and you might loose tools when you throw them out of frustration.

It makes the timing belt of gas cars seem much easier.

Investing in good tools makes it even more pleasurable.

Diesel geek is a great source for the special tools

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WildChild80

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Yeah there's one right way and about 20 wrong ways..... :)
I've probably done 10 of those 20...very frustrating to have to detension the timing belt or knock the cam sprocket off 2 or 3 times...even after a bunch of them I still sit in front of the car and walk through the steps before I start and look up stuff that I can't remember...might even watch a video as a refresher...you can never be too prepared

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KZbAsser

Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2018
Location
Indiana
TDI
02 Golf TDI
Sweet. Thanks guys for the info. I’ll start putting this thing back together tomorrow after work. I’ll be sure to double check the timing marks at the flywheel and cam lobes up on #1. I didn’t want to take a chance at messing up the pump in some way.

I didn’t think about the valve and pistons interference in my example. Was just hoping to get my point across first try. I’ve noticed the older I get the less patients I have for working on cars. Especially when you need it and it’s not moving. Lol.

I’ll let you know how it goes. Thanks again.
 

Genesis

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Location
Sevier County TN
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon
Quick reference on setting static timing and tensioning the belt:

Set crank to TDC and lock it (jam screwdriver in bellhousing or use lock tool if you have the damper off.)

Check that the lobes are up AND LOCK THE CAM with the cam lockplate. No, you CANNOT do this visually.

ATTEMPT to pin the IP. If it will not go break free the cam sprocket and three IP bolts (or remove the latter), remove belt if necessary, align the IP and pin it. You can remove the IP sprocket if the belt is off and rotate the center hub (clockwise preferred) to insert the pin if you have a pin that is short enough to allow clearance for the sprocket to be reinstalled with it in the hole. DO NOT change the cam/crank position to achieve IP lock. The correct hole is EXACTLY aligned with the rectangular boss on top of the IP; if the pin is not aligned with that boss YOU ARE IN THE SUCKER HOLE AND THE ENGINE WILL NOT START.

To tension/set you MUST do it the following way. It is the ONLY correct way.

1. Belt is ON, cam sprocket is ON the nose of the cam but NOT tightened, cam lock plate IN, crank position locked, tensioner on the stud but NOT tensioned, IP sprocket on but three bolts LOOSE, IP PINNED. Hint: Getting the cam sprocket on the nose with the belt on it is not easy. If you temporarily remove the TOP roller it is a LOT easier. Do so, put the sprocket on, then replace the top roller. You're welcome.

(If you DID NOT start with the above then you need to REMOVE the cam in order to safely rotate the crank or be EXTRAORDINARILY careful with hand-barring it (remove the glow plugs so there is no compression resistance) because it is not at all hard to damage the valves if you're not in time.)

2. With the CAM SPROCKET loose and the three IP bolts loose (but in place) -- that is, THE ONLY LOCKED POSITION ON THE BELT IS THE CRANK PULLEY, set the tensioner and torque the nut. The tensioner center section is rotated CLOCKWISE to tension, NEVER CCW, and you must check to make sure the tang on the back is in the slot on the cover and into the receiving slot on the block and stays there when tensioning; if it is not in the slot you WILL damage the tensioner and it WILL fail. If you can't get a torque wrench in there (I usually can but it's a VERY tight fit) "decently tight with an open-end wrench and your hand" is the best you can do.

3. Tighten the cam sprocket to spec COUNTER-HOLDING THE SPROCKET. You must NOT apply torque to the cam lock plate (you WILL break the tail of the cam if you do.) You can remove the cam lock plate once this is complete since it CANNOT move without the crank doing so at this point.

4. Tighten the three IP bolts to spec.

5. Now remove the cam lock if you didn't before, the IP pin and the crank lock. CAREFULLY rotate the engine by the crank bolt, clockwise, TWO FULL ROTATIONS. You should feel nothing more than normal compression stroke resistance. If you feel ANY mechanical resistance STOP; something is seriously wrong. NOTE: DO NOT ROTATE THE ENGINE VIA THE CAM SPROCKET OR IP BOLT AND DO NOT ROTATE IT BACKWARDS (CCW) AS EITHER WILL PLACE STRESS ON THE TENSIONER IT IS NOT DESIGNED FOR.

6. Return the crank to TDC, rotating CLOCKWISE ONLY, so the mark EXACTLY aligns. The cam lock plate and IP pin MUST GO BACK IN. It's ok if the IP pin is tight but it has to go. Check the tensioner to make sure the tang is centered in the slot. If the locks do not go back in or the tensioner is not still correctly set you screwed up, go back to the start and do it over.

IF the pin and cam lock DO go back in you now have (1) the tensioner set correctly, (2) the crank, cam and IP are all in the correct static timing relationship and (3) there is NO sideloading on the belt nubs or on any of the sprockets in the timing system. The engine should start and, if you're REALLY accurate about this, the timing will be almost-exactly in the middle of the graph when checked with VCDS.

This is the correct way to do it; if you have more than one component locked when setting tension you're doing it wrong and begging for an early and potentially-catastrophic failure.

BTW at this point in time there shouldn't BE any one-time-use IP sprocket bolts still out there since they all should have been replaced long ago with the new ones during a timing belt change, which are NOT one-time-use.
 
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KLXD

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
Thar looks pretty thorough but you know someone's going to add something to it so it may as well be me.

I'd add:

2a - Verify crank position in case your locking mechanism wasn't quite secure and return the crank to TDC if it moved.
 

gforce1108

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Aug 2, 2006
Location
Newburgh, NY
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04 Jetta GLS BEW, 14 Audi A7 V6 TDI, 13 Porsche Cayenne V6 TDI
My .02 - if you have to move anything more than just a little bit - step back and reevaluate! If the car was running and driving, you shouldn't have to move the IP or cam much if the crank is really at TDC.
 

KZbAsser

Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2018
Location
Indiana
TDI
02 Golf TDI
Hey guys
Been working a lot of hours and haven’t had time til yesterday.
I got everything all lined up like it should be and locked in, or so I thought. Stuck screwdriver in flywheel, but not as securely as I thought. After a several attempts at getting IP pulley centered in slots, I got the belt on. But the crank moved and not sure which way and how much. With mirror, I can not see mark in either direction of point. So I would say quite a bit.

I don’t really want to pull the cam as WildChild suggested, but it looks like that’s what it’s going to come down to. Can I put it back together without replacing anything? It looks to be studs for the cam caps. Eventually I’d like to pull engine out and fleshing the whole thing up and do a 4x4 conversion of some flavor. But for now I need to get it running and/or find something else to drive. But I’m really trying to avoid a car payment of any amount.

Thanks again.
 

KLXD

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
Just gently turn it back and forth till you find the mark. Shouldn't be too far off.

The cam isn't turning since you haven't torqued the bolt, right?

If you have torqued it you need to break the sprocket loose from the cam again anyway so do it before moving the crank.

You did have the cam sprocket loose, didn't you? Take it completely off if you're having trouble installing the belt.

Also, you can snug one of the pump sprocket bolts to keep it centered while you install the belt. Just remember to loosen it again before adjusting the tension.
 
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Genesis

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Location
Sevier County TN
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon
If you're having trouble installing the belt remove the TOP small roller. The belt will go on MUCH easier. Then replace it before continuing.
 

AndyBees

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2003
Location
Southeast Kentucky
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Hello.

I’m new to the forum. I got a 02 Golf GLS that had just under 138000 on it and is now about to hit 310000. I’ve owed this car for about 12yrs with only oil, filters and chassis maintenance for the most part. I am currently in the process of doing the timing belt. The first one was done around 116000(roughly 194000 ago). This is my first TB on a diesel.

Sam E.
Wow! That has to be a record. I've found one with 149k on the OE TB and well documented. I also found one at 152k well documented and the TB had stripped teeth off.:eek: I've seen several beyond 120k miles well documented.

Okay, no need to remove the Cam.

As suggested, gently move the flywheel back and forth with a screw driver at the bell housing until you find the TDC mark. It will not be far away, either direction. Also, as suggested, remove that small roller between the IP and cam sprockets when installing the TB..... makes the process much easier.

In order for the engine to start, with the cam and flywheel at TDC, set the IP sprocket so that the three bolts are as close to the center of the slots as possible. Also, you can see where those bolts have been by the wear pattern.... that'll give you some guidance.

Hope all goes well.
 

KZbAsser

Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2018
Location
Indiana
TDI
02 Golf TDI
Another 12hr work day, but I did get out a mess with belt a bit.
I got the flywheel lined back up and tried belt a few more times. Apparently I’m not getting screwdriver wedged in good enough. I’ve taken up the slack, took top roller out, tensioner’s loose, a little bit of wrestling, a hand full of choice works, the pulley goes on and the crank moves.

Using the middle of the three dots on the crank pulley, I made a mark on block. It’s only moving about half the pitch between 2 teeth CCW. I’ll try lightly tapping screwdriver in tomorrow and see how that goes. I had it pointing forward when I wedged it in if that would matter or not.

AndyBees. That is quite a lot. Been going to do this for the last three years and just kept putting if off. I wandered at times if it would let go before I got around to replacing it. And it’s surprisingly still in good shape. All teeth are present, no visible cracks. It’s not frayed out. The outside looks like it’s got some light checking or cupping. Whoever did it the first time must have done it right. Had a OEM metal impeller pump that I took out of it. I’ll try and upload a pic of it if you’d like. Once I figure that out.

Hopefully I’ll get out of work at my normally scheduled time and be able to spend a few hours with it.

Thanks Again.
 

Vince Waldon

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Location
Edmonton AB Canada
TDI
2001 ALH Jetta, 2003 ALH Wagon, 2005 BEW Wagon
Just to confirm: the cam sprocket is loose and free to turn, independent of the cam, while you're doing this?

The slack has to go somewhere... and if the cam sprocket isn't loose it will move the crank/flywheel instead. :)
 

KLXD

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
I don't get the problem. Once the belt is on and tensioned just move the crank back to position and tighten the cam and pump bolts.

BUT.

You didn't answer my question which Vince repeated above. The second thing in the first step Genesis posted.
 

KZbAsser

Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2018
Location
Indiana
TDI
02 Golf TDI
Alright guys,

I had a post I was working on and when I went to post it I got an bulletin message stating my submission could not be processed because you have logged in since the previous page was loaded. I hit preview, to see if my quote worked, and it prompted me to login, which I did even though I already was. When I hit submit reply is when I got the message.

Anyway. For the short version.

I got the belt on. Locked everything down. Pulled cam and IP locks. Rotated it through 3 cycles (6 turns) and all marks and locks were as they should be.

Will try again with a better up date tomorrow.

Thanks again.
 
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