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Bad_Vision

Active member
Joined
Aug 27, 2017
Location
Grand rapids Michigan area
TDI
1985 Toyota pickup TDI swapped.
Ok guys I have completed my TDI swap.
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?ur...&share_tid=481120&share_fid=6491&share_type=t


1987 Toyota Pickup completed swap.

Now I want to plan for upgrades.
I need more low end power faster boost and good toruqe.

Now whenever I ask someone what should I do they start throwing out numbers like 512 and 17/22 I'm confused because it's my first TDI and first Diesel and first turbo.

If someone can provide a link to a package or a link to good parts that will go good with a new tune from Malone please chime in!

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greengeeker

Vendor
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Cambridge, MN
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
If you are running the stock vnt15 you should have really good off-idle boost and torque. Have you done a log to make sure everything is operating as it should? How much vacuum are you sending to the turbo actuator at idle? If all you are after is early torque then I would suggest more fuel and keep the small turbo.
 

Jetta_Pilot

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 14, 2005
Location
West Hill, Ont.
TDI
2015 Passat Highline TDI Candy White (SEL Premium) long gone 2002 Jetta TDI
If you are running the stock vnt15 you should have really good off-idle boost and torque. Have you done a log to make sure everything is operating as it should? How much vacuum are you sending to the turbo actuator at idle? If all you are after is early torque then I would suggest more fuel and keep the small turbo.
Unless I'm missing it somewhere there is no mention of what or which TDI engine you put in.

If it is from a 1999 to 2004 it is an ALH engine and there should still be injector nozzles available from some of the club vendors. Just put bigger nozzles in, but that also involves getting the Malone re-tuned. If it's an ALH you probably have .205 stock nozzles and I think that is what the 512 means that you mentioned. 512 does not mean the nozzles are 5 times larger, just someones name for larger nozzles. I believe the 17/22 means going to a larger turbo from a 15 stock. A 17 or a 22.

The recommendation used to be to change nozzles first.

I also think if it is a 2005 and up the nozzles are much more difficult to change. But I've been wrong before this year.
 

Bad_Vision

Active member
Joined
Aug 27, 2017
Location
Grand rapids Michigan area
TDI
1985 Toyota pickup TDI swapped.
Sorry forgot to put that in.
ALH with stage 1.5 tube from malone. Everything else is stock.
23lbs of boost and yes getting overboost but only in 5th gear doing 55mph. It's built to be a trail truck so it never overboost on the trails
I set the vacuum for the turbo to actuate 5hg start and 18hg full engaged.

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Nevada_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Location
Reno, sort of...
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
23 pounds of sustained boost will grenade your stock turbo, There is something going wrong with a 1.5 Stage tune making that kind of boost. I would run logs and see what is really happening before you swap any parts. I am sure Owain would be glad to look at your logs and see what is causing that much boost to be happening.
 

Bad_Vision

Active member
Joined
Aug 27, 2017
Location
Grand rapids Michigan area
TDI
1985 Toyota pickup TDI swapped.
Already did logs when I sent them to Malone all they could tell me is it wasnt supposed to do that and to set my vacuum. The vacuum is correct and the vnt moves freely. I didn't want to put a whole bunch of time and effort into that smaller turbo if I was going to upgrade anyway.

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Nevada_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Location
Reno, sort of...
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
The guys at Malone are pretty sharp when it comes to this kind of thing, yet their response is really lacking, could I look at your logs? Do you have 3rd gear pull logs and highway logs as well? I am really interested in what your N75 valve is doing at WOT and at steady-state highway speed.
 

FraggyTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2011
Location
Paynesville, MN
TDI
04 Jetta
https://log.malonetuning.com/chart/...Ow5rCm8OjZlLDlsKZwq1qw7sJw6EHd8Ojw4LClsKNAAAA

N75 is maxed out and it's still off the map, only got the one log. Asked him to try adjusting the actuator and explained the behavior and correlation of each column, didn't get back to me. Only so much I can do.
Sorry slightly off topic but your log viewer is AWESOME!!! Just another reason why I use Malone. Reminds me a lot of the software I use at work AVL Concerto.
 

Bad_Vision

Active member
Joined
Aug 27, 2017
Location
Grand rapids Michigan area
TDI
1985 Toyota pickup TDI swapped.
https://log.malonetuning.com/chart/...Ow5rCm8OjZlLDlsKZwq1qw7sJw6EHd8Ojw4LClsKNAAAA

N75 is maxed out and it's still off the map, only got the one log. Asked him to try adjusting the actuator and explained the behavior and correlation of each column, didn't get back to me. Only so much I can do.
When you told me to adjust the actuator I replied and told you multiple time that it was set to OEM standard starting at 5hg and full open at 18hg. It's set properly, you then suggested the vains in the turbo where bad or gummed up. So instead of messing with turbo I'm thinking replace it with a better upgrade.
The overboost issue is not a problem if I'm going for more power anyway with a different Turbo

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greengeeker

Vendor
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Cambridge, MN
TDI
2002 Jetta GLS
I agree with Owain on the condition of the turbo...you're not tracking with requested at all. Unless the vane control ring is significantly worn, your problem lies with the control system and will persist even after you swap turbos.

Considering your application I wouldn't go with a 17/22 or even a GTB. I would go with one of the newer gtc or gtd smaller turbos which provide awesome off-idle boost capabilities but are capable of very decent power. It likely will require a fair amount of fabrication but if you're this far I think you would be well within your capability.
 

Owain@malonetuning

Associate Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jul 1, 2016
Location
Vancouver
TDI
PD jetta wagon
Thanks Fraggy :) Sean (one of the web developers) and Mark put a lot of work into it. Many more things to come, that is the start of a complete platform. Site might not have changed much over the last five years but there are some massive back end changes going on.

It's fairly common that the OEM setting will need adjustment. In this case, it seems to be WAY off. I'll see a wave of over to underboost back to overboost through 2000-3500 or so with the N75 over-correcting on probably around 10% of tuned cars with new turbos. Slight adjustment of the actuator fixes it.

The VNT15 is a fantastic turbo and they're pretty well bulletproof, plus you can pick them up at junk yards for cheap. Running one on a fairly smokey tune should give you plenty of bottom end torque. Something like a 1756 is going to sacrifice 200-300RPM of low end spool, but is a totally different animal above 2500. For off road if you're crawling around at ~1100 and jabbing the throttle here and there in second at low speeds, the responsiveness of the stock unit would at least be worth trying out. Considering you'll be looking at nozzles anyway, it's less work and cheaper than swapping turbos.
 

Nevada_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Location
Reno, sort of...
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
Bad Vision, there are times when the turbo factory settings for some reason just aren't getting the job done; my turbo doesn't operate properly if I use the "factory settings." On the ALH motors the N75 valve works backwards to what we would think is normal... When the N75 is at, say 25%, that is the N75 applying full vacuum to spool thew turbo, when the N75 valve is at, say 90%, it is trying to bleed off the vacuum to reduce boost. So regardless of what the factory settings are for "start and stop" on the actuator vacuum wise, I will bet a box of doughnuts that if you make the actuator arm longer the spikes will come under control so you can get a set of meaningful logs. I would imagine Owain has said something very similar to this--minus the doughnuts of course--give this suggestion a try, will you?
 

Bad_Vision

Active member
Joined
Aug 27, 2017
Location
Grand rapids Michigan area
TDI
1985 Toyota pickup TDI swapped.
I will play with it but I for sure want injectors because I have heard that when you do that it creates a totally different machine.
So let's get a tune and injectors.
Keeping the stock vnt 15
What injectors and nozzles would you recommend then? And is it worth monkeying with the adjustment before the nozzles and injectors?

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Owain@malonetuning

Associate Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jul 1, 2016
Location
Vancouver
TDI
PD jetta wagon
Definitely worth adjusting. DLC1019s would be optimal, they'll flow enough for a medium sized turbo with an 11mm pump if you do decide to upgrade but aren't overly aggressive for the stock unit. Can dial back bigger units like PP764s or R520s, but odds are you won't need them.
 

h4vok

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2017
Location
Denver (ex MN)
TDI
2003 Jetta TDi 5sp 171k
I will play with it but I for sure want injectors because I have heard that when you do that it creates a totally different machine.
So let's get a tune and injectors.
Keeping the stock vnt 15
What injectors and nozzles would you recommend then? And is it worth monkeying with the adjustment before the nozzles and injectors?

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DLC520 or DLC1019 are then best option for most setups if you ask me.
 

Bad_Vision

Active member
Joined
Aug 27, 2017
Location
Grand rapids Michigan area
TDI
1985 Toyota pickup TDI swapped.
Definitely worth adjusting. DLC1019s would be optimal, they'll flow enough for a medium sized turbo with an 11mm pump if you do decide to upgrade but aren't overly aggressive for the stock unit. Can dial back bigger units like PP764s or R520s, but odds are you won't need them.
I assume I'll have to send my ecu back to you then?

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Bad_Vision

Active member
Joined
Aug 27, 2017
Location
Grand rapids Michigan area
TDI
1985 Toyota pickup TDI swapped.
Many people including my self have used DBW LLC google it. He is on here from time to time.
See that's the stuff I was complaining about In the first post.
DBW LLC you guys have nomenclature for everything and it's like reading Latin. Lol

Thanks guys I'll be buying them soon!

Is it safe to do this upgrade on a motor with 250k or should I rebuild the engine then upgrade?
If I run it what's the first thing that's going to give out rod or rings?
Just had a timing belt service done so should be good for that.

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Nevada_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Location
Reno, sort of...
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
Owain, thank you for coming back to the discussion, I knew something must have been misunderstood. BV, I am with Owain on the DLC1019 nozzles: they are very reliable and very well engineered. If at some time in the future you want to get a bigger turbo and crank up the HP there is plenty of room available in those nozzles to do just that. With that said, NO! don't buy a bigger turbo! A bigger turbo would be completely the wrong hardware for your specific application. The vnt-15 you have will make a sh!t ton of power down low where you want it for an off-road, crawler application. I had an injector pump die recently, and while it is out being rebuilt I am sending my injectors/nozzles back to DBW just to make sure there was no damage done by the pump to the nozzles when it died. If there was damage, DBW will fix it and I will be back like new again. For your application a "Stage 1" setting on your nozzles will be more than enough fueling and should provide the best fuel economy as well. I hope this helps to answer your questions.
 

Nevada_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Location
Reno, sort of...
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
I believe what h4vok is referring to is the setup of the nozzles: the nozzles can be set in multiple stages based on how much power is being desired. Stage 1 on the nozzles will provide all the fuel you should need for your application, but a Stage 3 Tune update after swapping out the nozzles will be very nice all around. My engine has over 250k miles and I just upgraded to a Stage 4 tune; I am not concerned about reliability issues as I don't thrash her on a daily basis. Keep the oil changed and don't let the motor overheat and you should have lots of life left w/o worrying about service issues.
 
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Bad_Vision

Active member
Joined
Aug 27, 2017
Location
Grand rapids Michigan area
TDI
1985 Toyota pickup TDI swapped.
I believe what h4vok is referring to is the setup of the nozzles: the nozzles can be set in multiple stages based on how much power is being desired. Stage 1 on the nozzles will provide all the fuel you should need for your application, but a Stage 3 Tune update after swapping out the nozzles will be very nice all around. My engine has over 250k miles and I just upgraded to a Stage 4 tune; I am not concerned about reliability issues as I don't thrash her on a daily basis. Keep the oil changed and don't let the motor overheat and you should have lots of live left w/o worrying about service issues.
Perfect!

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jmodge

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 18, 2015
Location
Greenville, MI
TDI
2001 alh Jetta, RC2 w/.205's 5speed daily summer commuter and 2000 alh Jetta 5spd swap, 2" lift, hitch, stage 3 TDtuning w/.216's winter cruiser, 1996 Tacoma ALh
I wouldn't worry about mileage and durability Nick, Rob down at Diesel Injection Service has over 600,000 miles on a Mk4 Jetta. The vnt 15, mild tune, conservative set up should work great for you. You don't want to crank those 37's to fast do you? LOL! Long block should be good for a long time, lifter bores seem to wear before anything else. Frank Irving may be at Kirk's GTG, he has nice set up for rebuilding heads. I stopped at his shop and checked it out. You can find a spare head and have it gone through if you are concerned about it. I just went through my turbo and replaced the cartridge and cleaned the exhaust side. Bring yours by sometime if you want a seperate eyeball opinion on the turbo condition.
 
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