Electric vehicles (EVs), their emissions, and future viability

dremd said:

Tesla owning hurricane evacuee here.

Very true, but I will say hurricane evacuation typically occurs BEFORE there’s any danger present and my 2000 mile view of fire evacuation is that it occurs while danger is present.

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And the sun is not very usable as you're trying to get out of the fires way.

kjclow said:

And the sun is not very usable as you're trying to get out of the fires way.

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That's probably true. My comment about solar was aimed at the earthquake (or similar)scenario where Californians are huddled in the dark, scared and cold for weeks at a time. I will say that if through bad choices or circumstance I was forced to drive through a wall of flames, I would rather it be in a quality EV than ICEV.

I would say that the number of times that my Tesla has been at to low of a state of charge to get away from a fire could be counted on one hand and have all been when supercharger hopping.

compu_85 said:

I'm reminded of some of the hurricane evacuations in Florida where all the gas stations were out of fuel, but the Supercharger network was working just fine...

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For the last big hurricane I was in the Jacksonville area and had no trouble getting diesel, while there was no gasoline due to lack of delivery.

dremd said:

I would say that the number of times that my Tesla has been at to low of a state of charge to get away from a fire could be counted on one hand and have all been when supercharger hopping.

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The question is two-fold.

1. Would you want to have only EV transport in a blacked out area like we have now in heavily populated areas of California?
2. When the inevitable earthquake happens, wouldn't you rather have something else, perhaps a diesel light 4WD truck?

Just saying.

I'm adventurous enough that if I thought an EV would satisfy my needs, why not!

turbobrick240 said:

I will say that if through bad choices or circumstance I was forced to drive through a wall of flames, I would rather it be in a quality EV than ICEV.

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Why??????????Had to add those to reply.

Tin Man said:

The question is two-fold.
1. Would you want to have only EV transport in a blacked out area like we have now in heavily populated areas of California?
2. When the inevitable earthquake happens, wouldn't you rather have something else, perhaps a diesel light 4WD truck?
Just saying.
I'm adventurous enough that if I thought an EV would satisfy my needs, why not!

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I do own a few Diesels, which vehicle I chose to run away would depend heavily on a) what the disaster was and b) how much energy was onboard already.
Tesla community is unbelievably helpful, it’s basically a brotherhood even more so than TDI club. I’ve had 2 situations that made it abundantly clear that the Tesla bubble is a nice place even when the **** hits the fan.
1) I was having a tough time getting my mother to and from cancer treatments 245 miles each way in a single day (once per week for several months) due to supercharger locations not being super convenient and their not being charging at the hospital. I posted asking for better plans of attack because my mother would ONLY go if we could charge for free so there was no cost for transport to treatment (aka Diesel is outlawed for this run). I got PM’s from 15 people who offered everything from places to stay near hospital, to charging, to use of their longer range Tesla and what ended up was a couple would drive to hospital pick up my car charge it and have it back to me nearly full by the time we needed to leave. Several people asked the hospital to install charging and Tesla ended up installing 4 Hiph power wall connectors so now when we go (once every 3 months) it’s super effortless.
2) My MDU developed a coolant leak (you can take the Supra owner out of the BHG, but you can never take the BHG out of the Supra owner) while I was out of town and my car was stuck at a charge spot 150 miles from home. I got a similar response with tons of options for help.

Oh and somewhat related 3) while my MDU warranty work was getting done I had a Platinum Ford Explorer as a rental and had to take my mom for a checkup. She filled in some paperwork and turned it in, after 2-3 minutes she was politely whisked away from me and then I was greeted politely by security who asked me to come with them. After answering about a hundred questions from a social worker about her well being I was finally told that she had marked down that her stress level was much higher than any other visit. Completely clueless I kept racking my brain for what has changed and all I could come up with was that we had to travel in a $50k brand new SUV and not in the normal Tesla. That matched what she said and I was released.

turbovan+tdi said:

Why??????????Had to add those to reply.

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As long as I'm pulling a Kowalski/Vanishing Point stunt, I might as well hear my final gasps, lol. Seriously though, our petro fuels are pretty flammable. I suppose a diesel Hummer might be preferable under certain bug out conditions and terrain.

turbovan+tdi said:

Why??????????Had to add those to reply.

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EV will keep going underwater, under fire, under no oxygen and other extreme conditions. chance of a vehicle fire is also lower, however if there is a fire you will definitely make the National news.

dremd said:

Oh and somewhat related 3) while my MDU warranty work was getting done I had a Platinum Ford Explorer as a rental and had to take my mom for a checkup. She filled in some paperwork and turned it in, after 2-3 minutes she was politely whisked away from me and then I was greeted politely by security who asked me to come with them. After answering about a hundred questions from a social worker about her well being I was finally told that she had marked down that her stress level was much higher than any other visit. Completely clueless I kept racking my brain for what has changed and all I could come up with was that we had to travel in a $50k brand new SUV and not in the normal Tesla. That matched what she said and I was released.

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Wow, that hospital needs to do some sensitivity training. Maybe they deal with a lot of elder abuse, idk. That's heartwarming how supportive the Tesla community is though.

turbobrick240 said:

Wow, that hospital needs to do some sensitivity training. Maybe they deal with a lot of elder abuse, idk. That's heartwarming how supportive the Tesla community is though.

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They were polite the entire time, I never felt scared, super super confused though. My mother had a pleasant talk with a social worker and didn’t know I was being talked to until I told her.

dremd said:

EV will keep going underwater, under fire, under no oxygen and other extreme conditions...

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Maybe, but the driver and passengers will have a much more difficult journey under those conditions.

...chance of a vehicle fire is also lower, however if there is a fire you will definitely make the National news.

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Maybe. In a crash where the battery package is compromised, the chance of an exciting fire is ever present. Go shoot up an EV sometime and watch the fireworks. You'll probably end up with a lot of toxic smoke and puddles of molten metal.

Cheers!

PH

Powder Hound said:

Maybe, but the driver and passengers will have a much more difficult journey under those conditions.

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Certainly, but the car will keep going AFTER the occupants, not the other way around certainly an advantage.

Powder Hound said:

Maybe. In a crash where the battery package is compromised, the chance of an exciting fire is ever present. Go shoot up an EV sometime and watch the fireworks. You'll probably end up with a lot of toxic smoke and puddles of molten metal.
Cheers!
PH

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Statistics have shown a significant drop in vehicle fires in EV's vs ICE cars. I've been present for 5 ICE vehicle fires (one was mine). I'm actually looking forward to seeing an EV fire (oh the destruction), but I hope it's outside, nobody is inside, and away from anything. And for gods sake that if a police officer is trying to get someone out he isn't to stupid to break glass to grab inside door handle.

Chance of fire from gunshot from inside vehicle is probably (seems likely) higher in EV, but is probably similar or lower when fired from side due to the apparent thickness of the pack from different angles.

My next car will be a Model Y. In about 3 years. My TDI is a good car. 700 mile tanks are not uncommon on the road. That’s pretty hard to beat, and I love my stick and torque, but if anything could get me to switch, it would be a car with a 1 speed and the oomph to get me to highway speed in about 5 seconds. Electric is my future.

TDI’s were a great solution until the German motor industry tried pushing cars with ****ty exhaust and calling them clean. No more.

I’ll take an American made car that I will be proud to own. And it won’t be a GM, Ford, or Fiat/Chrysler. America now has the standard. Tesla.

Cambridge seems to have some good renewable energy choices: https://www.cambridgema.gov/CDD/cli...ingtocompetitivesupplyandgreenpowerpurchasing

My next daily driver will be an EV, but that's still two or three years away. Out of what's on the market right now, Chevrolet Bolt, Kia Niro would meet my needs. Tesla too expensive and I want to see how they stand up over a few winters. Thin paint on an aluminum body (S, X) just results in scraped or worn spots, thin paint on a steel body (3, Y) could lead to them becoming rust-buckets. VW may have something interesting by then although supposedly the hatch (ID3) isn't coming to North America, and I'm not interested in a CUV unless it is a Bolt/Niro sized vehicle, i.e. a hatch masquerating as a CUV.

GoFaster said:

My next daily driver will be an EV, but that's still two or three years away.

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You may be able to get a Fiat 500 with a Tesla powertrain at that point.

turbobrick240 said:

You may be able to get a Fiat 500 with a Tesla powertrain at that point.

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I believe Fiat 500 is going the way of the DoDo this year for USA.

Canada isn't the USA and does sometimes get models that aren't certified for the USA (due to having support for both FMVSS and UNECE compliant vehicles in their safety equipment laws, and due to buying smaller vehicles typically).

BeetleGo said:

I’ll take an American made car that I will be proud to own. And it won’t be a GM, Ford, or Fiat/Chrysler. America now has the standard. Tesla.

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Until they outsource most of the parts production to China. They won't be able to resist the lure of labor at a fraction of the price.

bhtooefr said:

Canada isn't the USA and does sometimes get models that aren't certified for the USA

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Ah, yup, I missed that he is Canuckastani

ToxicDoc said:

Until they outsource most of the parts production to China. They won't be able to resist the lure of labor at a fraction of the price.

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Interesting prediction. It’s still American, and still the best electric car company. Tesla is the first American car company I can and WILL stand behind. I don’t mind paying more for something I’ll drive into the ground!

We're coming up on 45,000 trouble free* miles on our Model 3

*the AC compressor was replaced under warranty because it was getting noisy. It didn't fail completely and was still cooling well.

-J

I just read this piece about a Ford pickup in Berlin getting hoisted away for ICE'ing (blocking)a supercharger. The police even tweeted a joke about how inefficient the truck is. They must be a rare sight in Germany. I would have loved to see the owners face when he came back to no truck.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-owner-helped-by-berlin-police-after-de-iceing-of-ford-truck-from-ev-charging-station/

turbobrick240 said:

I just read this piece about a Ford pickup in Berlin getting hoisted away for ICE'ing (blocking)a supercharger. The police even tweeted a joke about how inefficient the truck is. They must be a rare sight in Germany. I would have loved to see the owners face when he came back to no truck.
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-owner-helped-by-berlin-police-after-de-iceing-of-ford-truck-from-ev-charging-station/

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Looks like the Germans know how to handle an ICEr.

GoFaster said:

My next daily driver will be an EV, but that's still two or three years away. Out of what's on the market right now, Chevrolet Bolt, Kia Niro would meet my needs. Tesla too expensive and I want to see how they stand up over a few winters. Thin paint on an aluminum body (S, X) just results in scraped or worn spots, thin paint on a steel body (3, Y) could lead to them becoming rust-buckets. VW may have something interesting by then although supposedly the hatch (ID3) isn't coming to North America, and I'm not interested in a CUV unless it is a Bolt/Niro sized vehicle, i.e. a hatch masquerating as a CUV.

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I share your sentiment. But, I really wish they'd come back with a powertrain like the Chevy volt had. Seriously the best of both worlds.

A small IC motor putting out ~30hp at pretty much constant rpm, tuned for good NVH, driving the rear wheels through a (simplified) CVT, and a (much smaller) battery to power an electric motor for the front wheels for acceleration would serve a lot of use cases. The small IC motor would provide all steady-state power with a slight excess to recharge the batteries (coupled through the road surface). The battery mass could be cut by 2/3 probably. Conceivably, if super capacitors get good enough, they could be used for instantaneous 'surge' power and further lighten/shrink the battery and/or extend its serviceable life through better power profiling.

The front/rear power sources could be flipped of course for more sporty applications of course. I just picked electric up front for it's inclement weather traction benefits.

nicklockard said:

I share your sentiment. But, I really wish they'd come back with a powertrain like the Chevy volt had. Seriously the best of both worlds.

A small IC motor putting out ~30hp at pretty much constant rpm, tuned for good NVH, driving the rear wheels through a (simplified) CVT, and a (much smaller) battery to power an electric motor for the front wheels for acceleration would serve a lot of use cases. The small IC motor would provide all steady-state power with a slight excess to recharge the batteries (coupled through the road surface). The battery mass could be cut by 2/3 probably. Conceivably, if super capacitors get good enough, they could be used for instantaneous 'surge' power and further lighten/shrink the battery and/or extend its serviceable life through better power profiling.

The front/rear power sources could be flipped of course for more sporty applications of course. I just picked electric up front for it's inclement weather traction benefits.

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I used to feel that way, in fact I thought that BMW I3 REX was ideal, after owning pure EV's for 4 years and about 100K I will say I was wrong, ditch all the complication, weight, maintenance, and wasted space for rarely used ICE and throw some more batteries in if needed/ rent/ an ICEonce or twice per year.

dremd said:

I used to feel that way, in fact I thought that BMW I3 REX was ideal, after owning pure EV's for 4 years and about 100K I will say I was wrong, ditch all the complication, weight, maintenance, and wasted space for rarely used ICE and throw some more batteries in if needed/ rent/ an ICEonce or twice per year.

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I am waiting because Tesla bought and will use Maxwell battery technology, which will up range and shorten charge time.

I agree, rent an ICE if needed. But in a couple years, the number of chargers is set to more than double what there are today.

dremd said:

I used to feel that way, in fact I thought that BMW I3 REX was ideal, after owning pure EV's for 4 years and about 100K I will say I was wrong, ditch all the complication, weight, maintenance, and wasted space for rarely used ICE and throw some more batteries in if needed/ rent/ an ICEonce or twice per year.

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**Looks at your screen name at left**

Yes, I see you live in one of those tiny states the size of one of our counties. <obvious exaggeration, for effect. In reality, you're only half the size of AZ, but it still puts things into perspective.

Different perspective. We like to go to visit friends in Tucson (220 mile round trip) and sometimes tack errands onto the end. We also like to get our dental work done for 1/3 prices in Nogales, MX, 8 hours round trip. These trips are already long enough before you add charge times.

nicklockard said:

**Looks at your screen name at left**

Yes, I see you live in one of those tiny states the size of one of our counties. <obvious exaggeration, for effect. In reality, you're only half the size of AZ, but it still puts things into perspective.

Different perspective. We like to go to visit friends in Tucson (220 mile round trip) and sometimes tack errands onto the end. We also like to get our dental work done for 1/3 prices in Nogales, MX, 8 hours round trip. These trips are already long enough before you add charge times.

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Thank goodness you drive a TDI. We TDI owners can wait things out until chargers are more frequent, and charge times get short enough to compete with filling liquids in our car! In 3-5 years.