NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation

scdevon

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How is this "using it with no ill effects" known?

My understanding of the original B5 limit was was the risk of
"oil dilution". Is it now known that the risks were overstated?
The lack of any significant fuel dilution in UOA's (used oil analysis) with B10 to B20.
 

scdevon

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If they had spent a few extra $$ and injected fuel for the DPF burnoff directly (like Ford, et al), instead of into the cylinder, I would agree.

.
OK, but I believe that cylinder post injection improves fuel economy since it's still done during the latter part of the power stroke. Some is converted to energy and some remains to go downstream to the DPF.

Injecting fuel directly into the exhaust system is 100% wasted fuel.
 

740GLE

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The lack of any significant fuel dilution in UOA's (used oil analysis) with B10 to B20.

Doesn't the owners driving habits depict how much Biostays in the oil? My understanding is that the only reason bio diluts the oil is that it doesn't evaporate as quickly. Longer the run times at highway leads to more of the bio to dissapear.

So I think it'd be wrong to make a blanket statement that because of a couple UOA show there's no problem running B20 for someone that does short jaunts and doesn't eat up massive amounts of highway.

The average person doesn't do UOA, but I'm thinking the average person commutes less than 20 miles at a time.

I could be compleatly wrong by this thought though.
 

bhtooefr

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If they had spent a few extra $$ and injected fuel for the DPF burnoff directly (like Ford, et al), instead of into the cylinder, I would agree.

Maybe 10, not 20. They'll stay as close to the highest mandate as possible.
Ford uses post-injection, just like VW.

GM uses a ninth injector, though.
 

nj1266

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You are absolutely confused. The one with 90K miles was one of the fleet of 40-50 vehicles which were under the Fidelity extended warranty.

The one I referred to above was not far off the 36K and way below the 60K PT warranty threshold. Both of these incidents were posted here by me.

So let me get this straight. Let's assume you came by my dealership and purchased one of my supposidly and totally prime pre-owned TDIs and I specified to you that I replaced the TB assy., along with servicing everything under the sun. You take delivery and shortly down the road the vehicle quits on you and it ends up being a timing belt assy. issue. After investigating the failure, you discoverd that I used some Chinese knock-off roller or tensioner resulting in $3K to $4K of engine damage. Would you give me a pass similar to the pass you want to give VW? Somehow I don't think so and therefore I would most likely be the scum of the earth in your eyes and you would most likely be posting your experience here on this venue until the fricken cows came home.:rolleyes:

Or how about this. Let's assume you continue the routine of only using the Shell station you claim to use each and every fill up and a couple thousand miles down the road or 12K to 13K on your odo, you experience an HPFP failure. The vehicle gets towed into a dealer that hasn't had several HPFP failures and this other dealer immediatey claims fuel contamination or mis-fueling and therefore denies coverage. Would your total appeasment attitude all of a sudden mysteriously change at this point? Or to make it more realiatic, let's assume you just turn 36,001 miles and kaput! You then take it to McKenna and they totally deny coverage due to the vehicle technically being out of warranty and even the area rep refuses to capitulate. I think at that point you would be singing a totally different tune, or would you?:rolleyes: I mean afterall, a $6K to $10K out of pocket repair bill won't kill you, eh? :rolleyes: You gotta love this poop! ;) Later!
Ok, I stand corrected on the car, but that dealership still covered all the HPEP failures under warranty. That is worth something. That is an honest dealership that you can build a relationship with. They took care of all the VW TDIs that had a failed HPFP pump under warranty.

I love situational games, so I will play. First, I will only tow my car to McKenna. I have a 100 mile unlimited towing from AAA. I also have my own truck and trailer. So I can tow my car to where ever I want. So should that situation arise, I have MANY options. I do not even need VW to tow my car for me. There once was a time when owners did not have roadside assistance. :D

Second, you also seem to ignore that I also have mechanical warranty from Geico that covers the HPFP failure. So in case VW does not cover it after 60,000 miles (some say HPFP is covered under 36,000 and some say under 60,000), I have Geico to take care of me.

So as you can see my friend, I have it covered. I am not the sort of guy to live much to chance. I am not the sort of guy to ***** and moan and cry over spilled milk. What happend has happened. I bought a first year production car (something I rarely do) and now I have to live with it for a few years. I will take all the pre-cautions needed and continue to enjoy the car.
 

Samcar222

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Interesting. Just wondering how dealers would react to it.. send you a letter saying "your car is broken, it will need a new $2000 DPF every 30k miles".... lol.
I personally would love a B10 or B15 mandate, as long as the filters and NOx trap etc are ok with it. Which I'm sure they will be (and are).
Very interesting.
 

ssamalin

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Ok, I stand corrected on the car, but that dealership still covered all the HPEP failures under warranty. That is worth something. That is an honest dealership that you can build a relationship with. They took care of all the VW TDIs that had a failed HPFP pump under warranty.

I love situational games, so I will play. First, I will only tow my car to McKenna. I have a 100 mile unlimited towing from AAA. I also have my own truck and trailer. So I can tow my car to where ever I want. So should that situation arise, I have MANY options. I do not even need VW to tow my car for me. There once was a time when owners did not have roadside assistance. :D

Second, you also seem to ignore that I also have mechanical warranty from Geico that covers the HPFP failure. So in case VW does not cover it after 60,000 miles (some say HPFP is covered under 36,000 and some say under 60,000), I have Geico to take care of me.

So as you can see my friend, I have it covered. I am not the sort of guy to live much to chance. I am not the sort of guy to ***** and moan and cry over spilled milk. What happend has happened. I bought a first year production car (something I rarely do) and now I have to live with it for a few years. I will take all the pre-cautions needed and continue to enjoy the car.
I'm glad you're well covered. Just that the average buyer isn't. And when they are concerned over it it's not cool to blame the victims and mock them. They are entitled to be provided for by VW. They don't have your wealth. They bought a VW because VW purports to be affordable by them. So the question may be why don't you buy a Beemer and leave us alone.
 
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tcp_ip_dude

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I'm glad you're well covered. Just that the average buyer isn't. And when they are concerned over it it's not cool to blame the victims and mock them. They are entitled to be provided for by VW. They don't have your wealth. They bought a VW because VW purports to be affordable by them. So the question may be why don't you buy a Beemer and leave us alone.
In the US, I would expect most people will have Comprehensive Insurance since the car is new and collateral for a car loan. My Comprehensive policy with Nationwide covers catastrophic engine failure not covered by warranty such as from misfueling, road debris taking out an oil pan, etc. (less my deductible). You should check your insurance policy, that's all I did (i.e. I didn't add the coverage)
 

ssamalin

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If comprehensive covered this wouldn't someone have made a claim? Even if it did, it's the same difference since rates would go up if VW scammed customers into dumping their warranty responsibilities onto customer's policies. And let's not trivialize deductibles.
 

kjclow

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I would much rather VW covered it under warranty than going to my insurance. In addition to the $250 deductible, they would also find a way to raise my rates to reflect paying for the $8000 - $10,000 repair.
 

tcp_ip_dude

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If comprehensive covered this wouldn't someone have made a claim? Even if it did, it's the same difference since rates would go up if VW scammed customers into dumping their warranty responsibilities onto customer's policies. And let's not trivialize deductibles.
There has been no need to file under Comprehensive. With the exception of maybe 1-2 HPFP failures reported on this site (that I am aware of), all failures have (eventually) been covered by VW warranty.

I may be wrong about this, but as I recall both denials were due to gasoline mis-fueling and the repairs were covered under Comprehensive Insurance after the warranty denial.
 
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jettajay

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I have little concern about being covered under warranty. My concern is driving the car out of warranty.

I would love to take the car to 300K but I cannot in good conscience risk losing all value in the car to a pump failure. I also wonder if the risk of failure increases as the pump ages.
 

CopaMundial

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Ooops...meant GM. Ford does have a "dilution sensor".

So does VW.


It just costs $8000 to reset it after the 'sensor' trips. :D

We really need to get this thread turned into a sticky. It's so hard to find sometimes the way it get buried 3 pages back behind all of the other topics.
 
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kjclow

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I have little concern about being covered under warranty. My concern is driving the car out of warranty.

I would love to take the car to 300K but I cannot in good conscience risk losing all value in the car to a pump failure. I also wonder if the risk of failure increases as the pump ages.
It sounds like the failures have been fairly early in the life of the cars. However, with the continued use of lower quality fuel, there is likely to be continual and gradual degradation of the hpfp until failure. But this is speculation on my part and absolutely no data to back it up!
 

Harvieux

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Ok, I stand corrected on the car, but that dealership still covered all the HPEP failures under warranty. That is worth something. That is an honest dealership that you can build a relationship with. They took care of all the VW TDIs that had a failed HPFP pump under warranty.

I love situational games, so I will play. First, I will only tow my car to McKenna. I have a 100 mile unlimited towing from AAA. I also have my own truck and trailer. So I can tow my car to where ever I want. So should that situation arise, I have MANY options. I do not even need VW to tow my car for me. There once was a time when owners did not have roadside assistance. :D

Second, you also seem to ignore that I also have mechanical warranty from Geico that covers the HPFP failure. So in case VW does not cover it after 60,000 miles (some say HPFP is covered under 36,000 and some say under 60,000), I have Geico to take care of me.

So as you can see my friend, I have it covered. I am not the sort of guy to live much to chance. I am not the sort of guy to ***** and moan and cry over spilled milk. What happend has happened. I bought a first year production car (something I rarely do) and now I have to live with it for a few years. I will take all the pre-cautions needed and continue to enjoy the car.
May I respectfully suggest that you have facts before you post on matters you have no idea about? The owner I had call McKenna was denied coverage for his <than 60K mile HPFP failure. His vehicle was initially taken to his local dealer somewhere in the desert and they too initially denied warranty coverage. I told him to keep the pressure on and even start a small claims suit if all else fails. His continued pressure to the initial dealer prompted a visit by an area rep. who in turn authorized coverage. This very well may have been the outcome at McKenna as well because I would have lobbied to my contacts there to do everything possible.

Yes, I agree with you that McKenna is one of the better dealers in the area. Over the years, I have totally worn out my welcome at nearly all local VW dealers due to their total incompetence followed with my no spin method of telling them so.;) When I relocated to Whittier,CA, I needed a dealer close to me with personnel who trusted that I know what the frick I'm talking about so, I got to know the head shop foreman who runs both the Audi/Porsche side in Norwalk as well as the new VW facility in Cerritos. I also know the service manager and lead SW, Clark Davis quite well. I also exclusively purchase all my OE parts through them. This relationship I have developed with them is as good as it could get because I can get them to do exactly what I want them to do even if I have to personally speak to the tech performing the job which, mind you, is only warranty work. This mutual respect type relationship is quite rare indeed.

Regarding your comments specifying that you have things "covered" has been eloquaintly responded to by others here so, there's no need for me to come back at you on that, eh? ;) Later!
 

Claudio

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It sounds like the failures have been fairly early in the life of the cars. However, with the continued use of lower quality fuel, there is likely to be continual and gradual degradation of the hpfp until failure. But this is speculation on my part and absolutely no data to back it up!
the bad part is that when you fill your car you have no way to know the quality of the fuel you are using
 

abctdi

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I've been filling up with D2 for about 13 years now and ignorance has been bliss. I do add a few ounces of PSDK everytime though.
I just don't need another thing in my life to worry about.
 

jettasportwagen

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I'm unsure what to think about fuel pump failure. There are many 09-10s (more 09's obviously because of age) that have pushed close to the 200K mark without any fuel pump issues. Others, cannot get past 30K.

I think it is an individual car basis. My JSW has 73K miles and hopefully i don't have to mess with a fuel pump issue. If i do, i'll give VW a good fight.
 

ZiggyTheHamster

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There are many 09-10s (more 09's obviously because of age) that have pushed close to the 200K mark without any fuel pump issues.
I thought the record mileage is somewhere just shy of 100K on a early 2009. I mean, I drive a whole lot (100 miles a day!) but I'm still only at 65K. It would be brutal for someone to drive 3 times more than me!
 

JSWTDI09

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I thought the record mileage is somewhere just shy of 100K on a early 2009. I mean, I drive a whole lot (100 miles a day!) but I'm still only at 65K. It would be brutal for someone to drive 3 times more than me!

It is brutal, but not unheard of. When I used to be in the field service business - I routinely drove anywhere from 600 miles per week to 2000 miles per week. I put about 50,000 miles per year on my car just for business travel (plus my own personal travel). Luckily I do not do that for a living anymore (I now train those same field service people), so my '09 JSW still hasn't had it's 30,000 service. However, my company still has some real "road warriors". It was not uncommon for me to drive 400 miles, work for an hour and then drive home 400 miles. The next day I might do the same thing, but in a different direction. It beats sitting at a desk all day pushing paper (IMHO).

Have Fun!

Don
 

dzcad90

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I thought the record mileage is somewhere just shy of 100K on a early 2009. I mean, I drive a whole lot (100 miles a day!) but I'm still only at 65K. It would be brutal for someone to drive 3 times more than me!
Someone posted about one for sale in AZ a few months back with 150K+ on it.

Rod Bearing also states that his daughter has an '09 with over 100K on it.
 

jasonTDI

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MAW in Rockford should be about 110K as well.

I service a dozen or so in the 60-80K range. No issues yet.
 

ZiggyTheHamster

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It beats sitting at a desk all day pushing paper (IMHO).
OT, but I totally agree. Too bad I have one of those jobs that involves sitting at a desk all day. Because I'd totally love to be out driving to a location right now - the weather is absolutely fantastic today.

Also I have 65K on my car (stock tires until yesterday - now I only have 2 left!). TUL to STL and back twice, TUL to MCO and back once for Disney World, plus a 100mi/day commute.
 
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