Is The Diesel Dead?

MrMopar

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tdi4mpg said:
People are looking for fuel efficient alternatives and a big block gas V-8/V-10 won't cut it.
Ya know, this is another one of those "traditions" dying in America, but I don't think a single truck manufacturer today offers a big block engine. I define big block in the traditional sense of having huge displacements to provide torque, and HP on occasion, and I know the line is blurred a bit when a Chevy SB can be bored out to 7+ liters.

But seriously, the newest Chevy pickups have the 6.0 V-8 as the largest size even in the 2500 models because they've been able to wring out over 350 HP from their V-8 engines - which is quite a feat of engineering considering that their old 454 (Vortec 7400) used to make 290 HP, and the retired 8.0 V-8 had 340 HP. No need for a big block when the small block now makes as much power with quite a bit less displacement.

Ford only offers a 5.4 V-8, and you can step up to the 6.8 V-10 which is a small block design since it has the same bore and stroke as the 5.4 V-8.

Dodge has their 4.7 V-8 which is extremely overwhelmed in anything more than basic driving and light hauling. The Hemi comes in only one size - the 5.7 V-8 with 380 HP in the newest Ram pickups.
 

MrMopar

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tdi4mpg said:
I meant to say the 2500/3500 HD diesels will continue to use NOx adsorber catalyst but the last I heard was the Ram 1500 is expected to use urea SCR . . .
Is this an implication that the 1500 pickup will have a Cummins option in the near future? I read the web page you linked to, but it had no info on any half ton pickup diesel engine options.
 
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tdi4mpg

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TurbinePower

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Bleah. All of them are too big to make an easy swap to a Ranger/S-10 sized truck, which would be all I need.

I'm thinking a nice, small, 3-ish liter V6 or a smaller 2.xL I/V4. I'd love a little V4, just for the novelty of it and the compact package it would make for good swaps. :D

Guess I'll just keep using station wagons for my hauling needs. Presently researching how to slip a 1.9 TDI into the Syncro, as the 2.5 I5s are too dang expensive and I don't need that much power.
 

mrGutWrench

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__. Can I get a show of hands? Everyone who:

1) Worked in the car industry for a third of a century, and,

2) Saw all the parade of "the next best engine" every few years, and,

3) Heard all the promises about all the benefits of those engines, and,

4) Saw the success of all those engines and engine designs, and,

5) Expects that we'll ever see one of these engines;

Please raise your hand. OK - I see that the rest of you have your hand firmly down (like mine).
 

Kabin

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That may be true again this time but a couple of big differences today are a customer base suffering from staggering fuel costs and auto manufacturers that can't give away low mpg vehicles.
 

Dimitri16V

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DE
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Kabin said:
Saw this article at pickuptrucks.com. Should be applicable to autos too...

http://www.pickuptrucks.com/index.html (link updated)

Ford and MIT have a new simple engine design that reportedly tromps a diesel engine every way to sunday and it could be on the road by 2012. They use a smaller displacement gas engine w/ a turbo. Each cylinder has 2 injectors, one for gas the other for E85. The E85 allows the engine to run at higher compression (turbo at 35psi) and octane of up to 150. The net result is a substantially less expensive engine with less emissions, 30-35% improved fuel economy vs a gas engine, lighter weight, and increased power.
so, it will have 2 fuel tanks ?
 

tdi4mpg

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mrGutWrench said:
__. Can I get a show of hands? Everyone who:

1) Worked in the car industry for a third of a century, and,

2) Saw all the parade of "the next best engine" every few years, and,

3) Heard all the promises about all the benefits of those engines, and,

4) Saw the success of all those engines and engine designs, and,

5) Expects that we'll ever see one of these engines;

Please raise your hand. OK - I see that the rest of you have your hand firmly down (like mine).
I'd say that recent parallel hybrids and firm commitments to deliver serial hybrids are proving this rule no longer applies. HCCI will be here soon enough too, else OEs are wasting lots of time and money.
 

White Crow

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Making fuel from food is just plain stupid until other ways are found to make alcohol (wood,etc) I’ll never consider any thing that burns it. Bought any food recently? 30% better fuel economy then they used to be well that sounds like the same gain you would get with a diesel with out the torque. The US market has been sitting on their hands for years making huge profits on their SUV’s they may not even be making cars in 2010 at the rate they are going. The European’s have been making fuel efficient cars for ever we are just too spoiled to get out of our big displacement tanks and shift for our self’s Maybe people need a huge 350 to tow their boats oh but wait where did they get all that extra money to fill the boat? The US market needs to change by mind set not by the manufactures.
 

TDIMeister

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White Crow said:
Making fuel from food is just plain stupid until other ways are found to make alcohol (wood,etc)
You cannot start to walk before you learn to crawl. Every new technology has had to grow out of infancy and growing pains.
 

Cleenlivin

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And Who Said Diesel Technology was Dead?

I don't know if this is old news but thought it was interesting to see Volvo developing a diesel/electric/plug-in hybrid. It looks like they might have scooped VW, Mercedes and BMW by developing a practical and perhaps economical car depending on what it cost. Well have to waite and see if we really get it in the US/Canada.


http://editorial.autos.msn.com/listarticle.aspx?cp-documentid=1182104
 

jgilliam1955

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Is diesel cars dead?

I have a 2002 vw tdi. Love this car BUT I am tired paying over 35 cents or higher over premium per gallon. It defeats the advantage of a diesel. I am sorry to say my next car will be a hybrid. It will be nice to have a warm car at 4am when driving to work and paying a lot less for gas. This country has killed the diesel.
 

Das

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Have fun changing your batteries every 105k. Total life of less than 200k.
Also where do those batteries go. Per mile diesel is cleaner than a high milage
Gasser.
 

I800C0LLECT

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Am I missing something?

Presuming an extra $3.50 per 10 gallons and 480miles per those 10 gallons, I don't know what else could come close?...Even if you give them an extra gallon of fuel to make up for the loss of your $3.50.

If anything kills diesel it's a short sighted mindset.
 

VWBeamer

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I have a 2002 vw tdi. Love this car BUT I am tired paying over 35 cents or higher over premium per gallon. It defeats the advantage of a diesel. I am sorry to say my next car will be a hybrid. It will be nice to have a warm car at 4am when driving to work and paying a lot less for gas. This country has killed the diesel.
Math is hard.
 

gulfcoastguy

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I gained 38% in mpg over my previous Matrix, the difference between RUG and diesel when I filled up thursday was 8%. I know I had calculas and differential equations in college but I could do this math in the 3rd or 4th grade.
 

TDI smile

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My Diesel will never be SOLD..... one of the better cars in my life.
Diesel cars are just at the beginning here in Northamerica....
 

olson325is

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You have a valid point. Diesel does cost more then regular. There are many gas cars out there that have the same mpg rating as diesels. I have many friends that have hybrids. My boss has one. The batteries do last longer then 100,000 mile. I know of one person that has over 250,000 mile on the original battery. They work good for what they where designed for. That is where the difference is. You have to relearn how to drive a hybrid. With the diesel you can drive more aggressive and still get great mileage. With a hybrid you drive aggressive and the mileage drops fast. My bosses wife only gets mid 30's with theirs. He gets upper 40's with it. I have an 2001 Jetta TDI and have never got less then 40 mpg with it. I drive it hard. Everyone that I have talked to said that if I had a Prius. It would never get that good of mileage with the way I drive. I just bought a new Golf TDI. I have been getting around 38 mpg. It may not get over 40 all the time, but it is a ton of fun to drive. I drove a lot of cars before I bought the Golf. Most of the cars that got 40 plus mpg where not fun to drive and very under powered. I can see why people like gas cars for the winter, but the heated seats in the new cars work so much better then my 2001. It was a tough choice, but for me it was a no brainer. The Golf was a more fun to drive car.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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I posted this on another thread tonight:

I filled my B4 Passat this week. It got 45 MPG on a tank of about 50% highway (at 75-80 MPH) and the rest suburban stop and go. Fuel was 4.19/gallon. Cost: $62.52. If I had a Fusion hybrid (about the same size), does anyone think I'd get their claimed 47 MPG in 20-30 degree weather, many 5 mile trips, highway speeds at 75+? I think the 36 MPG that owners are reporting may even be optimistic, but let's go with that. 670 miles at 36 MPG is 18.61 gallons. The same station I filled at had RUG at $3.85/gallon. Total cost is $71.65, almost $10 more.

Oh, and the Passat I mention in this example has 251K on it. 250K is nothing in a TDI. And not only will the engine last that long, the whole car is still a pleasure to drive with over 250K on it. I'm not sure you'd feel the same way about a 250 or 300K Prius.
 

mx07gt

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I have a 2002 vw tdi. Love this car BUT I am tired paying over 35 cents or higher over premium per gallon. It defeats the advantage of a diesel. I am sorry to say my next car will be a hybrid. It will be nice to have a warm car at 4am when driving to work and paying a lot less for gas. This country has killed the diesel.
 

pknopp

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We looked at the Prius when we bought our TDI. There really is no good reason for diesel to be so much higher than RUG but all the same there was more to buying the JSW over the Prius than fuel savings.

The JSW is simply as far as I'm concerned, so much nicer to drive. Everything on the Prius is designed for weight savings. It makes everything "thinner". The Prius simply felt more like an "economy" car where the JSW is very solid.

And just for the record, the batteries in the Prius can be recycled. They even make a kit to do your own so you don't have to buy new ones. I still like our JSW so much better.

The new diesels also have auxillary heaters. They will not get hot enough to run you out but they do a good enough job that my windows start to defrost in a few minutes. That combined with heated seats and I've not had complaint one in the winter.
 

DruzTdiCup

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I get into discussions about TDI/Prius comparos and my choice and aaside from the obvious reasons-hopefully longevity and MPG I usually end the discussion with "what happens when the Prius's warranty is out and the giant battery takes a sh!t?" And toyota is a bit plain for my tastes and VWs look good and even better when you mod them.
 

El Dobro

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Hybrid batteries are and have been a non-issue for years. The majority have been lasting the lifetimes of the cars they're in. Private owners and taxi services have been putting 300,000, 400,000, and 500,000 miles on original batteries.
 

Chris

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Hybrid batteries are and have been a non-issue for years. The majority have been lasting the lifetimes of the cars they're in. Private owners and taxi services have been putting 300,000, 400,000, and 500,000 miles on original batteries.
...and there are refurbished batteries available for just a little over $1k.
 

gerry100

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Hybrids are not perfected yet and the best electric out there still lacks range and is therefore hugely inconvenient( see CNBC test of the Tesla).

Admittedly, diesel can be mildly inconvenient but my 450-500 mile range negates that.

(btw -here the the diesel premium varies from 5% to 15% vs RUG).

My fuel cost is still < 11 cts mile.

IMHO, Jetta TDI is unique in that you get the german driving feel and actually meet the advertised EPA mileage ratings, so that skews things.

We looked at a Mazda3 zoom zoom back to back. No comparison, slow,handled like crap and looked like a blown up Hot Wheels
 

Scratchy101

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Edmunds - 2013 Diesel Buying Guide:
http://www.edmunds.com/diesel/2013/buying-guide.html

While the Volkswagen Golf TDI is one of the best-selling cars in Europe, it hasn't yet taken U.S. buyers by storm. Part of the reason is its price, since the TDI is the top trim for the Golf. Still, we feel that the car is worth it because it offers a well-rounded package that few cars in its class can match. The Golf has the premium interior of a more upscale vehicle, is easy to load cargo in thanks to its hatchback, has a sporty suspension and is still capable of up to 42 mpg on the highway.

The Volkswagen Passat TDI offers the same engine/transmission combination as the Golf TDI, but in a roomier midsize sedan body. The Passat earned top honors in our last 40 MPG Challenge, when it surpassed its own EPA numbers in real-world driving conditions. It is an excellent alternative to the Toyota Camry Hybrid or the Ford Fusion Hybrid.


'nuff said.....
 

HBarlow

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Anyone who considers a Prius equivalent to a VW TDI or even superior because it may cost a penny per mile less to drive than a TDI is not a "driver" and certainly not someone who appreciates cars, handling, and performance. A Prius owner is someone who sits in the left front seat and points his (or her) transportation appliance at the destination.

I won't stop driving my Cummins powered Dodge Ram or VW TDI as long as diesel fuel is available.
 
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