Clean Diesel DPF Data Collection Thread

whitedog

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Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
I saw a thread on this forum of a DPF that was full of ash. It is hopeless to think that one cold blow any of it out. They just were not designed for that.
From my reading on DPF cleaners, they have air blowing in one end and a vacuum sucking on the other end so some DPFs can be blown out. Can the VW DPFs be blown out? I don't know. I haven't tried. Maybe that solution that someone linked to would work. I don't know. I haven't tried.
 

Jack Frost

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Location
Rural Manitoba
TDI
2009 Clean Diesel
Have you ever handled ash? Have you ever got it on your clothes or your carpet?

If you have, then you know that unlike dust, ash keeps on breaking down into smaller and smaller particles until they get forever embedded. The DPF filter on our cars filters out the carbon particles and those can be pretty small. So the ash they leave behind is even smaller. I would think that the ash would be forever embedded in the ceramic matrix that filtered out the soot particles.

If other DPF filters can be blown out, I would suspect that the filtering media is more porous than that of our filter's. Therefore the DPF filter is not as effective in trapping the soot and wouldn't meet the standards required of passenger diesel cars.
 

Jack Frost

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Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Location
Rural Manitoba
TDI
2009 Clean Diesel
I just had my DPF replaced at 37,271k. I drive 40k in the city/highway each day, not much short runs. The EGR valve/filter was replaced 3 months agao...could this have affected or clogged the DPF. Will I need to be concerned about the cat. converter?
Update: I read recently that when a regen takes place, the engine management system closes off the EGR to increase the temperature of the exhaust gases and assist in the raising of the DPF filter to its critical temperture.

Perhaps then, one could speculate that if the EGR valve was seized and continued to route cooled exhaust gases to the intake of the motor, then the engine managment system might have difficulty raising the temperature of the DPF to the point the ash would have been burnt off.

Thus the soot would remain clogging the DPF filter. The symtoms to a mechanic would be identical to that of a ash-clogged DPF filter.

However since the EGR filter was replaced a few months ago, there would have surely been a proper regeneration take place since then that would have cleaned out the DPF filter of soot.

Speculating again, perhaps there was so much soot the filter overheated during the regen and the ceramic media broke down clogging the filter.

It is wild speculation but food for thought.
 

scdevon

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Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Location
USA
TDI
None
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/forum/f7/mkv-dpf-dissection-8267/

Looking at the pictures in this link:

I am a pretty good amateur welder. It seems that if you cut the DPF case open, you could almost manually clean the ceramic cells by "ram-rodding" wire through the honeycombs, blow everything out with compressed air and weld the case back together.
Also, S.W.I.M. (Someone Who Isn't Me) used to "cheat" when faced with a clogged catalytic converter by drilling holes through the ceramic medium with drill bits to create unobstructed larger passageways through the ceramic medium that would NEVER clog. A TDI's control unit could be "tricked" into thinking that a DPF's differential pressures were "good enough" by placing several larger holes in an otherwise colgged or partially clogged ceramic medium. It's important to have "some" differential pressure, but not too much. (Where such things are legal, of course):rolleyes:
 
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kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
Those " fixes" make about as much sense as people that used to cut off the catalytic converters with the belief that they would get better mileage and performance using leaded gas instead of unleaded. Of course once you do something like that you hope that no one realizes what you have done when you go to sell the car or if you now have to have an emissions test.
 

scdevon

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Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Location
USA
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None
Those " fixes" make about as much sense as people that used to cut off the catalytic converters with the belief that they would get better mileage and performance using leaded gas instead of unleaded. Of course once you do something like that you hope that no one realizes what you have done when you go to sell the car or if you now have to have an emissions test.

I was never in that school of thought about the catalytic converters. People have been tinkering with VW Diesels since the dawn of time, though. Myself and other hackers enjoy tinkering in a logical manner. Besides, it keeps me out of trouble and gets me out of the house.

When your DPF acts up, just take it to your VW Dealer. I'm sure they'll "fix you right up" for around $3 grand. Better yet, just buy a new car. Whatever you do, don't take matters into your own hands.:rolleyes:
 

MacBuckeye

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2009 Jetta
Fuel additives

A member asked me about adding a column for fuel additives. I'm certainly OK with it. How many of you, who have posted your data, will openly admit to using additives? :)

I'm past the warranty, so I don't have that to worry about. More importantly, do we think additives are going to affect the DPF? Will ash/soot build up quicker? Will more ash/soot burn off allowing the DPF to last longer? Would additives lower or increase the burn temperature during a regen?
What say you?
 

kjclow

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
I was never in that school of thought about the catalytic converters. People have been tinkering with VW Diesels since the dawn of time, though. Myself and other hackers enjoy tinkering in a logical manner. Besides, it keeps me out of trouble and gets me out of the house.
When your DPF acts up, just take it to your VW Dealer. I'm sure they'll "fix you right up" for around $3 grand. Better yet, just buy a new car. Whatever you do, don't take matters into your own hands.:rolleyes:
Hopefully, by the time my dpf acts up, there will be other options than the two you have brought to the table. One: cut the PDF open and screw with the design and possibly change the characteristics. Two: pay the VW garage $3k to replace it.
 

Tarbe

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Location
USA
TDI
Touareg and Sportwagon Sold to VW
How many of you, who have posted your data, will openly admit to using additives? :)

I list my additives in my sig....so no problem putting it in the table! (Not to mention my "unauthorized" oil) :D
 

dean_park

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Location
Wentzville, MO
TDI
2011 United Gray Golf TDI 4DR MAN
MemberName: dean_park
Model Year: 2011
Model: Golf
Tranny: 6M
Miles: 13,989
Oil Ash Volume: 9 ml
Oil Type: Castrol LL03
Avrg. MPG: 39.54
Comments: previous regen 48km prior
 

MacBuckeye

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Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2009 Jetta
I list my additives in my sig....
PS White.... way down yonder in Texas?? :)
I've used Bio a few times, but stick with PS Grey and White 90% of the time. Also used Stanadyne several times. I did buy a jug of Howes, but I'm leary about it. Through regular use, maintenance checks of the fuel filter, and "un-scientific" means, PS seems to be the best. I do think Stanadyne Lubricity Formula made the engine a little quieter, but I found more "junk" in my fuel filter. That junk being some white gooey substance in my fuel filter housing. Almost like wax, but in a semi-liquid state. They say Stanadyne helps trap the water in the fuel filter, so I'm guessing that's what it was. Or perhaps its paraffin that's collecting.
dean_park Thanks for posting. I'll add you to the list this weekend.
BTW.... anyone buy the big jug of PS and get their $4 rebate back from Ted?
Still waiting..... :(
 

Auslndr

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Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Location
Florissant, CO
TDI
2012 Golf TDI, 2009 Golf Variant TDI
MemberName: Auslndr
Model Year: 2009
Model: Jetta Sportwagen
Tranny: 6M
Miles: 73980
Oil Ash Volume: 69
Oil Type: Mobile 1 ESP
Avrg. MPG: 40
Comments: Additive: On and off PowerService, mostly during winter
 

Tarbe

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Location
USA
TDI
Touareg and Sportwagon Sold to VW
"PS White" has water management additives in addition to the anti-gel features. I alternate gray and white myself to mitigate moisture in the high humidity coastal area I live in.

Exactly. It's all about the water.
 

MacBuckeye

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2009 Jetta
Uncle Ted came through.... I received my $4.00 rebate yesterday in the mail from PowerService. Got a free sticker ta boot! :p

Appreciate all the posts. It will be interesting to see how long we can go on the OEM DPF.
 

Gigitt

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2002
Location
Australia
TDI
2011 Mk5 Jetta 125TDI, 1996 Mk3 Golf TDI
MemberName: Gigitt
Model Year: 2011
Model: Mk5 Jetta Sedan (1K)
Tranny: DSG
Miles: 11,620km [7,220mi]
Oil Ash Volume: 0ml
Oil Type: ?? Still Factory
Avrg. MPG: 5.7 l/100km = 41.27 MPG

Comments: Australian Spec 125TDI (170CR), Engine code CEG, Built 09/2010
VCDS v11.11.3 gives me:
[Group 108] Oil Ash Volume=0ml, Particle Filter Carbon Mass (spec)=21.9,
Particle Filter Carbon Mass (act)=3.3
[Group 106] Fuel Consumption since regeneration=22.4L, Driven Distance since regeneration=390km, Time elapsed since Regeneration 660.0
[Group 105] Bin Bits=00000000, Requested Regenerations=6, Temperature=30dC
[Group 101] Engine Speed (G28)=0/min, Emerg Regenerat current Duration=0.0, Energ Regenerat Time since Start=0.0, Sucessful Regenerations=0.0
[Group 240]
Blank
[Group 241] Blank
 

chfscott

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Location
Chicago suburbs
TDI
2011 Sportwagen,DSG
Member, chfscott
Year, 2011
Model, JSW
Mileage, 40442
Trans., DSG
Ash oil volume, 30ml
Oil, Castrol LL03
MPG, 43
 
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bluey

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 18, 2008
Location
Australia
TDI
Skoda Yeti 2.0L 103kW CR TDI (CFHC) [MY09 Polo TDI 1.9 74kW (AXR) retired with hail damage]
I wonder if cetane has any affect on oil ash build up. Anyone know if higher concentrations of cetane increases the burn temperature of diesel fuel? Would a better burn produce less ash? I've been using a good additive from day one, but I don't see my DPF accumulation data being any different than the rest of the posts.
I believe cetane is very important.

VW in Australia recommends diesel with minimum cetane number of CN51 (CZ51 in german) for DPF equipped vehicles and CN49(CZ49) for non-DPF vehicles. Standard diesel here is minimum cetane 46, typically higher, but borderline on the CN51 VW recommendation.

I presume the 120k mile DPF inspection time is based on tests using fuel that meets the VW CN51 standard. EN590 diesel standard also specifies the same CN51 since 2004.

Higher cetane fuel results in less smoke. On our non-DPF PD TDI, the smoke is readily visible on heavy throttle and standard fuel. A cetane improving additive (apparently usually 2EHN) or a "high cetane fuel" reduces visible smoke using the "smoke in the following vehicle's headlights as seen in the rear vision mirror at night" test.

BP launched in 2008 in Australia an "Ultimate Diesel" product which contained a nitro-type (probably 2EHN) cetane improver. Two years later, they removed it due to safety risk assessment - presumably explosion risk of undiluted 2EHN at fuel storage sites. So there are no out of the pump diesel products in Australia that meet the CN51 specification.

2EHN safety information: http://www.atc-europe.org/showdoc.asp?doc_id=294

2EHN info from a large manufacturer:http://www.eurenco.com/en/2ehn/index.html

I read a research paper that found 2EHN alone as an additive increased injector fouling, so I believe 2EHN must be used in an additive which also contains an injector cleaner. A local diesel mechanic uses both a smoke-reducing additive and a periodic injector cleaner (BG 244K) every 7500km (<5000miles).

So, I believe that fuelling a DPF vehicle with fuel which does not meet the VW CN51 specification will result in more smoke. More soot gets DPF-regenerated to more ash, which builds up in the DPF, until it fails. Where fuels have a CN<51, which I understand is most of USA, which is worse than most of Australia, DPF life must be significantly shorter than engineered for CN>=51. At least in the USA, you have an extended DPF warranty, presumably part of the compromise to permit sale of DPF-equipped vehicles in a country where the fuel does not meet VW/VAG specifications.

Unless evidence appears to the contrary, I continue to run a cetane improving (smoke reducing) additive in both our diesel cars.

A poster on an Australian VW forum recently had a DPF failure at 75000km on Mk5 Golf GTD and still under warranty, but VW refused to repair under warranty claiming the DPF is a "consumable item". DPFs cost about AUD2500, compared to a few hundred euros via ebay - something odd going on there - ?price gouging or inferior second quality products being sold on ebay.

At this point, I believe the early DPF failure problem is caused by low cetane fuel not meeting VW specification CN51. In markets where such fuel is not readily available (non-EU), VW is dodging liability for releasing cars with DPFs which are bound to fail early and at great expense to unsuspecting owners.
 

Tarbe

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Location
USA
TDI
Touareg and Sportwagon Sold to VW
134,500 miles and the DPF is still DPF'ing....

Waiting for my excuse to increase the power and fuel economy via some surgery and ecu re-flash. I may be waiting a while longer.
 

CLUTCHNSHIFT

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 7, 2009
Location
Palmdale, CA, USA
TDI
2009 VW Jetta TDI / 6-Speed Automatic DSG w/Tiptronic® / Deep Black / VIN: 3VWRL71K89Mxxxxxx
Great idea on the thread McBuckeye, here you go!

Member Name: CLUTCHNSHIFT

Model Year: 2009

Model: Seddan

Tranny: DSG

Miles: 121,772

Oil Ash Volume: 120 ml (engine was off, if it matters)

Oil Type: Liqui Moly Top Tech 4200 on the last two oil changes.

Avg MPG: 38.7 (life of the car)

Comments: Dealership used Castrol LL03 for the first 6 oil changes, after that I went to Liqui Moly Top Tech 4200 for the 7th oil change, Castrol LL03 for the 8th, Pentosin Super Performance for the 9th, Liqui Moly Top Tech 4200 for the 10th & 11th. The 12th is now due and I will again use Liqui Moly.

Additional Data

Fuel Consumption Since Last Regen: 6.05 USGAL
Distance Since Last Regen: 273.4 Miles
Time Since Last Regen: 324 Minutes
Regenerations Requested: 3
Calculated Soot Load: 11.7g
Measured Soot Load: 0.0g
Averages Since Last Regen: 50.6 MPH & 45.2 MPG

- Peter
 

tdi90hp

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2002
Location
Canuckland
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6 speed(gone but NEVER forgotten)
134,500 miles and the DPF is still DPF'ing....

Waiting for my excuse to increase the power and fuel economy via some surgery and ecu re-flash. I may be waiting a while longer.
Lovin the maturing CR mileage portfolio..Give us an idea of how it's been mechanically.
 

Tarbe

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2002
Location
USA
TDI
Touareg and Sportwagon Sold to VW
Lovin the maturing CR mileage portfolio..Give us an idea of how it's been mechanically.

It has been perfect.

Changed headlights and tail lights.

Otherwise, just normal maintenance. Still running the 2nd set of tires.

Brakes are untouched. All glow plugs and injectors are original.
 

tdi90hp

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2002
Location
Canuckland
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6 speed(gone but NEVER forgotten)
It has been perfect.

Changed headlights and tail lights.

Otherwise, just normal maintenance. Still running the 2nd set of tires.

Brakes are untouched. All glow plugs and injectors are original.
great to hear,,,,keep us in the loop....
 

tdi90hp

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2002
Location
Canuckland
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6 speed(gone but NEVER forgotten)
ya it's a good story...BioD 2% and no additives and he turned over 200K...read the thread
 

MacBuckeye

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2009 Jetta
different oils

Oil Type: Liqui Moly Top Tech 4200 on the last two oil changes.
Comments: Dealership used Castrol LL03 for the first 6 oil changes, after that I went to Liqui Moly Top Tech 4200 for the 7th oil change, Castrol LL03 for the 8th, Pentosin Super Performance for the 9th, Liqui Moly Top Tech 4200 for the 10th & 11th. The 12th is now due and I will again use Liqui Moly.
- Peter
Curious why you keep switching engine oils? Finding good deals on the different oil, or just getting what is available to you at the time?

Great read on the 2009 with all those miles! I'm sitting at 84K no real issues either. Need to get his DPF oil ash info...

I'll update the DPF data this week with the latest posts. Work, kids, wife, and more of the same has me busy. :)
 

andy7079

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 21, 2010
Location
La Grange, IL
TDI
2010 Jetta Sedan, 2014 Touareg
MemberName: andy7079
Model Year: 2010
Model: Jetta Sedan
Tranny: DSG
Miles: 32522
Oil Ash Volume: 30mL
Oil Type: Castrol LL03
Avrg. MPG: 38.1
Comments: Optilube XPD Additive
 

dean_park

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Location
Wentzville, MO
TDI
2011 United Gray Golf TDI 4DR MAN
MemberName: dean_park
Model Year: 2011
Model: Golf
Tranny: 6M
Miles: 19326
Oil Ash Volume: 9 ml
Oil Type: Castrol LL03
Avrg. MPG: 39.93
Comments: previous regen 30km prior
Seems like the level hasn't risen since 13xxx when my last one was done, but in both cases, I caught it right after a regen.
 

dwfdiesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Location
Muskoka Ontario Summer Lecanto FL winter
TDI
2006 Golf & 2012 Golf wagon, 1998 GMC 6.5 with 310,000km
Any of you fellas burn wood to heat your house?
This ash / soot thing reminds me of the wood stove chimney (DPF) when I keep it turned down and smoldering I get much more creosote (soot) build up in my chimney and of course anyone who burns wood knows you need to burn it hot every day to release the soot out the chimney (Italian tune up). But no matter sooner or later enough soot build up starts a chimney fire (active regen) thrusting most of the soot build up out the chimney but as we know if you have a clean out not all goes out into the yard and lays on the snow the rest is collected in the clean out (DPF) as ash which is denser than wood ash and finer due to hot re-burn (active regen) in chimney.
So summary seems to be burn it hot (long runs), use the best dry wood (clean D2 only and low ash oil), be careful not to burn too much paper (wrong additive) which starts a fire you can't control)
lol
I hope to get the software some day but will be left reading these interesting threads till then.
Keep up the good work
 
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