Real quick oil pan heater question....

chrisk1500

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Aug 28, 2008
Location
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Jetta TDI
Hey Guys,

A search turned up nothing quite what I am looking for.

I have an oil pan heater installed on my car.

Is there a time limit to how long you can leave these plugged in? Can I leave it plugged in all day long at work and not burn the heater out or boil the oil?

I know that a zerostart would be the proper way to go but I don't have time to do that, so I will use what I have....

Thanks

Chris
 
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Location
Chicagoland
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2004 golf
What kind is it? Most I have seen arent thermostatically controlled, or anything. Im sure some higher quality ones dont boil the oil.

Heck, I used one of those magnetic ones many years ago. Really didnt do crap. Being outside, the heat dissipated too quick for it to build up and boil.

I always thought wolverine brand to be decent.
http://www.wolverineheater.com/faq.shtml
 

chrisk1500

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Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Location
Saskatchewan
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Jetta TDI
I will have to crawl under the car and take off the plate to get a look at the brand. The car only had 19000 kms on it when I bought it so I would *assume* that it was installed by the dealership.

I read about the fires.....hence my post asking about time it can safely be left on. I doubt my aluminum plate will catch fire like the cheapo plastic junk...

This heater is very well installed. The oil pan was scuffed up and then whoever did the install used grey permatex to hold it on.
 

chrisk1500

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Aug 28, 2008
Location
Saskatchewan
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Jetta TDI
Car was advertised to me as having a 'block heater'.

I took that for granted and then went to install my skidplate only to find an oil pan heater. Talk about disappointment - especially for a guy living in Saskatchewan!

Again, I am not debating who installed it, I just want to know a safe amount of time to leave these things plugged in - that's all.

Thanks
 

QZone

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Ontario, Canada
TDI
2013 Touareg TDI Highline
Chrisk1500;
The scuffed oil pan and grey Permatex sealer is typical of the dealer installed oil pan heaters. The heater is held on to the pan by an adhesive on the pad - the gray sealer is to keep water from working it's way under the pad and gradually releasing the adhesive. My local dealer no longer offers block heaters - pan heaters are now installed on all Audis and VWs.

BTW, it is important to maintain the integrity of the grey sealer. If a chunk comes loose, replace it with RTV silicone seal. These heater pads sometimes do come loose and fall off.
 

mrGutWrench

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chrisk1500 said:
Thanks for the info.
Now does anyone use these? How long do you leave it plugged in at a time?
__. Not to beat a dead horse, I'd *never* plug one in on my car. To many people have had problems with them.

__. Get a coolant heater - it's much better for your car anyway (warms the upper part of the engine, the combustion areas, and upper oil galleries). The oil pan heater only warms the oil in the bottom of the engine and doesn't do a very good job of that -- and the upper end of the engine is still cold, doesn't support starting combustion well, and takes a long time for oil to flow resulting in oil starvation to cams and rockers, etc.
 

chrisk1500

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Aug 28, 2008
Location
Saskatchewan
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Jetta TDI
*sigh*

I already said I know the difference between the two and that I had to use what I have in the meantime...

Anyone have anything productive to add?

If not, can a mod close this thread - I guess I didn't word my question clearly enough. Sorry about that - I just wanted to know if I would be ok leaving it plugged in all day at work....guess I'll find out the hard way...
 

demox

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Mar 16, 2005
Location
Montreal
TDI
Jetta TDI 2000
chrisk1500 said:
*sigh*

I already said I know the difference between the two and that I had to use what I have in the meantime...

Anyone have anything productive to add?

If not, can a mod close this thread - I guess I didn't word my question clearly enough. Sorry about that - I just wanted to know if I would be ok leaving it plugged in all day at work....guess I'll find out the hard way...

I have a 250w one.... installed it myself using lots of silicone sealant
5 years with no problem whatsoever.
Just plug it for 1h1/2 max..you can check the tip of the dipstick
on how warm .
 

dieseldorf

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jcrews

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If you can get a little thermocouple to put on the oil pan, or a temperature sensing gun, you can figure out how hot it gets over time. It's probably under a couple hundred watts. Oil has a good amount of heat capacity, and Aluminum is a good heat sink, so it will take a lot of power (2KWh or more) to heat the oil and keep it warm against the losses to the engine block and cool air.

I would guess that you could leave it plugged in all day for several days even in a shelter, and not overheat.

Your local hardware store or Canadian tire should have a plug in thermostat you can place near the heater to switch it off when (or if) it reaches the temperature setting you buy. Plugging the heater in a GFI should help mitigate any ground fault caused fires if the thing fouls up. A low current circuit breaker or fuse sized for the heater alone can help mitigate any problems caused by overcurrent for added safety.

Once you get that Zerostart in, you'll love it, and they definitely have a safety switch built in.
 

2footbraker

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I've left mine plugged in for 12 hours. I don't think it gets hot enough to boil the oil but you may want to buy a timer to plug in between the heater and the outlet. At some point I would like to install a "frost heater" instead but the pan heater has worked ok so far.
 

Smokerr

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Alaska
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Passat Wagon GL,2005,Silver
The guys asks for help and he gets a lot of opinions.

So, from someone who actually uses these, works on them, installs them etc.

You can leave it plugged in as long as you want. If its been put on by the factory or dealer (mine was factory which I can verify, as the car was still wrapped up in the shipping warping when I first looked at car and the heater pad was listed on the details sheet).

The oil pan heaters are sized per the oil capacity (if done professionally, and the oil pad heater companies put out charts to do so yourself) ) so as not to burn oil. As its synthetic oil, you would have to have it pretty hot anyway.

I plug ours in (when used) when I got to bed at night, and 8-15 hours latter fire it up (weekends I sleep in). No issues.

Oil Pan Vs Circulating Heaters:
This is not a question. An oil pan heater is better for the engine. Period. Getting oil to the engine is the most critical aspect on startup. Worst wear takes place on startup up.
Having your oil at a temperature it flows and pumps better (quicker) to all the bearings is the most important. Circulating heater does not help any of that.
From a comfort standpoint, the circ heater works better. It also assist the fuel mileage situation by having the engine closer to optimum operating temperatures and helps craning. It also means you defrosters works quicker or right away and that also very important.
However, the oil pan heater left on overnight also warms the engine up some, as well as the tranny, which helps the whole situation.


Burning UP:
If you read the post on this, ANY electrical device can burn up. I have seen circulating heaters burn up as well. Be sure you have a working GFI (and or plugged into one). That will catch that sort of an issue.
My lady friend had her stove catch fire right after she bought the place, and it was professionally inspected.
If your GFI trips, fix the heater/circ heater immediately, do not plug it into a regular receptacle to keep it going. The GFI is telling you there is a problem (change cords just to check, though cord damage that causes that is usually obvious).


And, for those who question this, I have a special issue with a standby gen set that is very cold in winter at the bottom (oil pan) due to room setup. I have had the oil pan heater on it for 8 years. I take oil samples, The oil comes out clean (low hp version of the 5.9 so it does not crud up and I load bank it). Oil sample comes back in perfect condition
THIS IS ONE 24 HOURSS A DAY 365 DAYS A YEAR. I believe the VW is around 75 watts. So its like having a light bulb on all night. A circ heat is 1000 to 1500 watts. That is like 15+ light bulbs on. You can save money with the oil pan heat
 

nighthawk62

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Mine has an oil pan heater that has the grey sealant and to myself looks like it was dealer installed. I found it (to my dismay:( ) when I removed the belly pan to do an oil change. I figured the cord sticking out the front certainly went to a block heater. It clearly states 250 watts on the pad. Not many watts in a poor location for raw starting power in my opinion. When I talk about raw starting power I am talking about the best situation for having the engine start in the coldest conditions. I have heard many state on here that an oil pan heater is better at reducing engine wear. It is my opinion that this is completely untrue. The most friction/drag and highest wear in a cold engine occurs between the pistons and cylinder walls. Barring neglect of the TB path most engines will die from cylinders wearing and going bad. A pad heater does very little to warm this area of the engine. They are of low wattage placed on an area that has poor capability of transfering any heat to that area. When the oil is warmed (a little) the whole bottom of the aluminum pan becomes a large radiator dissipating the heat very quickly. Air is an insulator so heat from the top of the oil does not readily move upward to the rest of the engine and heat travelling through the sides of the pan is quickly dissipated to the outside air. I left mine plugged in the other day for about 5 hours in -15 degree celcius weather and then took out VagCom and checked the temps. They were truely dissapointing! :( Clearly some kind of coolant heater is needed but I will certainly not be installing a 1500 or 1000 watt tank heater. I have in the past commented on the majority of people on here that seem to have "Tim Taylor Syndrome". That kind of wattage is completely ridiculous on our tiny engines. At the momment I am putting the bits together to install something more reasonable and will make a post on it when complete. For what it is worth to the OP I believe I could plug that pad heater in on a +30 degree celcius day continuously and not have the oil boil or degrade.
 

jcrews

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1KW isn't rediculous at all. There's 6L of water in the engine, and after 4 hours it's nearly warmed up. A smaller heater would take a long time to heat up the engine as well as these do.

I think the P&T book has the 750 and 1000W as suitable for up to 150 CID engines. That's 2.5L, so it's an appropriate application. 1500W is just too much current for a typical household outlet.
 

mrGutWrench

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nighthawk62 said:
(snip) I have heard many state on here that an oil pan heater is better at reducing engine wear. It is my opinion that this is completely untrue. The most friction/drag and highest wear in a cold engine occurs between the pistons and cylinder walls. (snip)
__. Of course, you're right. And the oil galleries to the cam, rockers, and cylinder head are plugged with almost gellied oil (5w-40 is the best for minimizing this but it's a factor). The entire engine needs to be warmed.
 

nighthawk62

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mrGutWrench said:
__. Of course, you're right. And the oil galleries to the cam, rockers, and cylinder head are plugged with almost gellied oil (5w-40 is the best for minimizing this but it's a factor). The entire engine needs to be warmed.
A coolant heater also warms the head and prevents gelled oil in the galleries. I have lived in Manitoba (colder that a witch's you know what in the winter) my entire life always running used vehicles and have had no major engine or tranny catastrophies. One camshaft (1980 chev malibu with a 305 - known problem) and one head gasket (1988 Toyota 22RE engine this last sping with 285,000 km) Always ran 5-30 oil and used 300 - 400 watt block heaters in the winter. Changed the oil and filter on time, treated the vehicles with respect and did regular maintenance. Never had had any reason to use an oil pan heater, but since there is one installed I will probably continue to use it in conjunction with the coolant heater.
 

mrGutWrench

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'03 Jetta Wagon, 5-speed, 563K Miles (July '23)
nighthawk62 said:
A coolant heater also warms the head and prevents gelled oil in the galleries. (snip)
__. Sorry, NH. That was exactly the point that I was (not very clearly) trying to make. An engine with no heater in the cold is "plugged up" on top and the cam, lifters, cam bearings, rings, etc. are running mostly dry at start up. An engine with a pan heater has warm oil in the bottom of the engine but the top end is still plugged up and running cold. By far the best is a proper block heater in a freeze-plug but the TDI doesn't have these plugs so the external coolant heater is the next best thing. The external coolant heater loses heat through the hoses and doesn't put it direct into the engine like a "block heater" does but the ex. coolant heater is the second best thing by a long way.
 

bakdoor

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Ok, I don't want to debate the advantages of a pan heater vs. a coolant heater, but here's my experience: I've had a TDI Frostheater in my '06 almost since new. I set it up on a timer so it kicks on around 5 AM and by the time I'm ready to leave for work, the engine is nice and toasty. Also, the glow plugs don't have to run as long when it's heated like this, and that was a major problem with my '99 Jetta--I went through many GP relays in that car, and anything I can do to make it easier on GPs is going to make them last longer, so that's an added bonus. It starts much easier, warms up faster, and is a whole lot quieter from the get-go.

I'm sure the '06 would start without it, and I'm sure that there is at least some engine wear that occurs at start-up with the Frostheater, but that would be happening even if you didn't have any heater installed. I can't believe that a coolant heater would make start-up wear worse, ya know? And why did VW discontinue oil pan heaters as an option? You can't even order one from your stealership's parts department any more.
Anyway, here's the link:
http://www.frostheater.com/
 

mrGutWrench

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bakdoor said:
(snip) I can't believe that a coolant heater would make start-up wear worse, ya know? (snip)
__. No, no. A coolant heater won't make start-up wear worse. Here's the ranking:

1) (Worst) Cold Engine
2) (Almost as bad) Oil Pan Heater
3) (Much better) External Coolant Heater
4) (A tiny bit better than 3) Block Heater*
5) (Probably about like 4) Parked in a 70 degree (F.) garage

* Not available for a TDI engine.

__. This ranking is my subjective opinion but it's probably not far off.
 

chrisk1500

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Jetta TDI
Left it plugged in for over 15 hours straight.

No fires, but it certainly didn't do much for the cold start....

Brr....-35 celsius and she gets a little cranky....
 

Brock_from_WI

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Smokerr said:
Having your oil at a temperature it flows and pumps better (quicker) to all the bearings is the most important. Circulating heater does not help any of that.
While I agree with most of what you said, have you ever measured the oil temps after a coolant heater has run for 3-4 hours? Using a laser thermometer I measured our oil pan at 155F, yes the bottom of the oil pan, I can only guess the oil in there was warmer then that so a coolant heater does warm up the oil as well, along with the rest of the engine.

As others have noted, it not what you heat the engine up with, be it an oil pan, coolant or whatever, anything can fail and potentially cause a fire. A ground fault outlet and inspecting the appliance regularly is the best thing you can do to prevent it.
 

d-man

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alberta
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I leave it plugged in all the time. I installed a Napa pan heater. cost was $80 for the higher quality one. Plus I only plug it in when its -15C or colder.
Last week got down to -38C and there is no way the car would have started if I had not plugged it in, as it was the start was a little rough for the first minute. When I was taking the car to the stealership for oil changes no one said anything about the pan heater I think it could be because its not the 15 dollar cheapo. anyways keep it clean and there should be no problems
 

WeedWhip

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mrGutWrench said:
__. No, no. A coolant heater won't make start-up wear worse. Here's the ranking:

1) (Worst) Cold Engine
2) (Almost as bad) Oil Pan Heater
3) (Much better) External Coolant Heater
4) (A tiny bit better than 3) Block Heater*
5) (Probably about like 4) Parked in a 70 degree (F.) garage

* Not available for a TDI engine.

__. This ranking is my subjective opinion but it's probably not far off.
I agree with MrgutWrench. I have a coolant heater....I think I bought it from Terry that was on this site. I've had the heater for 5 years with no problems. I use a timer set for 2-3 hours before I leave for work. Starts like its summer time:) . Just don't set it for less than 1 hour....I read that the temp probe will think its warm and you might have starting issue.
 

XXX_er

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northern B.C.
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I think the main thing is you use whatever gets your car started ,an oil pan heater plugged in for 3 hrs at -25 will do the trick for me
 
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