DPM
Top Post Dawg
was a problem ten years ago, don't seem to hear of problems any more.
Absolutely. We must all remain fully aware of this.As this thread gets longer, we drift away from the thing that is most important here. It us not the fact that the HPFP can fail, all compnonts can fail. It is not the frequency of failure -- honestly on the scale of mechanical reliability it isn't all that bad.
It is the fact that the design of the fueling system is such that the failure necessitates its complete replacement, to the tune of $8,000 +.
It is unreasonable to think this is okay, especially for a $26,000 "family" vehicle.
I love my JSW. For well under thirty grand it is a bargain. For $34,000 or $42,000, not so much. I shouldn't have to start an escrow account just to make sure my car can continue to run.
P.
Sent from my Sensation using Tapatalk
I'd love to know the HPFP catastrophic failure numbers for all cars with CR engines across the EU.
$140/fillup vs $8000 for the system.They do.
Introducing our new B5 Syndiesel (R). This is the new spec fuel for the VW Jetta TDI Cup and it's available ONLY AT HYPERFUELS!!!
But at over $10 a gallon, I don't think anyone is going to be buying it as a primary fuel for their car.
If only you could be sure that would save the pump.$140/fillup vs $8000 for the system.
i'll take my chances.
I agree with you. After all if the failures were only related to poor fuel, then we would all be on at least our second pump, maybe third or fourth.I agree with DPM above where he posted that all the designs would spread the shrapnel thoughout the system. The design issue is covered in depth with the threads by dwiesel, eddif, and oilhammer covering the root cause of the failures. I think we've seen enough of these failures now to conclude that they aren't all caused by substandard lubricity. This leads me to conclude that the design itself is weak.
That is referring to gasoline HPFP failures. Primarily the 335i, if memory serves.
I know, but all the defective pumps were made by Bosch. If you read toward the end of the post it appears BMW switched to Continental HPFP designs and was retrofitting failed pumps with the new Continental design.That is referring to gasoline HPFP failures. Primarily the 335i, if memory serves.
IMO, if it ever comes down to that, it depends which one would cost VW less. And it seems to me it would make more business sense to go with the second option. Option one would would require a lot of parts cost, labor cost, and would certainly give the VW TDI a black mark in the press, which could hamper sales.Then the question becomes, will VW replace all the Bosch pumps on a recall or only replace them under double secret warranty after one fails.
Subaru s have issues too, I own a 2010 Outback 3.6R that has serious vibration problems at highway speed that a number of TSBs have failed to address. Turbo Subaru s have known oil starvation issues in the 2007+ model range.With regards to the BMW gasoline HPFP in cars with N54 motors, the design of the pump was faulty (due to US fuel). After a while, BMW admitted to it and was replacing failed units with the same design new units, as they did not have a new design available yet. Once they redesigned the HPFP, they started replacing failed units with the new pumps.
On top of that, every BMW 335 you buy, comes with 100k miles free HPFP replacement warranty that you get in writing, as a separate document. BMW figured that it would be cheaper to pay for replacements of units that fail (not all fail, apparently), than to have a full-on recall on these pumps.
Will VW do the same? Who knows. Will resale value of CR TDIs drop once this whole things becomes common knowledge? Probably. I for one won't care, as I just sold my '10 JSW TDI with 35k miles for $20k. After having non-start issues, engine bucking and cutting out and over-the-crest hiccups, I had enough and cut my losses early. Got a turbo Subaru instead. Not as frugal as the TDI, but a lot more fun and no known serious issues...
Not to go off topic here. But my car does not have the 'shimmy' issue. Turbo oil starvation was due to plugged banjo oil bolt passages. Not a problem on VF54 cars. No SERIOUS issues.Subaru s have issues too, I own a 2010 Outback 3.6R that has serious vibration problems at highway speed that a number of TSBs have failed to address. Turbo Subaru s have known oil starvation issues in the 2007+ model range.
Can you clarify some things for me (I keep a spreadsheet of the TDI Club pumps)? Normally, a pump will say "BPT ####" and either have numbers under it or not. Both are always four digits. In your case, you have "BPY 070757" - should it be something like "BPT 0757" or is it really as you wrote? Also, did you notice any green or yellow dots near the label?Someone asked me to get the model number from the new pump. It takes a mirror and you have to read updide down and backward so here is the info on the bottom of the pum taking into account the fore mentioned. I don't know which of this is the model number so here is everything off the bottome of the pump as it appears on the ID tag:
BOSCH 515
0445 010 508
CR/CP4S1/R35/20
03L 130 7755A
09091111
BPY070757
Made in Czech Republic
On top of that, every BMW 335 you buy, comes with 100k miles free HPFP replacement warranty that you get in writing,
Costs of rebuilding the engine of $6000 - $8000 (based on numbers posted within this thread) for 1% of the diesels sold vs (WAG) $500 for a new/redesigned HPFP for the remaining 99%. At 100,000 vehicles, that would equate to a cost of $6 million versus roughly $50 million. I know which one the accountants would pick.IMO, if it ever comes down to that, it depends which one would cost VW less. And it seems to me it would make more business sense to go with the second option. Option one would would require a lot of parts cost, labor cost, and would certainly give the VW TDI a black mark in the press, which could hamper sales.
Is that 100K warranty on the replacement pump or on the total miles of the car? Could be a huge difference in the life and resale of the car.WOW! A HUNDRED THOUSAND miles!! (rolleyes)
You don't know German car companies very well, do you? VW will NEVER proactively replace the questionable pumps. At best, they will assist people if and when their pump fails.Then the question becomes, will VW replace all the Bosch pumps on a recall...............
Does this pertain only to the gassers, or diesels as well? I've never heard of it in any BMW diesel discussion. Do you have a link?...every BMW 335 you buy, comes with 100k miles free HPFP replacement warranty that you get in writing, as a separate document. ...
BMW Technical Bulletin SI B 13 03 09
Date: April 2009
Subject: BMW emissions warranty of the High Pressure Fuel Pump (HDP) has been extended from 4 years or 50,000 miles to 10 years or 120,000 miles, whichever comes first.
This has nothing to do with it being a German company. Show me any company that will proactively replace systems on all vehicles when the repair is in the $thousands and I will show you a company that is out of business!You don't know German car companies very well, do you? VW will NEVER proactively replace the questionable pumps. At best, they will assist people if and when their pump fails. ...
The above secnarios are enirely dependent on how widely publicized the failures are. At a current failure rate of less than 1%, it is hard to imagine that would tank the resale of the whole line. Especially if the failures are related to a specific lot or time frame of manufacturing of the HPFP.IF VW doesn't take care of the post-warranty CR customers re: HPFP, resale values are going to tank, as it becomes widely understood that these things can suffer total economic self destruction with no notice. Think: Chevy Vega
CR resale values are holding for the time being, but unless VW comes up with a satisfactory resolution to the HPFP problem, they are not going to stay up.
...and that's the reason why you'll never see a recall.Costs of rebuilding the engine of $6000 - $8000 (based on numbers posted within this thread) for 1% of the diesels sold vs (WAG) $500 for a new/redesigned HPFP for the remaining 99%. At 100,000 vehicles, that would equate to a cost of $6 million versus roughly $50 million. I know which one the accountants would pick.
If there had been deaths/serious injuries caused by the failure, then it would be a different matter.