TDI sportwagen HPFP failure - Rust and metal in the fuel pump.

house-1221

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Location
atlanta
TDI
2009 JSW
I just wanted to report the issue that I'm having, give the details and get some advice. I have read the horror stories and i'm a little concerned to say the least.
Car details
2009 jetta sportwagon TDI
6 speed manual
under 8000 miles
don't know build date - car was bought in july 2009
The story goes like this...
First long road trip with the family on a Friday afternoon - GA to PA and back. Returning home (about 9 hours away) and traveling on the interstate, first the flashing glow plugs indicator light comes on and then the check engine. The engine starting reducing in power as i made it the the exit. When i got to the exit ramp and took my foot off the accelerator, the car stalled. After a tow to dealership the service department had enough time to take a look at the car before they closed. I was told the fuel pump was "shredded" - they found rust and metal fragments in the pump. The entire fuel system would need to be replaced. They didn't have time to test the fuel contamination that day, and would have to talk with VoA on Monday. The service department did give me a loaner (it is a POS). So the good news is the family and dog are safe and home, even though we are still 9 hours away from our VW.
I just am waiting for the phone call on monday from the dealership.
I did fill up before i left, and had approximately 1/2 a tank left when the car died.
 

Harvieux

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Aug 15, 1998
Location
Whittier,CA-USA
TDI
06 A5 Pkg.2 w/navi & ASEP
I recently had a conversation with a shop foreman at one of my local VW dealer and I mentioned this HPFP issue with him and he confirmed that he had 2 confirmed cases to date at his dealer. Both required the $10K total fuel system replacement fix and he agrees that this could be a huge problem for VWAG. Later!
 

TDIzumSpass

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Location
Waukesha Cty, WI
TDI
2009 Jetta Sportwagen TDI 6M
OMG! - My condolences for your misfortune. This is my (and all of us CBEA engine owners') greatest fear with our cars.

Can you provide the forum with any more details of this event, i.e.:

how was the car running in the hours, days, weeks prior to this (rough idle,

where did you get your fuel (truck stop or corner station)

grade of diesel being used (No. 1, No. 2, any % biodiesel, etc.)

using any fuel additives (if you don't wish to reveal for warranty concerns that is understood)

did you (or someone else) siphon out or replace the fuel filter recently? Did they follow the proper procedure for priming the HPFP?

I know that you must be pretty stressed out at the moment, but please try to pressure VoA to reveal what Volkswagen of Germany is doing to understand and resolve this problem. This failure is becoming a trend on this site.
 

TDIzumSpass

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Location
Waukesha Cty, WI
TDI
2009 Jetta Sportwagen TDI 6M
One other variable that might be important. What level of fuel did you commonly keep in the tank? I have heard that running the tank down to nearly empty is pretty bad for these pumps (although that would only be true for the in-tank pump unless there is air in the line):confused:
 

Quick Storm

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Location
NorCal
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI
BMW has had a BIG problem with HPFP on the twin turbo 3l inline 6cylinders (gas). I have personally installed several on the same cars, and typically a car has a least 2 replaced. These pumps are not built by BMW, but BMW has extended the warranty on the pumps for 10yr/100K. So VW is not the only manufacturer with these sorts of problems.
 
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TDIzumSpass

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2009
Location
Waukesha Cty, WI
TDI
2009 Jetta Sportwagen TDI 6M
I am trying to find an e-mail contact address (in Wolfsburg) to inquire about this fuel pump issue. I have a friend in Braunschweig; perhaps he can help. Can anyone provide me with a contact number?

If we can apply enough pressure, they will have to do something about this. Can you imagine the impact if the media reports "Volkswagen diesel owners pay $10,000 to replace failed fuel pump"? :eek: In light of the recent focus on Toyota, they would jump all over this.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
TDIzumSpass said:
did you (or someone else) siphon out or replace the fuel filter recently? Did they follow the proper procedure for priming the HPFP?
wow, under 8K miles and this. BTW I don't think he checked his fuel filter as no need to until 20K, at least thats what they say.

An additional Fuel water seporator is a must in these, Dewsiel and I agree, that standard fuel filter is doing no good.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Have you been using a lubricity additive? Lack of additive use seems to be a pattern in pump failure. Since VW doesn't recommend an additive, this clearly isn't neglect on your part, but I'm wondering if there's more evidence here that ULSD in the US doesn't provide adequate lubrication in this application.
 

MostroDiesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2009
Location
North Haven, CT and Brooklyn, NY
TDI
2012 Passat Gasser VR6; (Sold and missed) 09 JSW DSG Pano Blue Graphite Build Date 05/09
Are complaints being lodged with the NHTSA regarding these pump issues? Everything else about my car gives me thrills, but the HPFP issue gives me the chills. Surely VW is going to have to be on the hook for these failures.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
I really don't see it as a safty issue, if it was sudden complete powerloss which places the car in an uncontrollable situation. Sounds like the ECU is doing it's thing, noticing a failing part and providing a means for you to pull off to the side of the road and have it fixed. Sould everyone that had a bad MAF or VNT control go bad also file with the NHTSA.

Same thing as the cam issue, does that affect safty?

I guess it can't hurt to report and for the NHTSA to make the call if it affects safty.
 

MostroDiesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2009
Location
North Haven, CT and Brooklyn, NY
TDI
2012 Passat Gasser VR6; (Sold and missed) 09 JSW DSG Pano Blue Graphite Build Date 05/09
Agreed, not a safety issue

Is there another place to lodge complaints about vehicle defects NOT related to safety?

Also, if anyone has one, perhaps we could get a look at the list of items to be replaced as part of a total fuel system rebuild? I wonder how much of the cost is made up of labor versus parts, and whether this work would be within the reach of an experienced wrench such as me.

It would be useful to know the steps involved for the benefit of future sufferers, especially if they could DIY the job post-warranty.
 

Rodya

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 19, 2009
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI; 2009 VW Rabbit and 2013 VW Golf Gasser
File a DEFECT INVESTIGATION

File a DEFECT INVESTIGATION with the NHTSA... the HPFP failure most definitely seems like a safety-related defect... and should be stated as such... as quoted form the website... "If a safety-related defect exists in a motor vehicle or item of motor vehicle equipment, the manufacturer must provide a remendy at no cost to the owner. Your complaint is the first step in the process."
 

house-1221

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Location
atlanta
TDI
2009 JSW
TDIzumSpass said:
OMG! - My condolences for your misfortune. This is my (and all of us CBEA engine owners') greatest fear with our cars.

Can you provide the forum with any more details of this event, i.e.:

how was the car running in the hours, days, weeks prior to this (rough idle,
CAR HAD BEEN RUNNING ABOUT 3 HOURS - NO ROUGH IDLE - NOTHING OUT OF THE ORDINARY
where did you get your fuel (truck stop or corner station)
CORNER STATION - FUELED UP BEFORE I LEFT HAD 1/4 OF A TANK LEFT+/-

grade of diesel being used (No. 1, No. 2, any % biodiesel, etc.)
NOT SURE WHAT YOU MEAN - ULTRA LOW SULFUR

using any fuel additives (if you don't wish to reveal for warranty concerns that is understood)
NO

did you (or someone else) siphon out or replace the fuel filter recently? Did they follow the proper procedure for priming the HPFP?
NO

I know that you must be pretty stressed out at the moment, but please try to pressure VoA to reveal what Volkswagen of Germany is doing to understand and resolve this problem. This failure is becoming a trend on this site.
I WILL
 

RebelTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2009
Location
Boston, MA
TDI
2016 Audi Q5 TDI, 2016 BMW 535d Xdrive
I hate to see HPFP failure reports continue to come in. I have a 2010 Jetta sedan with just under 4K miles. So far no issues and I hope it stays that way. I have not read any issues with rust/metal in the fuel lines of any of the previous versions of the TDIs. Since it seems like a significant amount of water must be getting into the fuel to promote rust, there must be something about the design of the CRs that promotes water build up in the fuel tank. The fuel gets heated and recirculated back to the tank to minimize gelling in cold weather. I worry that the heating, followed by cooling in winter months would favor condensation of water in the tank. That's one reason I like to keep my tank close to full as much as possible. I know that makes monitoring mpg difficult, but anything to minimize water/rust build up can't be bad. I've really been following the recs in the owner's manual in terms of fuel usage. I only use the ULSD provided by my local Irving station. I hope there is a definitive resolution soon. After getting 48 mpg on a recent trip (per MFD) I'm loving this car!
 

house-1221

Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Location
atlanta
TDI
2009 JSW
IndigoBlueWagon said:
Have you been using a lubricity additive? Lack of additive use seems to be a pattern in pump failure. Since VW doesn't recommend an additive, this clearly isn't neglect on your part, but I'm wondering if there's more evidence here that ULSD in the US doesn't provide adequate lubrication in this application.
NO I DIDN'T USE ANY ADDITIVES.
 

Fencemaker

Veteran Member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Location
Washington, PA (SW PA)
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI 5sp; 2009 JSW TDI 6sp
Originally Posted by 740GLE
I really don't see it as a safty issue, if it was sudden complete powerloss which places the car in an uncontrollable situation. Sounds like the ECU is doing it's thing, noticing a failing part and providing a means for you to pull off to the side of the road and have it fixed. Sould everyone that had a bad MAF or VNT control go bad also file with the NHTSA.

Same thing as the cam issue, does that affect safty?
I completely disagree. You must live in a different part of the world than me. But, maybe we can agree to disagree. :)

Where I live, having your car lose all its power while you are going 65 mph in the left lane with an 18 wheeler 12 feet off your rear bumper, or having your car refuse to drive halfway through a left turn in a busy intersection with lines of cars racing towards you at 50+ mph, or losing all power when you are just about done with your merge onto a busy highway with cars racing up behind you, or basically in almost any real world driving situation at all - well, to me that is a HUGE SAFETY ISSUE.

And if you doubt that fact, I assure you that when NHTSA forced Volvo to recalibrate the fuel delivery software in mine and every other American's 1999-2002 Volvo V70 wagons because they would uncontrollably and without warning stall out or fail to hold an idle and become undriveable - well, that was a safety issue. And the three times I had that happen in our Volvo while I was in the middle of a left turn across two lanes of 50 mph traffic trying desperately to get it across the road while it was in limp mode - well, I assure you that too was a safety issue.

So, I have to disagree and state that I fail to see how an imploding HPFP causing the TDI to suddenly and uncontrollably lose all its power isn't the exact same situation as the Volvo recall.

So I say please, please report these HPFP failures to NHTSA.
 

dweisel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Location
Wheeling, West Virginia
TDI
dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
740GLE said:
wow, under 8K miles and this. BTW I don't think he checked his fuel filter as no need to until 20K, at least thats what they say.

An additional Fuel water seporator is a must in these, Dweisel and I agree, that standard fuel filter is doing no good.
Well my feelings are that as complex as everything else is on the new CBEA engines.................its a pretty simplistic fuel filtering system. I'd like to see at least a double filtering system with a water seperator and water in fuel warning light.

Dweisel
 
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maverick395

Active member
Joined
Dec 22, 2009
Location
texas
TDI
2009 VW Jetta TDI
house-1221 said:
I just wanted to report the issue that I'm having, give the details and get some advice. I have read the horror stories and i'm a little concerned to say the least.
Car details
2009 jetta sportwagon TDI
6 speed manual
under 8000 miles
don't know build date - car was bought in july 2009
The story goes like this...
First long road trip with the family on a Friday afternoon - GA to PA and back. Returning home (about 9 hours away) and traveling on the interstate, first the flashing glow plugs indicator light comes on and then the check engine. The engine starting reducing in power as i made it the the exit. When i got to the exit ramp and took my foot off the accelerator, the car stalled. After a tow to dealership the service department had enough time to take a look at the car before they closed. I was told the fuel pump was "shredded" - they found rust and metal fragments in the pump. The entire fuel system would need to be replaced. They didn't have time to test the fuel contamination that day, and would have to talk with VoA on Monday. The service department did give me a loaner (it is a POS). So the good news is the family and dog are safe and home, even though we are still 9 hours away from our VW.
I just am waiting for the phone call on monday from the dealership.
I did fill up before i left, and had approximately 1/2 a tank left when the car died.
House,

I hate that another loyal VW customer is experiencing this failure. Ask to see the evidence of the rust, metal shavings etc. Document everything, every conversation and get everything in writing. Obtain fuel samples from the tank, fuel filter housing and commonrail and conduct your own flash point tests with an independant lab. Take pics, organize copies of fuel receipts, etc. If you have read all of the stories about our failures, then you already know some of the responses you will get from VWoA. I have experienced two failures of this HPFP with less than 36k miles on my car. If I can be of any help just PM me.

MAV
 

dweisel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Location
Wheeling, West Virginia
TDI
dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
maverick395 said:
House,

I hate that another loyal VW customer is experiencing this failure. Ask to see the evidence of the rust, metal shavings etc. Document everything, every conversation and get everything in writing. Obtain fuel samples from the tank, fuel filter housing and commonrail and conduct your own flash point tests with an independant lab. Take pics, organize copies of fuel receipts, etc. If you have read all of the stories about our failures, then you already know some of the responses you will get from VWoA. I have experienced two failures of this HPFP with less than 36k miles on my car. If I can be of any help just PM me.

MAV
It will be hard for house-1221 to gather anything much in the way of fuel samples seeing how he is 9 hours away from the car at the moment. Right now its just "wait and see" on VW's decision as to whether they will warrant the repairs. Hopefully they will cover it under warranty and it will be the end of the story.If not its just begun.

Dweisel
 

gpshumway

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2005
Location
Minneapolis, MN
TDI
2000 Jetta
RebelTDI said:
I hate to see HPFP failure reports continue to come in. I have a 2010 Jetta sedan with just under 4K miles. So far no issues and I hope it stays that way. I have not read any issues with rust/metal in the fuel lines of any of the previous versions of the TDIs. Since it seems like a significant amount of water must be getting into the fuel to promote rust, there must be something about the design of the CRs that promotes water build up in the fuel tank. The fuel gets heated and recirculated back to the tank to minimize gelling in cold weather. I worry that the heating, followed by cooling in winter months would favor condensation of water in the tank. That's one reason I like to keep my tank close to full as much as possible. I know that makes monitoring mpg difficult, but anything to minimize water/rust build up can't be bad. I've really been following the recs in the owner's manual in terms of fuel usage. I only use the ULSD provided by my local Irving station. I hope there is a definitive resolution soon. After getting 48 mpg on a recent trip (per MFD) I'm loving this car!
Keeping your tank full is certainly a valiant effort, but say you extend the life of your HPFP by 5x and it fails at 65,000 miles, just after the warranty expires, then what? Given its cost and criticality to engine function an HPFP should be designed to last 15 years and 300,000 miles. At the very least, the rash of failures is evidence of a design lacking the robustness this component deserves to have.

Given the "rust" in this case formed in seven months and less than 8,000 miles of use it seems like there's a serious quality issue either with manufacturing or materials selection during design. I don't care how much water is in your fuel, the system shouldn't corrode that soon. I don't know the electrolytic properties of diesel fuel but condensed water should be relatively pure, making it a poor electrolyte. I'd love to know the chemistry/physics of corrosion forming this fast in a system supposedly designed to last at least a decade.

I suspect nobody has confirmed that the red substance claimed by dealers to be rust and shown in other HPFP failure victims' pictures is actually iron oxide or corrosion of any kind. It could very well be something else, totally unrelated to water in the fuel.

Here's hoping your pump lives a long, healthy life and the OP gets his car fixed under warranty.
 

rick chip

Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2008
Location
Cleveland, OH
TDI
09 Jetta TDI
I had a 2009 sedan that failed at 13,000 miles and my dealer and VAG area rep attributed it to being run out of fuel at sometime or other, maybe as it came of the line. Anyway it was fixed under warranty without problems.

Because of earlier problems waiting for parts it turned out to be a candidate for a lemon law car and was replaced at no charge, now I have a 2010 sedan in which I use a fuel additive just in case

I hope thngs work out for you.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
Fencemaker said:
I completely disagree. You must live in a different part of the world than me. But, maybe we can agree to disagree. :)

Where I live, having your car lose all its power while you are going 65 mph in the left lane with an 18 wheeler 12 feet off your rear bumper, or having your car refuse to drive halfway through a left turn in a busy intersection with lines of cars racing towards you at 50+ mph, or losing all power when you are just about done with your merge onto a busy highway with cars racing up behind you, or basically in almost any real world driving situation at all - well, to me that is a HUGE SAFETY ISSUE.

And if you doubt that fact, I assure you that when NHTSA forced Volvo to recalibrate the fuel delivery software in mine and every other American's 1999-2002 Volvo V70 wagons because they would uncontrollably and without warning stall out or fail to hold an idle and become undriveable - well, that was a safety issue. And the three times I had that happen in our Volvo while I was in the middle of a left turn across two lanes of 50 mph traffic trying desperately to get it across the road while it was in limp mode - well, I assure you that too was a safety issue.

So, I have to disagree and state that I fail to see how an imploding HPFP causing the TDI to suddenly and uncontrollably lose all its power isn't the exact same situation as the Volvo recall.

So I say please, please report these HPFP failures to NHTSA.
I can imagine the experience you had must have been scary, I am just trying to think outloud. Hopefully NHTSA will take this into account, but I see it as how can NHTSA investigate everysingle time something goes wrong on a car to place it in limp mode. I see the limp mode as a safty feature that proprly works, it still allows you to move before complete engine shut down. Agreed that a nice little engine warning light would be nice before limp mode, but I imagine limp mode is to prevent further engine damage as how many people have driven throuh a MIL light to go that extra two miles and caused more damage.

Hopefully NHTSA will be a means that VW will correct this issue, but I have my doubts.
 

jbright

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Location
Indianapolis
TDI
2009 Jetta DSG
From all the other threads I've read about HPFP failure, isn't there a strong suspicion that it's caused by a bad batch of pumps (there's a GI in Deutschland with an '09 he shipped over who, essentially, was told that by VW's home office), but, without an official recognition or admission of the problem, VW has skating room when the problem arises (it seems to be a dealer by dealer call as to whether they will fix it on warranty or blame the customer)? If this keeps happening, perhaps tipping off the ever voracious media would make VW see things a little differently. Good luck, house-1221, don't let them bully you into believing it's not a flaw in their product.
 
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Claudio

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Location
IL
TDI
09 Jetta SW
is the Jetta sold in Europe? If yes, are they using the same fuel pump? If yes, are they having the same problem over there?

If yes, it is the pump
If no, it is the fuel
 

Claudio

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Location
IL
TDI
09 Jetta SW
something interesting

from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbocharged_Direct_Injection
New ultra low-sulfur petroleum-only diesel recipes cause seals to shrink[9] and can cause fuel pump failures in TDI engines; biodiesel blends are reported to prevent that failure.[10]

  1. ^ "Technical bulletin: Fuel leaks from seals of vehicles using ultra low sulfur diesel" (PDF). Chevron. http://www.chevron.com/products/ourfuels/prodserv/fuels/documents/elastomer_chevron_tb_2005Aug.pdf. Retrieved 2008-01-28.
  2. ^ "Biodiesel Best Management Practices" (PDF). Virginia Clean Cities. June 2007. http://www.hrccc.org/images/Fuel_Quality_BMP_FINAL.pdf. Retrieved 2008-01-28.
 

TDI Believer

Responsible For Global Warming
Joined
Sep 20, 1999
Location
Charles Town,WV
TDI
2012 Touareg TDI
dweisel said:
Just looking back over some notes: 15 to 20 HPFP failures with about 1/2 of those being members here.

Dweisel
I'd be curious to see the build dates on these cars to see if they are closely grouped.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
It's been gone over and over, seems like there is no correlation, it started out at there were anywhere between 2-3 months but I think with the recent additions the gap has widdend.

BTW I like how 23 people are viewing this thread, 14 of them are non members, hmmmm.
 

jbright

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Location
Indianapolis
TDI
2009 Jetta DSG
Claudio said:
is the Jetta sold in Europe? If yes, are they using the same fuel pump? If yes, are they having the same problem over there?

If yes, it is the pump
If no, it is the fuel
We have many members from other continents. I'm sure somebody across the pond could answer that question. So, somebody in Europe, are you having problems with your high pressure fuel pumps failing?
 
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TDInownow

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
Location
West End, NC (27376)
TDI
None right now...
Fencemaker said:
And if you doubt that fact, I assure you that when NHTSA forced Volvo to recalibrate the fuel delivery software in mine and every other American's 1999-2002 Volvo V70 wagons because they would uncontrollably and without warning stall out or fail to hold an idle and become undriveable - well, that was a safety issue. And the three times I had that happen in our Volvo while I was in the middle of a left turn across two lanes of 50 mph traffic trying desperately to get it across the road while it was in limp mode - well, I assure you that too was a safety issue.
Yeah, but the SW fix was all that was really mandated from a proactive standpoint. I'm pretty sure that the actual hardware warranty extension on the ETM (10yr/200k), which was the only thing that circumvented any large cost, was only because of California class action lawsuit that tied it to emissions because the part could be in a state of "bad" for a while before failing, and that caused the car to run in a way which did not produce proper emissions performance. The NHSTA did NOT broker that recall.

Also, for those keeping score at home, the recall (and associated prior cost reimbursement) wasn't issued until 2006, which was 7 years after the manufacture of the initial affected vehicles.

We paid $1200 to get the ETM replaced less than 2k after the warranty expired. Two years later we got reimbursed. It was like Christmas! It was, however, really scary when the failure happened.
 
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