2005 TDI - loss of power, stalled, and won't start (noob)

Hello. I am at a loss with my problem. A bit of background on how the trouble started. Not sure if any of this is relevant to the actual problem. Please note that I live in cold climate and drive considerable (1000kms per week).

1. Check engine light on for about 7 months.

2. 3 weeks ago, air bag light comes on.

3. 1 week ago, wiper blades don't work, so I bring it in to a mechanic who raises the hood, gets to the thing that controls the arms and tightens it (no problem with the motor). Closes hood, and off I go. Stop the car, start the car and drive a bit. At a red light, I stall the car and it won't start... it turns over but does not start. So I bring it back to the mechanic. While waiting a friend checks the fuses (taking each out and putting back in). Then it start.... it is rough at first, then it starts. Not sure what that means.

4. Drive it for another week (600 kms). This morning, start the car drive it for 5 min, then loss of power while driving. It won't start.


What are the possible causes. Is it electrical. Could it be fuel/water related. (i.e. in #3 above when it was rough at first was that because of air in the fuel???).


I am at a loss. No VW dealer in my parts. Could this all be related to MAF (as I believe that this is why the check engine light might be on), or related to electrical.

Please help.

I have it towed to a mechanic's place (smart and honest fella and had a TDI in the past).

Thank you.

You can unplug the MAF. The problem will go away if the MAF is bad.

Can your mechanic scan the computer for fault codes? If so, please post the results here.

Where are you located? Perhaps there is another TDICLUB.COM member in your area who has a Vag-Com and can do a scan.

no start

When was fuel filter replaced? Are you sing Bio? Where is Timmins? Get the cel code read and report it here. Does your mechanic have a VagCom? Or is he just throwing parts at it. AutoZone and advanced auto as others will read cel code for free.

Man you guy are fast!!!!

First off, Timmins is in Northern Ontario, Canada. (Can it be condensation in the fuel????.... someone who drive school buses here suggested this as a possibility).

As far as disconnecting the Manifold, I'll have my mechanic consider this (in fact, I'll have him post on this site).

He does have a portable computer thingy. He stated that it was the Manifold for the engine light, BUT he cannot read the Air Bag light (not sure if that means he does not get codes... I assume so though). I will have him post the codes here. He has not charged me in the past to read them (i.e. engine light).

I believe I had the fuel filter at 160kms. Have to double check.

The first time the problem occured, was after the car sat overnight in the cold, then I brought it into a heated garage (mechanic) while he fixed the wiper blades... then I drove it a bit then then it died and would not start... The second time.... last night... the fuel light was on... oops... I added half a tank then it sat in the cold overnight... next morning... rough start... then drove it for 3 kms.... then lack of power... to no power... to no start.

What are your thoughts on this condensation possibility.

PF

probably needs a egr valve.you have a jetta right?

Nope. It is a 2005 golf -tdi. What is an egr valve?

Any thoughts about the cold temperature/waxing/gelling of the fuel. Could this be the cause.

My car is at the garage right now so I don't have access, but I'm thinking of getting an additive to mix with the fuel. Or am I just hoping.

pf

I hope this does not come out sounding wrong...

TDI engines need someone with a specialized knowledge to properly work on them. You can browse these forums and find numerous horror stories of very competent general mechanics, or even diesel truck mechanics, totally messing up a TDI. These are special engines requiring specialized knowledge to diagnose and repair.

You did the right thing by asking here first. The mechanic who now has the car may be qualified, or not - we cannot tell. Attempting to repair by replacing parts (MAF, EGR, etc) is a lose - lose situation. You get to pay for the parts, absorb the frustration and the car may actually be harmed by a lack of specific knowledge.

I don't know what resources you may have available in your area. Did you check the "trusted mechanics" sticky? You really need someone with the specialized experience to work on your car.

Well, therein lies the problem. The closest "qualified" mechanic from the sticky is 600kms away.... hmmm. Hence coming to the board for ideas/answers. I appreciate the recommendation/advice, but when you're in isolation (the nearest dealer is 300kms away) the internet brings you closer.

By the sounds of it, a TDI may not have been the best purchase after all. Don't take this the wrong way, but your post is scaring me more than the horror stories you refer to.

My plan, and hope, was to find answers and ideas to my problem. I am willing to purchase the Vag Com for the mechanic. The guy impresses as quite bright and deductive in his thinking, and a fast learner. I was hoping that this could be a resource for myself, and perhaps him, if required.

PF

Again though, any comments on my last post.

PM

Not trying to frighten... trying to help

Waxing is, of course, a possibility. Can you get a container of Powerservice 911 in the red bottle? That may help if you do have a fuel problem.

I would strongly suggest you buy a Vag-Com cable, the real one, as soon as possible. Don't fall into the el-cheapo eBay version trap. It's an invaluable tool for TDI maintenance. Especially considering how far you are from other resources. It's really what you need now to help us to help you.

Vag-Com: I've checked there website. Not sure what exactly I need from there products. Can you recommend.

The PS: Is it sold in WalMart and the like, or is it also specialized?

Thanks for ur help.

PF

pinkfreud55 said:

Vag-Com: I've checked there website. Not sure what exactly I need from there products. Can you recommend.

The PS: Is it sold in WalMart and the like, or is it also specialized?

Thanks for ur help.

PF

Click to expand...

This version of vag-com is what you need. It aint cheap. But you/your mechanic can learn more about the car's computer than you really want to, and even have a little fun with it.

PS...Walmart (at least in the states) carries White & grey bottles. In the winter, use the white bottle - anti gel, lubrication, and cetane boost. Grey bottle is lubrication and cetane boost only. Being in the northern climate, they may also have Diesel 911. Truck stops or big truck stores should carry Diesel 911 or something like it. Just make sure it does not have alcohol - tends to rot fuel lines, IIRC.

HTH

Tony

Anyone think maybe we have a relay 109 issue??? That may explain the stalling and not starting back up again for a bit. And what were the codes?

Thanks Tony. I will look for it (or similar product) today. What it the 109 relay issue???

Thanks again

Pf

Relay 109 is the main power relay. IT is known to have issues over time. In particular the earlier cars had bad, possibly under rated contacts.

Look up 'relay 109' on tdiparts.com...they're only ~$15.

Tony

Tony, it could be 109. I'm just trying to prevent them throwing a bunch of parts at the car and hoping one will work. He really needs to run a Vag-Com scan.

Lots of good suggestions here, but man this really sounds like classic gelling to me. Why not start with the simple stuff first? Put in a dose of the powerservice 911 (or similar, check at a truck stop if you have to...some sort of additive should be readily available for diesels in a cold climate like that), and get the car into a heated garage for a day or more. Maybe change the fuel filter as well. If the problem goes away you know it was fuel related.

I would think that any diesel sold in your area would be heavily winterized already, but you never know. I live in a much warmer climate, but I got a tankful of horrible fuel the other week. Car was hesitating on acceleration, smoking like mad at startup, and generally running rough. A large dose of fuel additive took care of things. Could have also had some water in your tank that made its way into the lines when you ran it so low.

Thanks for all your suggestions so far. I will keep you posted to see what is found. The mechanic believes he has a relay from his old car, and he suspects it is that. He had this go bad on his Beetle TDI.

Question: Can it be gelling/condensation of fuel even if it lost power while I was driving?? (Remember, saturday I added fuel into an emty tank, car sat overnight, then I drove 1-2 kms and it loss power while driving and then would not start).

On the Vag-Com. Is this just a cable that goes from the c ar comp. to a laptop??? Does it take codes for the airbag light as well as the check engine?

PF.

Something tells me that I will be visiting this site often.

Ah, ok...I missed the part about losing power while driving. In that case I would suspect a fuel filter obstruction or the relay.

Re: VagCOm....it is the cable that plugs into the car and your laptop. You buy the cable itself, and then download the software for free. Having the genuine cable unlocks all of the features in the software. You will get much more accurate readings of stored codes with the VagCom. You can also monitor hundreds of parameters in real-time as the car runs to troubleshoot problems. So you can both "read trouble codes" and "see what the car is seeing."

The Vag-Com cable is more than just wires from the OBD connector on your car to the computer. There is logic in the end of the cable (called a dongle) that provides the licensing status to the software, thus permitting full access to all functions. The knock-off cables do not have this logic nor capability so can run only very old software and have limited use.

The Vag-Com will provide the data for your airbag light also.

Okay. So maybe the relay, or the fuel filter (and not the fuel because it happened while driving).

Question: As mentionned earlier, I have the airbag light lit, and I am wondering if this light is lit up for the relay, or would that be the 'check engine light'?

BTW: I am in the process of ordering the cable. Should be here in 2 days. So if there's anyone in Timmins with a heated garage, and sound VW exprience, we could barter....lol...I highly doubt this but who knows.

BTW2: Timmins is a gold mining town 8 hours north of Toronto, and home of Shania Twain, and many NHL stars. It is also the largest (or maybe 2-3rd, city in the world (area wise)). Great hunting and fishing too. Some time ago there was a VW dealer and none since, but lot of VWs kicking around.

PF

when you key on, can you hear the lift pump under the back seat for a second?

As far as the lift pump, I don't think I've ever hear it. I will check tonight.

BTW: Why?

PF

The lift pump in the fuel tank is the only way fuel gets delivered to the engine. On prior versions (non-pd) of these cars, they use suction from the IP to draw fuel from the tank. The PD injectors don't make enoguh cavuum to draw fuel from the tank, hence the lift pump.

Tony

Following up here. Okay, as you know, no dealer and no way to read codes (yet). Car's fixed (or at least it starts now). The reason, hmmm, possibly gelled fuel, so the mechanic thinks.

He checked the wiring (including relay) and states all was good. He changed the fuel filter and added additive to the tank. It runs now.

So, if it is indeed fixed (i.e. problem doesn't come and go... (I say this because the first time this occured, it later started)... it was likely fuel gelling on both occassions.

Where can I get PS in Ontario, Canada.

I'll do a search, but any feedback is appreciated.

I will be buying the vagcom for sure. So anyone in timmins, or area let me know.

I am glad I found this site. thanx for your help.

PF

PS: I drove a grand prix rental... hated it. The vw allows you to feel road.

Happy to hear it is running again!

Was the garage heated? Maybe that was enough to 'un-gel' the fuel - just a guess.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=198229
There's a Vag-Com for sale in the For Sale forum:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=198229

Not mine - just spreading the word.

http://powerservice.com/retail/default.asp they only list the US. You may need to contact them.

Try local truck stops.

HTH

Tony

WalMart and or Canadian tire carry PS white.

Yes it was a heated garage.... I thought the same. As for the vagcom, I can get it in Canada shipped (brand new)... check the ross tech site for canadian distributors.

I will check walmart here for PS white. Thanks again guys. I am thinking about getting that pan heater that I saw, and the skid guard (on my previous Jetta I blew a hole in the oil pan following a transport truck that let go a chunk of ice... not fun).

PF

You are better off with a http://frostheater.com/ They heat the egnine's cooling water, providing easier start, faster warm up, and heat in the cabin! I have a block heater on my dodge truck; after 2hrs (on a timer) in the am, at 30-40F, water temp is at ~110F! I've heard on TDI's it can be close to operating temp. Not sure about that though...I'll find out here in a few weeks, when I get mine instaleed on my B4.

You have to be really careful with the oil pan heaters; some have been known to delaminate from the oil pan and start fires.

The skid plate is cheap compared to a new motor! I just have to convinve my wire of that...and the fact of spending money!

HTH

Tony