code P0811 -- clutch slippage excessive (03 jetta automatic) -- what are my options?

jhogan

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Location
near youngstown, oh-- halfway between cleveland an
TDI
2003 jetta tdi wagon
What else can go wrong with my wonderful 03 jetta tdi wagon (198,000 miles)? ((just replaced water pump, TB, brakes, tires, thermostat, cooling fan regulator))

It appears my automatic transmission is on it's way out.

I've been noticing what feels like "slippage" especially going up hills at lower speeds and on on-ramps.

Now my CEL is on and the code is P0811 (clutch slippage excessive).

I found 3 other posts on this topic, but no definite resolutions to the problem.

1) if i drive it till it literally dies on the side of the road, can i hurt anything besides the dying transmission?

2) anything i can do to slow transmission death or is it too late? any idea how much longer till it'll completely die on me?

3) what should i replace transmission with? I've seen some posts about converting to manual. Not ideal for me, but I'd do it if there was a huge cost difference.
 

burpod

teh stallionz!!1
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Location
cape cod, ma
TDI
82 rabbit vnt ahu, 98 jetta vnt ahu, 05 parts car, 88 scirocco.. :/
won't do a thing...

i'm sorry, but changing the fluid won't do squat :(
 

JASONP

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Location
Guelph
TDI
2015 Golf TDI Comfortline 6spd
jhogan said:
do you think it's too late for that? i don't want to waste more time/money if i'm going to have to convert to a manual or something real soon.
Total cost $150

New tranny from dealer $5200

you choice
 

jhogan

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Location
near youngstown, oh-- halfway between cleveland an
TDI
2003 jetta tdi wagon
JASONP said:
Total cost $150

New tranny from dealer $5200

you choice
yeah, good point. i'll try the fluid change and see what happens. i think i'd convert to manual transmission if/when i need a new tranny, or i might junk the thing. car's definitely not worth putting $5,000 into it. i'd rather start from scratch.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Geez, what on earth did you do to a baby like a 2003 Jetta that you feel it is not worth putting a transmission in???? :confused:
 

02DslPwr

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2004
Location
Leander Texas
TDI
2002 Jetta Wagon, TDI
My auto is going out too. Reverse is totally gone. I had fluid and filter and since a 5 speed conversion wouldnt ever use this filter and fluid, I figured I'd try it. Well, it didnt really do anything that I noticed. It goes forward a bit smoother, but it still doesnt go backwards.

I've been speaking with Ben, aka Alphasenior, who luckily for me is in Dallas, and my bill is going to be about $5K. But that gets me Stage IV clutch, Peloquin LSD, VR6 axels, and a DG shifter (tranny etc too of course). Or, I can spend the same and get another crappy 01M.

The conversion can be done for about $3500, but the clutch and LSD put me over 5K.

Ben said the conversion takes a very full day, ~16 hours.

Just letting you know that it can be done for less than 5K.

Oh, and I got 147,000 miles out of my 01M.
 
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Tee Dee Eye

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2007
Location
Ottawa area
TDI
05 jetta 01 golf
+1 a slipping 01m auto is a terminal condition, My experience was fluid, filter and line pressure mod got my a couple 1000k until symptoms returned and transmission required a transplant from a doner 5 speed. Fluid, filter and a tweak on the line pressure might buy you a little time toget parts together for a swap or another paycheck in the bank to help offset the cost to replace the auto..

All parts in with used manual transmission, new clutch and flywheel and the swap is less than half the price of a remanufactured auto tranny. Cost me about $1950 taxes and fluid changes, rear main engine seal included. About a 3 day weekend job first time round including ods and ends like cleaning the intake, fixing exhaust leak, Think I could do it in a weekend if had all the parts together and did not mess with other issues, I'd bet some of the gurues here could get it done in a long day.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=151516&highlight=kill+the+auto
 
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jhogan

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Location
near youngstown, oh-- halfway between cleveland an
TDI
2003 jetta tdi wagon
oilhammer said:
Geez, what on earth did you do to a baby like a 2003 Jetta that you feel it is not worth putting a transmission in???? :confused:
doesn't make sense to me to put another $5,000 into a car that's paid off w/200,000 miles on it. that's 1/4 the price of a realtively new one.


I talked to bob scofield in warren, oh, today, who i was referred to by someone on this forum. He basically said I'm playing Russian roulette if i mess around with my transmission fluid now that the car has so many miles and the fluid's never been changed. He said he can change the fluid and we can see what happens, but it could dislodge "gunk" and mess up the tranny even more. It'll be close to $300 to service it if i want to try. He said he's never flushed a tranny for the first time with so many miles or when the tranny is already producing symptoms of failure, so he said it's up to me if i want to try my luck with the flush. any suggestions?

I also chatted briefly with him about swapping out the automatic for a manual, and he more or less ruled that out. i'm surprised he doesn't do that if he's been working on VWs for so long, but it looks like i'll have to look to a guru on here if i want to swap to a manual tranny.

at least i know that following VW's suggested maintenance is useless. they want you to have to replace the tranny ever hundred thousand miles.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Hmmm....I put new 01Ms in those all the time. $4700 is sure cheaper than a new car (last I checked). If the car is otherwise in good shape, and you said it is paid for (the best kind of car, IMHO), then I do not see why not...but 200k miles is hardly used up in my book. Heck, mine is over TWICE that :p
 

jhogan

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Location
near youngstown, oh-- halfway between cleveland an
TDI
2003 jetta tdi wagon
oilhammer said:
Hmmm....I put new 01Ms in those all the time. $4700 is sure cheaper than a new car (last I checked). If the car is otherwise in good shape, and you said it is paid for (the best kind of car, IMHO), then I do not see why not...but 200k miles is hardly used up in my book. Heck, mine is over TWICE that :p
i just did the TB/water pump again and new brakes, so i haven't ruled out replacing the tranny. just seems kinda crazy how expensive it is.

do the new 01Ms fail like the tranny I have now? (if i replace it now, will i likely be replacing it again once i hit 300,000 or 350,000 miles)? i guess at least now i know of a reputable VW mechanic and I know to change the ATF.

Do you have an opinion about changing the ATF now? think it'll mess the tranny up even more?

what will happen when the tranny dies? will it just get stuck in a gear and leave me stranded in a parking lot or on the side of the road. ideally i'd like to get another 6 months out of this tranny, but i'm betting that won't happen.
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
Don't waste your time and money changing the fluid and filter. It isn't going to make the situation any better, and it certainly isn't going to make the transmission last long enough to justify the cost of the fluid and filter change.

I'd look around for a 5-speed conversion for it if the rest of the car is in good shape. 200,000 miles is not that much, especially considering that you just did the timing belt, water pump, and brakes.

Rough times... do what makes economic sense (stay with the car that's paid for).
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
As for the method of failure, some people have lost reverse, some people have lost all gears, some people have transmissions that slip so bad that they're virtually impossible to drive.

Start formulating your plan now, and be ready for when your 01M finally gives up the ghost. In the meantime, don't go too far from home. ;)
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
jhogan said:
i just did the TB/water pump again and new brakes, so i haven't ruled out replacing the tranny. just seems kinda crazy how expensive it is.

do the new 01Ms fail like the tranny I have now? (if i replace it now, will i likely be replacing it again once i hit 300,000 or 350,000 miles)? i guess at least now i know of a reputable VW mechanic and I know to change the ATF.

Do you have an opinion about changing the ATF now? think it'll mess the tranny up even more?

what will happen when the tranny dies? will it just get stuck in a gear and leave me stranded in a parking lot or on the side of the road. ideally i'd like to get another 6 months out of this tranny, but i'm betting that won't happen.
Honestly I agree the price is high, I have no idea why nor do I have any control over that. The B5's larger, heavier, more complex ZF 5 speed autobox is even cheaper than the 01M.:eek:

As far as what will happen, well it is tough to say. All autoboxes have the ability to suddenly die, but it sounds like yours is in the first stages of the typical 01M fail mode...it may go a while longer (15k miles) or it may not even make it that long.

Changing the ATF at this point is a waste of time, IMHO. You can drop the pan if you wanna see schrapnel chunks and silvery mess.... just to confirm how bad it probably is.

The reman unit will be as good as yours was when new. Since you made it 40k miles MORE than the average* 01M, consider yourself lucky :p . Before that car was even off the truck, I could have told you to start saving up for a replacement transmission. Remember, these things were not that great WAY back in '96, and you cannot polish a turd.

*160k mile lifespan is the average I had figured up a couple years ago based on the last 10 that I had seen fail at that point. Now I must point out that there are far more gas-powered Volkswagens in this country than diesel that use the 01M, and if you really wanted to figure it out, I would bet the average 01M+diesel lifespan is a bit higher. Not that I think the TDI is any easier on the transmission around town, but more the fact that most people who purchased a TDI drove more than the gasser counterpart, and often that driving was at highway speed. Driving on the highway, at 4th gear and locked up, is always going to be easier on the transmission. Couple that with the fact that the TDI does not need the transmission to downshift nor unlock under almost all those highway conditions, it is easy to see why the 01M would in fact have an easier life bolted to the TDI.

I know there are plenty of people with 01Ms that are happy and healthy at higher mileages, but the ratio of failure to success is still not at all in favor of the 01M winning any durability awards. And again, I see gas AND diesel cars, many older than when any TDIs were even available with an autobox. The 01M was 5 chapters into its story of craptasticness before we saw one bolted to a TDI in the '98 NB. And to think I even asked the VW rep if they 'improved' them for the diesels...and he looked me square in the eye and said "Nope, they are the same" as we both smiled at the pile of dead 01Ms in the corner of the dealer :rolleyes: .
 

JASONP

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 24, 2008
Location
Guelph
TDI
2015 Golf TDI Comfortline 6spd
oilhammer said:
Hmmm....I put new 01Ms in those all the time. $4700 is sure cheaper than a new car (last I checked). If the car is otherwise in good shape, and you said it is paid for (the best kind of car, IMHO), then I do not see why not...but 200k miles is hardly used up in my book. Heck, mine is over TWICE that :p
Nuff said Oilhammer,had mine done at 197,000 and when ti goes again it'll be 5 speed for me
 
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