2.0 CR big turbo build, aiming to set WR

Macradiators.com

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Nov 2, 2015
Location
Romania
TDI
2.0 CR 360hp
Actually some cars are the fastest , show me another 11.5s street legal diesel car.
I guess you will have no answer to this one.
For example Completechip dyno is accurate, and his cars are really fast (11.5, 11.8, 11.9 /402m) Unfortunately he wasnt my tuner.
Mine was obviously a failure ..**** happens. New start from 0!

Other than stirring up sh!t, have anything nice to share with us? :D
 
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Lucian189

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Location
Romania
TDI
3.0 TDI CR
Everytime I look into this topic I see people attacking eachother and so on..
Why dont you build your car and call it a day.

I told you abaut the tuner you used .
Now let.it go ..there are others more then capable for the job.
 

raffshore

Well-known member
Joined
May 29, 2006
Apparently some are , and some are far from the true.
Raffshore since you came here to stab a man down, let me tell you that superflow dynos are a little optimistic too, 8-10% at least.
Im sure Ruben did a good job on your car as he seems capable and surely knows what he's talking about.
I was wrong to question him and probably i was a little bit of an *******, i apologize for that. I made peace with him, and probably he with me.


We have the famous JD making 450hp on stock everything on the 3.0 bitdi which is not possible (it is on superflow)


My results for the moment are ****, not afraid to admit that. I came to understand many things lately.
There are some really shady people in this tuning business and dio performance is one of them.

What i can say is that i have a strong well built engine, a working CP3 with no rail drop @5200rpm
Finturbo is preparing a nice special turbo and for the 1st time we have a correctly working setup.

@Jamie: I have a 3km long desert road which i use for testing, traffic is close to 0, so no real danger in going 200km/h, and the best part : ITS FLAT
Hey man, not stabing anybody, just foolin around a bit, and it's nice to see you can say something nice about us :)
 

mrchill

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96 B4v red \ 98 Mk3 green\98 Mk3 Jetta black\ 99 Mk4 Jetta green x2\ 99 Mk4 Golf silver x2\ 99 Mk4 Jetta black\ 97 B4 sedan green\04 JSW gold\03 JSW silver
Fortuitously, Mac is here documenting successes and failures alike. And not playing the "I am the best around" game that so many come to the club to play. This is an interesting period in time, as finally people are actually doing their own work and research...where before, very few were. As a result, we are all able to see the time and resources necessary to build power in these particular engines. There would be much more success if not for the infighting...but that I suspect is human nature. I have watched the general consensus go from "we need more air to make power" to " we dont have enough rail pressure" to "we cant seem to get enough fuel" and so on. Its curious that in the 10 years these engines have been available that we have made so little progress. Most of it in the last 24 months. I think if we were more helpful to each other(and that does not mean divulging ones work), we would have gone much further by now. Hopefully, that will begin to happen...because it would be nice to see more successes and more friendly competition.
 

Macradiators.com

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Joined
Nov 2, 2015
Location
Romania
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2.0 CR 360hp
All i can say there will be at least just another similar build and since the issues are solved we hope to see real gains.
 
Joined
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Location
Romania
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A5
Unfortunately for all of us in this tuning "industry", I think the dyno measurements are a real issue.

I fight this issue every day, think about it everyday, sometimes can't sleep at night because of this, and why?...because the only chance to prove that I am right and almost all the others lie, at least here, in Romania, are 5-6 drag events during an entire year, on some poor quality abandoned airports strips, when we have each time to travel on wheels some 4-600km and back to reach these events.

And what happens here? Timing cells "beat" dyno plots..."weaker-on-dyno" cars beat "dyno queens"...

I am the only one in RO to own/use 2 different dyno's, a 2WD Dynojet(US) and a 4WD Softengine(IT). All my cars have lower dyno plots than more than 90% of the oponent companies. Even my high powered cars have lower dyno plots than most of the others that use same configurations. Still, "my" cars run better ET's with lower resources. Final result? We are often accused of hiding/using NOS, often accused of showing lower dyno plots than in reality, etc., where in fact the results are 100% plausible with reality.

A7 313hp stock , actual spec 430hp natural/465hp with WMI - 11.82sec/402m

A7 313hp stock, actual spec 435hp natural/475hp with WMI - 11.91sec/402m (car does not have active differential, thus bad 60ft)

A5 239hp stock, actual spec 440hp natural/470hp with WMI - 11.81sec/402m

E46 204hp stock, actual spec 430hp natural/550 with NOS - 11.58sec/402m

F30 335xd 313hp stock, actual spec 435hp natural/490hp with WMI - 11.51sec/402m

Low power figures versus good ET's for 100% street legal cars (except E46 which is PRO )...

This I guess happens everywhere. I learned to live with it, carry on with it and ignore it. It was, it is, it will be. Dyno queens versus reality, the timing cells will always win.

Regards,
Dragos.
 

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
Fortuitously, Mac is here documenting successes and failures alike. And not playing the "I am the best around" game that so many come to the club to play. This is an interesting period in time, as finally people are actually doing their own work and research...where before, very few were. As a result, we are all able to see the time and resources necessary to build power in these particular engines. There would be much more success if not for the infighting...but that I suspect is human nature. I have watched the general consensus go from "we need more air to make power" to " we dont have enough rail pressure" to "we cant seem to get enough fuel" and so on. Its curious that in the 10 years these engines have been available that we have made so little progress. Most of it in the last 24 months. I think if we were more helpful to each other(and that does not mean divulging ones work), we would have gone much further by now. Hopefully, that will begin to happen...because it would be nice to see more successes and more friendly competition.

The issue I have is the BS.

EG claiming nearly 300hp on stock CR engine. It simply WILL NOT do it.
Then Mac posts like this:


I dont have doubts about the dyno results. Nice figure!
Here in romania there was a scandal 1 month ago about dyno numbers..very disappointed in how it turned out. Now dyno was recalibrated and shows realistic numbers.
430hp measured gave 387 on another dyno ..that says a lot ..

Data is shared, but not believed. Even by you.

So we stop sharing data.. As our findings are not respected / believed.


As Dragos says in some respects is true.
Dynos are not 100% accurate . but a good tool to measure performance gains. Especially if you run 200Hp and then change some parts and run 240Hp on the same dyno again then you have gained roughly 40Hp...no magical trickery. It may be 37 or 43 hp actual gain, but as a rough figure it's good to know.

Dyno figures are not everything. Then again neither are 1/4 mile times.
Terminal speeds are a better indication of a cars power , or measured acceleration times between two speeds. Eg 100-200kph on GPS or using VCDS logs on flat roads.

as many cars especially FWD are traction limited. Where as no matter how bad the start you are usually within 1 or 2 MPH each run at the top end.

And for example tuner A car runs 12.3 1/4 mile
Tuner B runs 12.1 1/4 mile.

Every one thinks Tuner B is better? But what you don't tell from the times is that tuner A is nearly smoke free with good protection limiters for egt and injection parameters .
Where as tune B is very smokey, with egt over 950c and crazy injection windows.


I'm happy with our dyno as independent, one of the most accurate in the country, and also I have used it on my other car and it's accurate to within a few BHP.


http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=5266914&postcount=27

Even on that thread people were questioning the dyno. What is there to gain by lying?

I like friendly competition within tuning industries . It drives new technology.
For example Darkside Arosa is great piece of work to find the limits of the engine.


Macs project is promising as long as he finds a good tuner.
I'm sure he will.
 

Macradiators.com

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Location
Romania
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2.0 CR 360hp
As you probably can imagine, dyno was surelly optimistic by a long shot. If you make a spike of 300 because you inject 105mg and some boost for limited time, doesnt mean car goes fast.
But apart from that, the main issue was that the car was not fast, indeed it was very slow compared to others declaring 100hp less..imagine that.
I've always had my doubts, and then 1 day i decided to measure how slow it goes.
Abracadabra ..car was dead slow. Dio performance became ADIO performance.
END OF STORY!

From now on let's watch towards the future. I have some high goals in mind, like always.
I wont be writing on this thread till i have news, good or bad.
 

CNGVW

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Bob Mann Auto, 111 High St, Pembroke MA 02359
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Many TDI Jettas and a Beetle Race car run 2010 jetta tdi cup car build roadrace
I will step in on this as the only real TDI powered roadracer in the USA Lemon/Chump.
Real racing

https://youtu.be/1MnV4tSYnoI

I see a lot of my dyno sheet is bigger then your! My tool box is bigger then yours! My pen** is bigger then yours! If you are fast then please shows us vid ,real time slips will work just fine . We get it done with 200HP and 350+ LB can pull over a G in most turns
We take on and beat most BMW,Porsche and big V8 cars
 

flee

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Location
Chatsworth, CA
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2002 Jetta GLS wagon
Ha, that looks like the 405 every workday!
It must be huge fun, though.
I think Ford must have a factory team: Pinto, Mustang, Crown Vic; was that a Fiesta, too?
Great video, Bob!
 

turbobrick240

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maine
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2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
That does look like a lot of fun. How often do you see miatas sharing the track with stake bed pickups? :)
 

CNGVW

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Many TDI Jettas and a Beetle Race car run 2010 jetta tdi cup car build roadrace
It is real racing for shore in the last race NH it took 2 bad hits sad to say the beetle is being parted out to build a new car 2000 Audi AWD TT 1.8T to start at some point in the year we will install a CR2 TDI and a DSG
 
Joined
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And for example tuner A car runs 12.3 1/4 mile
Tuner B runs 12.1 1/4 mile.
Every one thinks Tuner B is better? But what you don't tell from the times is that tuner A is nearly smoke free with good protection limiters for egt and injection parameters .
Where as tune B is very smokey, with egt over 950c and crazy injection windows.
Less than 1% of the public live/virtually watching these races have any kind of clue about what is going on there. They do not know the background facts, they do not know that some cars were tuned to moderate setups as they are daily cars, and still beat drag extreme tuned similar cars, they do not know that some of these cars are almost stock and still beat overmodified similar cars, etc.

Yes, for 99% of them, tuner B is better than tuner A, just judging by the times. Nothing else matters, as Metallica would sing.

Unfortunately this 99% also covers all the potential customers, all the people that make FB ratings, etc, and still their automotive culture is a mess. These are the ones that judge me and the rest.

My case was a happy one this year, at the end of the race season, I managed to keep my records on the top of the list, even if we are talking about almost stock cars. But what if I had been defeated? The 99% I was reffering to above, would have turned away their attention to the new winner, not taking into consideration the lack of resources I had and the performance I still managed to develop, despite all the difficulties.

This is it, we are living in a strange world, I assume it's the same everywhere, and in this strange world, I have less and less expectations that people will judge facts not by their pure aspect, but also taking into consideration the "background" for each situation.
 

vtpsd

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03 jsw TDI, audi 90 AHU swap
Less than 1% of the public live/virtually watching these races have any kind of clue about what is going on there. They do not know the background facts, they do not know that some cars were tuned to moderate setups as they are daily cars, and still beat drag extreme tuned similar cars, they do not know that some of these cars are almost stock and still beat overmodified similar cars, etc.

Yes, for 99% of them, tuner B is better than tuner A, just judging by the times. Nothing else matters, as Metallica would sing.

Unfortunately this 99% also covers all the potential customers, all the people that make FB ratings, etc, and still their automotive culture is a mess. These are the ones that judge me and the rest.

My case was a happy one this year, at the end of the race season, I managed to keep my records on the top of the list, even if we are talking about almost stock cars. But what if I had been defeated? The 99% I was reffering to above, would have turned away their attention to the new winner, not taking into consideration the lack of resources I had and the performance I still managed to develop, despite all the difficulties.

This is it, we are living in a strange world, I assume it's the same everywhere, and in this strange world, I have less and less expectations that people will judge facts not by their pure aspect, but also taking into consideration the "background" for each situation.
It is a strange world, and what you say rings true for my assessment of the world too.
 

keaton

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can you update the thread & post an load the photos on here? since photobucket changed their 3rd party hosting rules all the threads have dead photo links.
 

eddie_1

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Macradiators.com

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Romania
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2.0 CR 360hp
I did a few runs today ..just like yesterday and the day before that.
I think we are at a good point with almost stable rail pressure till 5k, 2.6-2.7 boost and some decent IQ.
Car seems fast and traction is an issue :(
 
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Macradiators.com

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Romania
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2.0 CR 360hp
This is where i am now, 290-300hp probably
. Car runs ok but due to egt limiter 930deg power is cut 2 times, you can here it in video, for 1-1.5 seconds i can feel the car not accelerating.
Waiting for new turbo to push it further. I think its time for a day on dyno to test some stuff and close this project with some big numbers.
After this is done, it's time for a 3.0 450hp project.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-l3TXZZTlA
 
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Macradiators.com

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Romania
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2.0 CR 360hp
Gtb2265vk with bmw 4650mm tw :) This is as far as i want to go with this one. Waiting for new unit from Finturbo to go further.
 

Macradiators.com

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2.0 CR 360hp
880 deg for 340hp at 4700rpm sounds a little hard to believe with a turbo smaller than mine
For now i stopped testing. There is no point going further with this one.
 

Macradiators.com

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2.0 CR 360hp
I measured them right, didn't i?

Still have to see one cyl head with equal pockets. Not saying there isn't one, but people i know measured have it identical to the 3 heads i have here.
Anyway if something good happens i'll post it here.
 

mrchill

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MASS! home of THE WORLD SERIES CHAMPION RED SOX! x
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the pockets are in fact uneven. Mac measured correctly. Tried six different heads....
 
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