HID headlights

Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Location
usa
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2012 passat tdi 2004 golf tdi
I've read a lot of people on here say they won't get a passat because it doesn't have HID lights. I've never had a car with them so I have no reference, but can it be that big of a deal to pass up on a great car because of lights? Mine seems to be just fine with normal halogen bulbs.
 

JackMars

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Feb 10, 2012
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Mississauga, Canada
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2015 Touareg TDi Highline R type
Buy the car and install PIAA Extreme White bulbs. Set of two H7 will cost $60 x 2 for low and hi beams. It takes 5 minutes. If you have fog lights than you will need extra pair of H7. Also if you want something cheeper with 1 year warranty go with Sylvania Utras. For those that need the cool look of HID they can go on line to order from Japan or China as VW in asia comes with factory HID installed.
 
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
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usa
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2012 passat tdi 2004 golf tdi
Yeah it wasn't any kind of issue to me to not buy the car but some of the posts on the forums people just won't buy the car because of it and I was just wondering what the big deal was cuz I've never had them before and my regular old halogens seem just fine to me.
 

Mmhs19

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Dec 26, 2011
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Milwaukee, WI
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2013 Passat TDI SEL, 2012 Passat TDI SEL (sold)
I agree, I don't see HIDs as a deal breaker. That said, if there's an economical upgrade that is reliable with a reasonable lifespan, I'd make the upgrade.
 

Niner

duplicate account, banned
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Jun 3, 2011
I wouldn't mind getting some of those PIAA extreme white lights for my DRL's, if they made them. Is it doable? Part number and what kind of light base, I wonder? Even some cool white LED's would be cool, if it fit in there.
 

Joe_Meehan

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NB TDI, 2002.5, Silver
I've read a lot of people on here say they won't get a passat because it doesn't have HID lights. I've never had a car with them so I have no reference, but can it be that big of a deal to pass up on a great car because of lights? Mine seems to be just fine with normal halogen bulbs.
HID is not better. It is different. What is best for you depends a lot on what you want. Do you like that blueish color that most of them make, OK but don't assume that blue is better. It is different and it may be better for some, but not for me.

I will suggest that the best lamp is the one that allows the drive the best vision (the ability to see where they are going and to spot possible problems). "Blue" light does not = "better" light. The bluish HID lamp may provide better light than what you have now or it may not.

HID is the name of the technology that is producing the light. Light is made up of a wide range of "colors". HID's tend to produce a lot of their light in the blush end of the spectrum. Our eyes are sensitive to a wider range of colors. So with HID's we may be missing some colors that might help us see better.

Your eyes and mine are not the same. I really hate that blue light. Just like I hate that orange "sodium" lamps on the freeway. They both are only illuminating a "slice" of what is out there. The rest is missing.

In my opinion the best light I have ever had on a car was 7" round E-codes on my Miata. one reason they were the best was because they were Pop-up lights that were located (when turned on) very close to my line of sight and produced almost no shadows. They were bad for fog, but I had fog lamps for that.

Light is a lot more complex than most people think.

Maybe I had too many physics classes in college.
 

germ

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Bend Or.
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2012 Passat tdi 6sp man
What is wrong with after market HIDS? Thats a solution if your hang up is HID lights.
 

VeeDubTDI

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Aftermarket HIDs generally suck, especially with poor quality Chinesium retrofits dominating the market.

The stock halogen lights on the Passat seem to do a very good job. If you want to upgrade to HIDs, do it right and buy a real set that comes on the Asian VWs.
 
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
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usa
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2012 passat tdi 2004 golf tdi
Like I said before I don't see any issue with my stock halogens. Don't c why people so caught up in the whole it's a crap car cuz of no HID's.
 

MyAvocation

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2017 Passat SEL TSI
I agree and can think of 1000 better ways to spend that much $cratch on my family. Not knocking the HID fanboys, just don't believe in throwing discretionary dollars at the fastest depreciating asset in the household.
 

VeeDubTDI

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I appreciate a set of good HID headlights. My dad's Lexus RX400h has amazing HIDs that auto-level and turn when you turn. Very nice. That said, HIDs certainly aren't a deal-breaker for me when it comes to buying a car.
 
Joined
Feb 28, 2012
Location
usa
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2012 passat tdi 2004 golf tdi
I appreciate a set of good HID headlights. My dad's Lexus RX400h has amazing HIDs that auto-level and turn when you turn. Very nice. That said, HIDs certainly aren't a deal-breaker for me when it comes to buying a car.
I feel the same way but like I said before I've never had a vehicle that had them and didn't know what all the fuss is about.
 
Joined
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usa
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2012 passat tdi 2004 golf tdi
I agree and can think of 1000 better ways to spend that much $cratch on my family. Not knocking the HID fanboys, just don't believe in throwing discretionary dollars at the fastest depreciating asset in the household.
Ah a voice of reason. I agree whole heartedly.
 

JaredC01

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Location
St. Louis, MO
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2015 Passat SE - 6MT
HID is not better. It is different. What is best for you depends a lot on what you want. Do you like that blueish color that most of them make, OK but don't assume that blue is better. It is different and it may be better for some, but not for me.
I will suggest that the best lamp is the one that allows the drive the best vision (the ability to see where they are going and to spot possible problems). "Blue" light does not = "better" light. The bluish HID lamp may provide better light than what you have now or it may not.
HID is the name of the technology that is producing the light. Light is made up of a wide range of "colors". HID's tend to produce a lot of their light in the blush end of the spectrum. Our eyes are sensitive to a wider range of colors. So with HID's we may be missing some colors that might help us see better.
Your eyes and mine are not the same. I really hate that blue light. Just like I hate that orange "sodium" lamps on the freeway. They both are only illuminating a "slice" of what is out there. The rest is missing.
In my opinion the best light I have ever had on a car was 7" round E-codes on my Miata. one reason they were the best was because they were Pop-up lights that were located (when turned on) very close to my line of sight and produced almost no shadows. They were bad for fog, but I had fog lamps for that.
Light is a lot more complex than most people think.
Maybe I had too many physics classes in college.
Actually, it IS better as far as light output goes... A Philips 85122+ D2S bulb has a lumen output rating of ~3100. A typical 55w Halogen bulb (by US DOT standards) has a lumen output of ~1500. You get twice the light output from the OEM HID bulb.

The reason the bulbs can have twice the light output while being safe for use on the road, is due in large part to projector lenses. With proper HID projector lenses, it's possible to get maximum forward light output without completely blinding other drivers on the road (due to the sharp cutoff of the HID projector lens). A standard halogen reflector bowl headlight will throw light above the cutoff line (though they are much better than they used to be).

Proper OEM HID bulbs are typically 4150K in temperature, making them "daylight" white. The light they produce is equivalent to noon-day sun on the road... Blue HIDs (betwen 8000K and 10000K) are aftermarket only, and are not only more fatiguing on the eyes, but produce less light than 55w halogen bulbs.

As far as the technology goes, it's been around for decades. HID (short for High Intensity Discharge) bulbs are a gas-arc type bulb that require a ballast and ignitor to ignite metal salts in a sealed-gas environment... Basically it's similar to how Neon, Fluorescent, Mercury-vapor, and similar lights work, and it's also quite easy to get any color in the spectrum in a HID bulb (in an aftermarket application), so it's not limited to "blue".
 

VeeDubTDI

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"daylight" is actually 5,000K :)

Nice TSX retrofits, by the way. :cool:
 

JaredC01

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2015 Passat SE - 6MT
"daylight" is actually 5,000K :)
Nice TSX retrofits, by the way. :cool:
"pure" white is 5000K... "daylight" white is 4150K. There is a measurable amount of yellow light in 4150K bulbs, which directly mimics the light the sun puts out on a sunny day. In 5000K bulbs (OEM on some newer cars), there's not any color hue to the light at all (it's just white).

Thanks on the retro's. :cool:
 

JaredC01

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2015 Passat SE - 6MT
Depends on what website you look at, you'll get different answers at each. There's too much conflicting data on the wiki article you posted alone:

"Color temperatures over 5,000K are called cool colors (blueish white), while lower color temperatures (2,700–3,000 K) are called warm colors (yellowish white through red)."

"4,100–4,150 K Moonlight,[2] xenon arc lamp" --> "A xenon arc lamp is a specialized type of gas discharge lamp, an electric light that produces light by passing electricity through ionized xenon gas at high pressure to produce a bright white light that closely mimics natural sunlight."

Then you have this...

"Many other light sources, such as fluorescent lamps, emit light primarily by processes other than thermal radiation. This means the emitted radiation does not follow the form of a black-body spectrum. These sources are assigned what is known as a correlated color temperature (CCT). CCT is the color temperature of a black body radiator which to human color perception most closely matches the light from the lamp. Because such an approximation is not required for incandescent light, the CCT for an incandescent light is simply its unadjusted temperature, derived from the comparison to a black body radiator."

HID bulbs follow the same rules as fluorescent bulbs (as they are gas-arc type bulbs and not incandescent) meaning they don't follow the typical light scale, including the ones you linked.
 

VeeDubTDI

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Long and the short of it, you can't judge a lamp solely by its color temperature. Color temperature doesn't accurately describe a lamp's total spectrum.

With that said, I've found that 4300K HIDs are the best for night time visibility.

Curious to know your background, as you are very well versed in the subject. Myself, I'm a theatrical lighting designer, production manager for a large venue, jack of all trades - master of none.
 

JaredC01

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Correct... Basically, gas-arc type bulbs don't follow the 'standard' color scale... A 4150K gas-arc bulb on the CCT scale, will have the same PERCEIVED color as an incandescent bulb with a 5000K~5500K output.

It's incredibly confusing, and there are too many different charts floating around.
 

PB_NB

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1999 New Beetle
I can't imagine that headlights would be the basis for buying a car. There are so many aftermarket options for our cars that can be installed very easily.

I have HID's in the New Beetle with the factory projectors at 6000K temp and they are amazing compared to stock H7's and just a slight blue tint.

I have 8000K temp HID's in the Vanagon with Hella projectors and they are blue but no comparison to the crappy light from the upgraded halogen setup I had in there before.

The Passat gets the H7 whiter PIAA's and they work well. The beam pattern seems to work well to get enough light where you need it.
 

Niner

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Jun 3, 2011
I can't imagine that headlights would be the basis for buying a car. There are so many aftermarket options for our cars that can be installed very easily.

I have HID's in the New Beetle with the factory projectors at 6000K temp and they are amazing compared to stock H7's and just a slight blue tint.

I have 8000K temp HID's in the Vanagon with Hella projectors and they are blue but no comparison to the crappy light from the upgraded halogen setup I had in there before.

The Passat gets the H7 whiter PIAA's and they work well. The beam pattern seems to work well to get enough light where you need it.
You have a part number and a link for those H7 cool white PIAA's for a good price on the internet? What about cool white DRL's, what kind of bases do they run?
 

PB_NB

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Hi Niner,

Unfortunately, PIAA an good price don't go hand in hand. PIAA's are usually over 100 bucks a pair. The Sylvania's are more reasonable and just about everyone carries them.

Try www.piaa.com to find a dealer list.
 

VeeDubTDI

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PIAAs are definitely expensive, and the lamp life isn't the greatest. However, the output is amazing and I think they're worth the money.

My favorite PIAAs are the Ion Crystal (selective yellow) lamps for fog lights. They look blue until you turn them on, then they're a brilliant yellow.
 

Joe_Meehan

Top Post Dawg
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Location
Ohio USA
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NB TDI, 2002.5, Silver
Actually, it IS better as far as light output goes…....

I don't disagree with anything you wrote. I appears you have a good understanding of the issues involved.

The only comment I would make is that, since HID does not produce a continuous spectrum. This can cause a distortion in the appearance to the person viewing the light.

Likely the worse example are those orange sodium lamps on the freeway. I have not seen any example, but I suspect that a smooth spectrum light source would prove to be safer.
 

verylongdrive

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Feb 10, 2005
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HSV
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Golf,2001
I don't want to spend the price of HIDs, and the H7 is a fine bulb, and also available in all-weather yellow, which I do want.

The Passat lights are plenty bright as such, but the light pattern could be better (as you'd expect from a DOT-approved light).

The cheap brazilian E-code lights I put on my Golf make for fairly wonderful far-reaching light, using the same H7 bulbs that the stock DOT lights used to make splotches.

So the obvious hopefully-affordable solution would be regular-bulb E-code lights. I supposed there's no hope the Mexico or Canada export version of the car has e-codes. Does China use e-code lights? Do they have a non-HID option?
 

Diesel Ed

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Fairfax MN
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2012 Passat TDI SE (DSG); 09 Jetta TDI (DSG, Sedan)
Jared: Any pics of your setup/retro? I'd love to do one on my dad's car, but that might not go over too well, lol.
 

snakeye

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Montreal, Canada
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Yeah it wasn't any kind of issue to me to not buy the car but some of the posts on the forums people just won't buy the car because of it and I was just wondering what the big deal was cuz I've never had them before and my regular old halogens seem just fine to me.
I doubt anyone would refuse buying a Passat simply because it doesn't have HID bulbs. People that say they would are just voicing their discontent with the dumbing down of the new Passat, and say the same thing about the cheap trunk hinges, lack of hood shocks, etc.
 
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