The age of engine downsizing is over, says Volkswagen

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
Aluminum's biggest hurdle is keeping the paint stuck to it. I am curious to see how well Ford's system holds up on the F150, because I am pretty sure they are not employing the same process to paint a $23k pickup that Audi uses to paint a $90k A8L.

Ford's previous generation steel bodied F trucks are awful for rust. Even here we see them with less than 10 years of use starting to bubble and holes show up. Silverados and Rams are just as bad. But given the cheapness of these trucks it should not surprise anyone. Sure, they have the $11ty Double Plus MSRP King Kong Spicy Ranch Laramie Limited Gold Pressed Latinum Hardly Ableson Edition versions that a lot of people go eyeballs deep in debt to own, but they are not graced with anything special paint/metallurgy wise, so they rust just as bad. Still a cheap vehicle underneath.
 

PlaneCrazy

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Gone...
How do aluminum unibodies hold up on those roads? That might help...
As any aircraft owner will tell you, aluminium corrodes! Airports use urea instead of salt to deice runways for that very reason. Aircraft in damp salty environments (i.e. near the sea) do have corrosion issues. Trust me I know, at my last annual I had to clean up some surface corrosion on the inside belly of my plane, the very place where wet, salty boots drip into. Fortunately the mechanic let me do it myself with his inspection afterwards, saving me the hourly labour rate.

The difference is that aluminium corrosion is white, not brown, so perhaps a bit less unsightly.
 

20IndigoBlue02

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Was North NJ, now SoCal
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2002 Golf TDI-- deceased
I ran my '07 Passat wagon up to 160k km (100k miles) with no problems other than high oil consumption.

It's hard to say if the TSIs last as long as a TDI.

What I can say is that for many drivers like me in the rust belt, it's a moot point. Our '05 Passat TDI, now driven by our oldest son, has just under 300k km on it. It has the geared balance shaft drive, and original transmission and original "lifetime" fluid :eek:

The engine runs flawlessly, but the rest of the car is falling apart. The corrosion warranty expired last fall, and the left rear door is full of large holes. Plus a lot of other old car issues.

When it reaches time to do the timing belt (320k km), it will be time to get rid of it (about 3 more years at the rate my son drives it).

The car that the Passat replaced as daily driver, was a 1998 Honday Odyssey. We ran that one for 15 years and 300k km. It too had to be scrapped due to extensive corrosion, the jack punched through the frame when changing a flat. So same mileage, slightly more years. Gas vs Diesel. It's a wash, in both cases the drivetrains outlasted the rest of the car.
I was coming up on a host of maintenance, that caused me to buy a new car:
- overdue timing belt change
- new tires
- new clutch & flywheel
- and the ECU couldn't connect to the government OBD-II scanner for emissions.

The high oil consumption (which I also had) is likely due to the failed passages in the valve cover for the PCV system
 

tikal

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Location
Southeast Texas
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2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
The Mazda and Ford DI gas engines have the same issues any of the others do: increased oil dilution and in some cases some oil consumption. I am not certain what all Mazda has done on their own since the split from Ford. The newer Focus has a laundry list of problem areas that make anything regarding engine oil pretty trivial. Sad to see those cars with so many troubles, as they are a nice car to drive.

I'd still rather drive a Volkswagen.
Thanks for the feedback. Maybe using an oil outside of what the dealer puts might lessen the issues of oil dilution and consumption. Something with a NOACK of less than 10% and with the right blend of ester, PAOs and HOBS oil base.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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Location
outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
The problem is that with any of the DI gas engines is they have the habit of diluting the oil like the old carburetor engines did. But the difference is, everyone except the Germans seem to want to spec 0w20, 5w20, or at best a 5w30 oil. They do this primarily to get that extra tiny bit of fuel economy, but it comes at the cost of the engine.

This already thin oil, when diluted even further, is much easier to burn away in the normal operation of the crankcase ventilation, so the likelihood of these engines being run low on oil over and over is the end result. And since the vast majority of the motoring public refuses to make sure their crankcase is full, shortened engine life is the result.
 

kjclow

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Charlotte, NC
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2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
How do aluminum unibodies hold up on those roads? That might help...
As PlaneCrazy mentioned, aluminum will corrode. How badly and how quickly depends on what your local DOT actually puts on the roads. Most cities ahve gone to putting a brine solution down before the storm hits. This is usually not just a mixture of common salt (NaCl) since common salt only reduces the freezing point a few degrees. Other chemicals help depress the freezing point as much as 20 degrees F and are extremely more corrosive to steel and aluminum. Best suggestion is that if you want your vehicle to last, wash it often all year.
 

NSTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2002
Location
Nova Scotia
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15 Passat
I could not ever own anything I cared about with that level of salted roads. I'd probably buy a used car every few years, do as little as possible to it, and just keep turning them over.

I love the cold, but not that much. I am too much of a car guy. :(
We are in the rustiest part on Canada, lots of road salt + the salt ocean air. We have 2 very good anti rust systems, aftermarket, that have been in use for years. Krown and Rust Chek. My 2002 Tacoma has original paint and has been Krown treated since new, no rust. This is one of the models Toyota recalled for frame replacement, my frame has no holes, very solid.

I did not do rustproofing on my 2003 Passat, I had 2 trunk lids replaced on warranty.

Don
 

tikal

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Southeast Texas
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2004 Passat Wagon (chainless + 5 MT + GDE tune)
Worth noting that it's not downsized - they're the same displacement as the engines they replaced, and they're not turbocharged.
You are right. Maybe downsized in relation to pretty much everything else Americans like to press the accelerator on and get that rush feeling of acceleration :)
 

donDavide

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Oct 4, 2005
Location
Severna Park, Maryland USA
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2003 Jetta ;2006 Golf; 2015 Jetta S
Yep, V10 TDI oil.

Mobil discontinued ESP Formula M 5w40, as the ESP 5w30 (504/507) already met the Mercedes requirements, so from a business case, there was no point for redundant oil.
5w40 formula M ESP replaced by a 0w30 ESP X1, so just as redundant.I went to Valvoline Syn Power to meet the 229.51 spec, the 5w-40. Meets 502.00; 505.00/01 also, got it on sale at napa also meets an older diesel spec, CJ
 
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993er

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Canada
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The downsizing may have ended, unfortunately many manufacturers have adopted the 2.0T size. I do not want a turbo in my car unless it is a diesel.

Luckily the car I like and that will replace my TDI has a 3.5 V6 that is normally aspirated.
 

993er

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Canada
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Some of the lower priced 2.0 BMW's in North America have two turbos....
I test drove the BMW X3. I was surprised it had a 2.0L 4 cylinder turbo (maybe a twin turbo). Whatever happened to the nice 6?

The turbo aspect and another feature had me tick it off my list.
 

SuburbanTDI

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Midwest
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Beetle TDI, and two Jetta TDI
They actually get quite a lot out of the 2.0, and its won a slew of engineering awards since it came on the market in Europe years ago.

It's a nice engine, but I agree it's no match for the classic naturally aspirated straight 6.

Just wait, next you know someone will try to switch out the boxer on the BMW bikes....all, no doubt, in the name of fuel economy and emissions...
 
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TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
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BMW's 2.0 4-cylinders are called TwinPower, but it's not twin-turbo!!!
 

LarBear

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Jun 25, 2013
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Billings, MT
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2013 Jetta TDI DSG
We traded(?) our TDI Jetta for a Golf All Track with a turbo 1.8L gasser and DSG. My wife hated the Jetta and the TDI which seemed to always be in regeneration mode when she drove it, as well as not being able to see very well out of it. She loves the Golf already. Yesterday I filled up the Golf for the first time and calculated 26.7 mpg which is about 12 mpg less than we got with the TDI in similar driving, but the Golf turbo gasser gets out of its own way with no trouble and has a torque band nearly as wide at the TDI. It goes up hills and into headwinds without downshifting like the TDI did, and unlike POS, the '08 V6 RAV4 I drive. When loaded up with all my stuff to go prairie dog shooting it made 21-22 mpg because it has no bottom end power at all and spent most of its time in 3d or 4th gear. I understand that it's an old tech engine without variable valve timing and all, but my '92 Dakota V6 would out-grunt it and it was an older tech engine and got as good mileage fully loaded.

All that being said if someone lives where there are serious hills and/or mountains an engine with some torque is needed IMHO, otherwise you'll be holding up traffic. Nothing quite like a loaded 18 wheeler pushing you up a hill. A tiny engine no matter how much turbo pressure is applied can't cut it, or won't last long.
 

PlaneCrazy

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Gone...
We traded(?) our TDI Jetta for a Golf All Track with a turbo 1.8L gasser and DSG. My wife hated the Jetta and the TDI which seemed to always be in regeneration mode when she drove it, as well as not being able to see very well out of it. She loves the Golf already. Yesterday I filled up the Golf for the first time and calculated 26.7 mpg which is about 12 mpg less than we got with the TDI in similar driving, but the Golf turbo gasser gets out of its own way with no trouble and has a torque band nearly as wide at the TDI. It goes up hills and into headwinds without downshifting like the TDI did, and unlike POS, the '08 V6 RAV4 I drive. When loaded up with all my stuff to go prairie dog shooting it made 21-22 mpg because it has no bottom end power at all and spent most of its time in 3d or 4th gear. I understand that it's an old tech engine without variable valve timing and all, but my '92 Dakota V6 would out-grunt it and it was an older tech engine and got as good mileage fully loaded.

All that being said if someone lives where there are serious hills and/or mountains an engine with some torque is needed IMHO, otherwise you'll be holding up traffic. Nothing quite like a loaded 18 wheeler pushing you up a hill. A tiny engine no matter how much turbo pressure is applied can't cut it, or won't last long.
It's actually a wider torque band than a TDI. TDI peaks at something like 1600-2600 RPM. The TSI peaks prom 1500-4200 RPM or thereabouts. Although the peak is lower on the TSI 185 for the manual and 200 for the automatic, vs 236 for the TDI), the extra 20-30 hp depending on TDI version makes up for it, and the TSI scoots along nicely. And i get over 40 mpg hwy and 37 avg :D
 

TDIMeister

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There's no statement in the article that specifically points to any trend of engine sizing one way or the other. To continue toward improving fuel efficiency, engines will use more tricks of the trade already fairly well known in prototype and R&D stages. These include further implementation of the Miller/Atkinson cycle; "corona" or plasma ignition systems for spark-ignition engines; further optimization of fuel injection; friction reduction; cylinder deactivation; and greater degrees of freedom in valve timing, to name a few.

There may be limited production of engines employing non-conventional combustion processes like HCCI, PCCI, etc. Gasoline and Diesel fuel in reciprocating engines will remain the most common for a good 20 years yet.
 

TDI2000Zim

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Location
NJ
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VW hat meinen '14 Passat TDiSE getötet.
The age of engine downsizing is over, says Volkswagen
The trend of making engines smaller is over, says Herbert Diess, Volkswagen's chairman, marking an end to a decade-long development where engine capacity has been reducing leading to the current vogue for 1.0-litre, three-cylinder engines.
"The trend of downsizing is over," he said at the launch of the new updated version of the Golf – VW's most popular car.
"Emissions tend to go up as engines get smaller," he said, referring to the way that small-capacity engines can perform worse in real world Driving Emissions Tests (RDE) due to be introduced in Europe in 2019 as part of the Worldwide Harmonized Light-duty Vehicles Testing Procedure (WLTP).
Diess says VW will continue with its current 1.0-litre, three-cylinder engine for its smaller cars such as the Up and Polo, but it will not be developing smaller petrol engines than that and its diesel units will not be getting smaller than that current 1.6-litre unit, either.
I think that this means that the Environmentalism-driven witch hunt on automobiles is history. No more clown cars for the next 8 years.

Yippee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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