.205's, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

tongsli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2000
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
.205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

I was wondering how many of you with an Upsolute chip and .205 injectors have upgraded their clutch and or flywheel to the VR6/G60 combo?

Jim at Diesel Geek wasn't 100% sure if the VR6 clutch upgrade was enough to keep my clutch from slipping. He said he thought some of you here might have upgraded and eventually got some slipping down the road?

I want to do something, but don't want to do it twice.

Thanks,

Lito

[ November 05, 2001: Message edited by: tongsli ]</p>
 

TDI Believer

Responsible For Global Warming
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Sep 20, 1999
Location
Charles Town,WV
TDI
2012 Touareg TDI
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

It won't slip. Turbo Steve's didn't slip with the .205s, chip and 11mm pump. Mine has been on for about 25K miles and it has never slipped.
 

TDi RAY

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Jul 28, 2000
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FT. Rucker, AL
TDI
Jolf '00 Nogaro Blue.
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by TDI Believer:
It won't slip. Turbo Steve's didn't slip with the .205s, chip and 11mm pump. Mine has been on for about 25K miles and it has never slipped.<hr></blockquote>


I have the same setup and it will slip he hasn't slipped it yet because it is 3 days old. I have a metallic disk in and it holds good now but for how long is the question. I had a dual fiber disk in with the same setup and as soon as the injectors went in the clutch went out. check with Kennedy engineered products do a search for them the sell a ton of aircooled clutchs and just made a HEAVY plate for the VR6 which is to hold some serious torque on a stock disk.
 

Torque!

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2000
Location
Boston, Massachusettes, USA
TDI
2001 MK4 Jetta TDI - 196K
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

RGoetz has this clutch installed on his Golf.

I believe it worked well for him.

Rob where are you?
 

tongsli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2000
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

Thanks for the replies guys!

Rich, I remembered from Pete's post that he upgraded the clutch, but like TDI Ray said, it's pretty new.

I thought you had done the same because I remember you showing me your OEM clutch plate and disc at your last GTG.

TDiRay,

I know that if I don't push it in 4th and 5th that I can keep it from slipping. Do you think one's driving style would affect if and when the clutch will slip?

I know there were a bunch of people in the second wave of .205 Injector installs and was hoping more of them would post here to report the longer term clutch slipping observations.

Thanks again,

Lito
 

tongsli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2000
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

If anyone has tried this, please let us know how things are holding!!

From SVTWEB:

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr> The stock clutch is a 220mm.... You may want to move up to he 240mm CLustch from the 130 or 150 HP PD TDI from Europe.

You need the following.....

Clutch Disc 038 141 032 B
Pressure Plate 038 141 025 H
Flywheel 038 105 266 S

These are the parts for a 130-150HP PDI with 5 SPeed Manual Tranny....... <hr></blockquote>
 

BillW

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2001
Location
SLC, UT, USA
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

My clutch is stock with .205's and Upsolute. My car clutch does not totally slip, but instead shimmers like it is ready to give way to the torque of the engine. This mostly occurs when going up a steep hill and I punch the throttle really hard. I do not feel actual slippage like some other vehicles that I have tested, but just a strange shake in the clutch. I am at 4300 feet above sea level so I do have reduced power at this altitude. I would hate to see how it would behave at sea level. I plan on using my clutch until it needs to truly be replaced.
 

Dieselgeek

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Location
Golden, CO
TDI
2016 Golf TDI
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

Lito:

What I was trying to say about the G60/VR6 combination clutch is that I had heard a rumor of one guy who has had a VR6 clutch slip though I never researched it. Also, it would be a bad idea to promise anyone that the clutch I was going to sell them would never slip, given that the clutch will be used with higher torque figures than stock VR6 levels. I have seen VR6 clutches with 120k that look brand new and I've heard many stories of supercharged VR6's using the stock clutch with no problems so I feel pretty good about selling the G60/VR6 clutch setup to the A4 owners. I think that VW specified a good safety margin when they spec'ed out the VR6 clutch.

In sum, I don't want to get a bad reputation by promising anything about whether the VR6 clutch will hold, especially since the performance envelope is increasing pretty steadily on the A4 motors. I do think the Sachs VR6 clutch is a good clutch for the TDI but somebody is eventually going to smoke one and I want to make sure that I haven't promised anyone that it would hold forever. Not getting defensive, I just need to be clear on this one.

Jim
www.dieselgeek.com


<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tongsli:
I was wondering how many of you with an Upsolute chip and .205 injectors have upgraded their clutch and or flywheel to the VR6/G60 combo?

Jim at Diesel Geek wasn't 100% sure if the VR6 clutch upgrade was enough to keep my clutch from slipping. He said he thought some of you here might have upgraded and eventually got some slipping down the road?

I want to do something, but don't want to do it twice.

Thanks,

Lito

[ November 05, 2001: Message edited by: tongsli ]
<hr></blockquote>
 

rgoetz

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 14, 1999
Location
NJ
TDI
None currently
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

Here I am!

I do have the G60/VR6 combo, but I don't have .205 injectors (just the chip with a twist).

(Torque, I'm always enjoying the boost guage--thanks again!)
 

leedawg

Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2001
Location
Napa Vallye CA
TDI
ltetz
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

All this clutch stuff is making me a bit weary of upgrading to the injectors and the chip
Few questions do you guys usually do the clutch swap yourselves? Was wondering how hard it is to do. Or do you usually just take it in to the dealer have them do it or some other garage somewhere do the work for you. Honestly how big a differnce dose it make to upgrade the engine from the stock version? Do you notice huge amounts of performance increasese such as acceleration um top end? Just thought I would ask how large a differnce it all is. I mean if it is significant i dont mind shelling out 2k for it all but thought I would pick up an honest opionin.
 

rgoetz

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 14, 1999
Location
NJ
TDI
None currently
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

leedawg--I had an independent shop in the Boston area do the clutch work.

The chip makes a tremendous difference in the car. It's for real.


I can't speak about the injectors.
 

tongsli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2000
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

Thanks Jim!

I completely understand. You and I talked on the phone about this subject before I posted something so I know exactly where you are coming from. I'm sorry if I didn't elaborate fully with my post. You've been excellent with helping me consider choices and making decisions.

I was hoping that others here with the same setup that I have might be willing to share their experience so that I could make a well-informed decision. I'm not in a rush to buy anything, just trying to do my research
 

TDI ESEL

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Do we really need to know?
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Do we really need to know?
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

Id like to see if theres a higher friction material that can be used in place of the stock one, with the stock pressure plate. I have to be very gentle with just the chip! Or else in 5 deg weather, it slips 400RPM on the highway.

Edit, I can get it to 800RPM at almost any time - I wonder about using this 'race clutch' with the duel mass flywheel! Right now its beginning to really pizzas me off! I can almost physically feel it grind in my muscles!

[ December 04, 2001: Message edited by: TDI ESEL ]</p>
 

leedawg

Member
Joined
Nov 7, 2001
Location
Napa Vallye CA
TDI
ltetz
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

So it really adds that much power to the car. Sounds liek they are a lot of fun once they have been moded a bit. I think i am going to have to invest in this chip and then possibly a new clutch what has everybody been buying just the VR6 clutch ?
 

TDI ESEL

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Do we really need to know?
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Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

Above 9 or 10 Celcius it never slips unless it's dead. Below that, at about 5 Celsius, watch out at about 1800RPM, be very very gentle.
 

BlueberryGirl

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 12, 2001
Location
Moved from CO to North Carolina
TDI
New Beetle, 1998, Blue Lagoon
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

Charles and I just did the G60/VR6 clutch upgrade ourselves on a cement pad. In fact, I was able to do a lot of it myself. The part from hell was getting the transmission back in the car. But if we'd had two good hydrolic jacks it would have been a lot easier. This was with the NB so if you have a Jetta or Golf it is probably a little easier.

I definately like the feel of the the new clutch better and it won't be having difficulties with the dual flywheel and stripping out my input shaft again.

Mickey has some good pictures and directions for the change. Do a search for them and take a look.
 

sonnylowe

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2001
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

So Lito what have you decided?

Any advice for me, my clutch is really slipping in the higher gears


It would nice to feel all that power I've made


[ December 04, 2001: Message edited by: sonnylowe ]</p>
 

tongsli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2000
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

Sonny,

I've decided that money is tight right now and that I will lay off the pedal until I can gather some funds and finance a change/upgrade.

I like SVTWEB's idea of getting the Euro-spec clutch, it will just cost more because of the flywheel. But, I don't want to be the FIRST to attempt this.

Other than that, Jim(DieselGeek's) upgrade is something I'm considering as well.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr> The stock clutch is a 220mm.... You may want to move up to he 240mm CLustch from the 130 or 150 HP PD TDI from Europe.
You need the following.....

Clutch Disc 038 141 032 B
Pressure Plate 038 141 025 H
Flywheel 038 105 266 S

These are the parts for a 130-150HP PDI with 5 SPeed Manual Tranny.......

<hr></blockquote>

Welcome to the .205/slipping clutch club sonny!
 

sonnylowe

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2001
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tongsli:
Welcome to the .205/slipping clutch club sonny!<hr></blockquote>

Thanks Lito, I like the 205 club allot, it's great...but I'm not sure about that slipping clutch club yet!!! maybe the VR6 clutch club would be nice!?!?


Sonny

BTW way anyone looked into Impex for the euro clutch parts? Or can they be bought from the dealer here? Sorry if I've missed this info, but I'm feeling to lazy t olook again


[ December 05, 2001: Message edited by: sonnylowe ]</p>
 

diesel des

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Joined
Aug 19, 1999
Location
Belfast,NI
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

OK I have a A3 engine witch has the flywheel similar to the G60 unlike the A4. I run a sachs VR6 power clutch and now with the big 150BHP .216 injectors it slipps now and again. What is the next strongest clutch from sachs? Sooty has one witch is a race clutch and is not unpleasent on the road.
 

TDi RAY

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Location
FT. Rucker, AL
TDI
Jolf '00 Nogaro Blue.
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

My clutch started to head south very fast since I last posted in this topic it has taken a crap and slippes from 2-5th and is progressively getting worst everyday I drive it. I plan to put the car up for the winter here in a week or when the snow flys and will put a clutch in it in the spring with a LSD also and NOS.
 

CrazyGreekVW

Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2001
Location
Richboro, PA
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

I just received my g60/vr6 flywheel/ clutch upgrade parts today. I am scheduled to have it installed sometime next week.

I am confident the chip lead me to this upgrade, because I had the same symptoms as everyone else out there who is slipping at low miles, on their newer cars.

I will be more than happy to report my progress along the way. My expectations with this upgrade are that I will be able to drive my car aggressivly at most once a day, and it will hold up for at least 75k miles.

If this set up does not work for me under the above conditions, I will unfortuanatly have to bring it back to factor spec. Which includes removing the chip. After all is said and done I expect such an upgrade to cost about $1K.
 

TDi RAY

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2000
Location
FT. Rucker, AL
TDI
Jolf '00 Nogaro Blue.
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

crazy greek vw where are you located are you on the west side of pa. If so I can put the setup in for you possibly. I do clutch installs for $200 I have done 7 tranny removals now so I have got alot of experience.

email if you are interested. turbodieselgolfiv@msn.com
 

Getta_TDI

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Oregon
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2002Getta, GLS, Galactic blue
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

lee dawg If you want performance skip the chip and go with 11mm pump and 205 or 216 injectors and the torque alone will rip your head off
 

tongsli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2000
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

Most everyone who has tried the 11mm pump with .205's or .216's have some sort of chip be it Upsolute or Wett.

If you do try the larger pump and injectors, I'd be curious to see some dyno numbers.

Stock: 90hp at the wheels

With Upsolute Chip: 115 at the wheels

Upsolute Chip and .205 injectors: 125-130 at the wheels(depending upon air filter, intercooler piping, exhaust, fuel)

With Chip, injectors and 11mm pump: Yet to see some real dyno numbers estimated at 160+
 

Turbo Steve

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Location
.
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tongsli:
Most everyone who has tried the 11mm pump with .205's or .216's have some sort of chip be it Upsolute or Wett.<hr></blockquote>

I agree, especially since the enhanced software in a chip lengthens the window of opportunity or time the injector is open beyond the normal 36* window of ignition. This same principle is also true pertaining to a Tuning Box, which amplifies whatever signal the ECU is sending to the Injection Pump, be it OEM or chip induced software.

If you add more fuel via larger injectors, you also need to alter other variables as well.
 

CrazyGreekVW

Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2001
Location
Richboro, PA
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

I just had the G60/VR6 combo installed. 1st impression is good.

The car no longer slips. Obvious.

I didn't notice an increase in engine noise, which is very good.

The clutch pedal feels like it engages at lower point. Not a problem.

Car needs an alighnment. This was expected.

I haven't had the opportunity to really beat on it yet, but I think I will take it easy for a day or two.

When I shut off the engine the car shakes. It feels like my 1978 MB 240 Diesel. Anyone have any ideas. Faulty install, or should this be expected?
 

hallopt45

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2000
Location
Atlanta, Ga.
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

Where are you when you shut off the vehicle? Are you in a parking deck or in a garage? Give us a little more info.

I have heard of this before. Just want to hear all the symtoms...
 

CrazyGreekVW

Member
Joined
Jul 16, 2001
Location
Richboro, PA
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

I was in my drive way???? I turned the key to the off position, and it took about 1 second to shut off. During this second it felt like the car was forcing itself to shut off, hence it vibrated to its stop. I thought I may have been feeling things, so I tried it 3 more times. Same thing each time. Does that help?
 

tadc

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Apr 13, 2001
Location
Stumptown
TDI
Golf GLS TDI, '01, Black
Re: .205\'s, clutch slipping and VR6 clutch upgrade

check the anti-shudder valve(in the intake tract just before the EGR). You probably knocked the vacuum line off during the clutch install.
 
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