VW 507.00 vs ACEA for DPF life?

Jdragnfly

Active member
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Oct 2, 2012
Location
Orlando, FL
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI CR 6M
I have an '09 Jetta TDI CBEA and settled (confidently) on Amsoil Euro formula 5W-30 for the past several oil changes since 1) its 507.00 spec'd 2) my research convinced me its a great lubricant, and 3) its readily available to me at a decent price through my local independent VW parts place. Btw, I've lurked here long enough to be aware of Amsoil opinions in general, so I'm not trying to start anything :rolleyes:...

I recently had my oil cooler replaced under powertrain warranty (@54K) after discovering nasty tea colored coolant with rusty residue very similar to other threads here. My service tech, whom I trust from experience, saw the quart of Amsoil oil in my trunk and said that although he considered it an excellent oil for the engine, the fact that it was ACEA A3/B4 (and 1.5% sulfated ash content) rather than other C3 rated oils (0.6-0.8%), he was concerned about the life of my DPF. I emailed Amsoil to confirm the ash content in relation to my DPF concern, but they just replied that it was within VW 507.00 specs and, therefore, suitable.

Question: Is this significant/Should I be concerned? Should I not only be looking for a 507.00 spec oil, but especially for a C3 oil for the lower SAPS to protect my DPF? Also, can anyone confirm the Amsoil 1.5% ash figure I was quoted?

Thanks in advance.
 

JSWTDI09

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1.5% ash is much higher than any of the 507.00 oils I have seen. They are usually between 0.6% and 0.8%. Therefore this Amsoil oil is about double the "normal" ash content. I would only use oils that have either a VW507.00 approval or a Mercedes MB 229.51 approval.

Have Fun!

Don
 

TooSlick

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Dixie
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Audi 100S
Your service tech is misinformed. The ash content of the Amsoil product is 0.6% according to their tech services department. (I've been a registered dealer for over thirty years.)

TS
 

Jdragnfly

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Location
Orlando, FL
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI CR 6M
Your service tech is misinformed. The ash content of the Amsoil product is 0.6% according to their tech services department. (I've been a registered dealer for over thirty years.)

TS
Well, this sounds just fine... Do you have a printed spec that shows this (or show me where to get this?) I searched and couldn't find it on Amsoil's site or elsewhere, and the reply they gave me failed to give an ash %.

If that's the case, then I'm done searching I think.
 

tdiatlast

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2009 Sportwagen (boughtback); 2014 Passat TDI SEL (boughtback)
...I recently had my oil cooler replaced under powertrain warranty (@54K) after discovering nasty tea colored coolant with rusty residue very similar to other threads here. ...
Would you mind posting your experience with the oil cooler replacement here:

Brown coating inside coolant hose (
1 2 3 4)
Could you please tell us more about this replacement? Did they determine the oil cooler was leaking? How did they decide it needed to be replaced?

Thanks. My car has rusty scale on my coolant hoses, and brownish coolant, and I'm coming up to 60k miles.
 
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TooSlick

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Dixie
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Audi 100S
The ash content of the Amsoil 5w-30 European Formula is not called out on the spec sheet. However they're using an approved, VW 507.00 additive chemistry. In fact it's the same basic additive package used by several European oil companies, including Fuchs, LuberMoly and Motul. The additives that contribute to the ash level include Ca, Mg, Moly and Zinc (in the form of ZDDP).

An interesting point is that the previous VW 502.00/505.01 oils are also reduced ash formulations. These are loosely based on the generic "ACEA C3-10" specification, which requires ash to be 0.8% or less. The BMW LL-04 and MB 229.51 specifications are also based on the ACEA C3-10. VW/Audi have chosen to be even more restrictive when it comes to allowable ash levels in the VW 504/507 oils. The ones I've seen have ash contents of 0.6%-0.65%.

TS
 

Jdragnfly

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Not being able to find anything in writing about the actual ash % and having no luck with email, I called the tech line at Amsoil and the rep refused to give me a number, saying simply that its unpublished. Why??? I like the oil, but DPF's are $$$. Guess I'm switching unless I get convinced otherwise.
 

truman

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Not being able to find anything in writing about the actual ash % and having no luck with email, I called the tech line at Amsoil and the rep refused to give me a number, saying simply that its unpublished. Why??? I like the oil, but DPF's are $$$. Guess I'm switching unless I get convinced otherwise.
It' weird that Amsoil doesn't want to reveal the number, but if TS says it's 0.6%, I see no reason why you can't trust that number.
 

WutGas?

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Because TooSlick isn't going to pay for a new DPF. While I trust him on his number, I find it rather odd that Amsoil won't state the ash content.
 

Jdragnfly

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2009 Jetta TDI CR 6M
It' weird that Amsoil doesn't want to reveal the number, but if TS says it's 0.6%, I see no reason why you can't trust that number.
I'd love to trust it, too. I've lurked here for a long time and he seems like a stand up guy. However..
 

TooSlick

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That was a direct quote from their technical services department in a phone conversation I had. The low ash content is why this formulation has a TBN of only 5.8 (reduced calcium and magnesium, "organo-metallic" detergents). It also has a low level of zinc, which contributes 20%-25% of the total ash content. Finally, it uses boron as a supplemental anti-wear additive (which is ash and sulphur free), rather than moly, which contains both. In other words, the additive chemistry is fully consistent with a very low level of ash, phosphorus and sulphur.

TS
 

Lee_Taylor

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That was a direct quote from their technical services department in a phone conversation I had.
I believe the legal term for this is hearsay. I think I would prefer to have something in writing.
 

listerone

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My attitude is...why take a chance? Mobil 1 ESP is widely available and,particularly when on sale,is relatively cheap.
 

kydsid

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Texas
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2012 Passat
That was a direct quote from their technical services department in a phone conversation I had. The low ash content is why this formulation has a TBN of only 5.8 (reduced calcium and magnesium, "organo-metallic" detergents). It also has a low level of zinc, which contributes 20%-25% of the total ash content. Finally, it uses boron as a supplemental anti-wear additive (which is ash and sulphur free), rather than moly, which contains both. In other words, the additive chemistry is fully consistent with a very low level of ash, phosphorus and sulphur.

TS

So why is it that they will tell their dealers, as reported by yourself and another dealer over at BITOG, and will refuse to tell their customers, myself and evidently others in this thread.

I have used Amsoil for a decade in other vehicles. When I found out how hard it was to get a 507 I turned back to Amsoil. But their refusal to give me any answers when I questioned turned me to another manufacturer who would.

Simple issue is too me; if I have to use an exotic oil type to protect my vehicle I want a company willing to state in writing what the properties of their oil is otherwise I will wait for other people to be the test subjects.



My attitude is...why take a chance? Mobil 1 ESP is widely available and,particularly when on sale,is relatively cheap.

I attempted to turn back to them because over 6 months of ownership I have so far been unable to get anyone to honor a sale price on M1 ESP Formula 5W30. At regular retail prices either local or mail order M1 is more expensive than I can get the Amsoil and several other 507 approved oils.
 
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TooSlick

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Dixie
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Audi 100S
Most of the VW 507.00 oils do not explicitly list the levels of ash, sulphur and phosphorus. You can easily see the P levels with a $25.00 oil analysis. However you have to use compliance to the VW 507.00 spec to ensure compliance as far as sulphur and ash levels. Amsoil is using a certified VW 507.00 chemistry (this testing is done and paid for by the additive supplier) and they fully warranty their product for this application. There is simply no issue with using it.

However, I will see if I can get them to list the ash level, since I'm getting tired of typing....

TS
 
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