turns over but won't start

lightning

Active member
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Location
Tennessee, US
TDI
Jetta, 98, white
turns over but won\'t start

I got a 98 Jetta TDI a little over a month ago. It was running rough. Then the check engine light came on. It started sometimes acted like it ran into a revlimiter at different high speeds, and took up to 10sec to start. There were some error codes that said it might be one of the fuel pumps, the air flow meter, and idle speed control. Then the Glow Plug light started blinking. I figured all this could be the fuel filter since the blinking meant the water separator was full. I changed the fuel filter and tried to start it. If I was lucky it would idle for a second and die. I went to bleed the fuel line and noticed no fuel was moving in the line. Does the in tank fuel pump come on only when the car is cranking, or is it like gas cars and comes on first to prime the system. Mine does not come on. What do you think?
 

NuM3R1K

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 1, 2005
Location
Raleigh, NC
TDI
GLS, 1999.5 A4, Black
Re: turns over but won\'t start

Wow, that's a lot of stuff. Most of the stuff you're talking about is covered in the FAQ so check that out first. The glow plug light blinking normally has to do with your brake lights or brake light switch. How long did you try priming (you're using a vacuum pump, right?) I know when I did mine the other day it took a while for fuel to come through. Also, if the vaccum pump is not stuck in the fuel line tightly enough and registering that it has suction then it's not going to be able to pull any fuel through. Also, check the tee that connects to your fuel filter. These crack and leak air into your fuel system pretty easily so that might be why you can't pull fuel into the fuel lines. Like I said, check the FAQ first. It's a big help. Good luck.
 

bowlerman

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2001
Location
medford, NJ
TDI
2001 jetta tdi black
turns over but won\'t start

u have to fill fuel filter before u put it in first. then the rough running porbably cause of late timing check vagcom.
 

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Re: turns over but won\'t start

You need to get familiar with a car BEFORE you start throwing the blame around - and preferably before you start spinning wrenches in the first place!

1. There is no water-in-fuel sensor.
2. Flashing glow plug lamp means a minor fault - most commonly, it means the brake lamps are burned out or the brake lamp switch is bad. However, it can mean other things.
3. There is no electric fuel pump in the tank. Therefore it is normal for "no fuel was moving in the line". It is sucked up by the injector pump that's attached to the engine. The fuel filter operates entirely under suction. Which means ...
4. You have to completely fill the fuel filter with fresh diesel fuel before you reconnect the hoses. If you don't do that, the fuel system will lose its prime, and it will be really hard to re-start.

Good luck getting it going. Next time you get fault codes, please write down EXACTLY what the fault codes are. What you're describing is too vague. By the way ... clear all the codes after you get the engine going, because there are going to be a ton of irrelevant codes stored because of all your current shenanigans.
 

lightning

Active member
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Location
Tennessee, US
TDI
Jetta, 98, white
Re: turns over but won\'t start

Here is the thing I thought I was getting familiar with the car. I learned this stuff from my Chilton's Manual, which apparently is nearly worthless.
I know 2 of the actual fault codes were 1245 & 1248. The reader said 1245 was fuel pump. I don't remember what the others were off the top of my head, but I have it written down at home. Is there a way to clear the codes without the reader? Thanks for the help.
 

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Re: turns over but won\'t start

Chiltons? No wonder you are confused. Do yourself a favor and get the official Bentley shop manual. You need a code scanner to clear the codes ... and a proper VW-specific scanner such as VAG-COM www.ross-tech.com will explain the codes in plain English so that you don't have to look them up!
 

lightning

Active member
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Location
Tennessee, US
TDI
Jetta, 98, white
Re: turns over but won\'t start

I'm in Franklin. I make it out to the Burro fairly regularly so I will deffinently take you up on that. What is you #?
To give an update. The main problem for now is that they gave me the wrong fuel filter at O'riles. SO don't get your filters there! They were so close but the seat for the tee on the return line was different. I'll give an update when I get the new one in the mail. THanks
 

lightning

Active member
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Location
Tennessee, US
TDI
Jetta, 98, white
Re: turns over but won\'t start

Sorry I didn't check in until now. Anyway, I just put the new fuel filter in and sucked a bunch of air out the return line prior to the tee.
Then I tried to start it. It turns over but doesn't try to start. There is no fuel comming through the return line and I cracked one of the injector lines and nothing cam out. When I stopped bleeding I was still getting a few tiny bubbles. Do I need to do a lot more bleeding? I would think that I would still get some kind of flow out the return. Any ideas? Please help!
 

Audi5000td

Banned
Joined
Mar 16, 2005
TDI
2005 passat Wagon Northern Green
Re: turns over but won\'t start

Find the return line coming off the injector pump. Attach a vacuum pump with a reservoir and keep pumping until no air bubble and straight diesel fuel are coming up the tube and into the reservoir. The object is to prime the fuel filter and the injector pump completely, so that there are no air bubbles in the system, nothing but diesel fuel.
 

lightning

Active member
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Location
Tennessee, US
TDI
Jetta, 98, white
Re: turns over but won\'t start

Find the return line coming off the injector pump. Attach a vacuum pump with a reservoir and keep pumping until no air bubble and straight diesel fuel are coming up the tube and into the reservoir. The object is to prime the fuel filter and the injector pump completely, so that there are no air bubbles in the system, nothing but diesel fuel.
That is where I vacuumed from. Do I need to cap the end of the tee that I took the return line off of to suck from? The occasional bubbles that I am getting are no more than 1mm dia. I find it hard to believe that this is keeping any fuel from flowing. I will bleed some more when I get off work, but is there anything else I can check? Any other ideas?
 

lightning

Active member
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Location
Tennessee, US
TDI
Jetta, 98, white
Re: turns over but won\'t start

Update:
I got a Mityvac and am sucking from the return line. I have sucked at least 3 qts of fuel through the line and the bubbles are not going away. I have listened for leaks but cannont hear any. The line to the injector pump has no are in it. The car will not start and when cranking there is no fuel comming through the return line.
I saw where someone talked about the silonoid on the pump could cause simmilar problems. Any ideas? Shouldn't I have been done bleeding by now?
 

Herm TDI

Vendor
Joined
Nov 21, 2001
Location
Richmond, Maine...The far side of Witsend
TDI
2002 Golf GLS Malone Stage 3, P+520 nozzles, 11MM Inj pump, Sachs VR6 clutch, Stelth Race Pipe, Immo Deleat, EGR Deleat
Re: turns over but won\'t start

...I saw where someone talked about the silonoid on the pump could cause simmilar problems. Any ideas? Shouldn't I have been done bleeding by now?
On the top left (driver's side) of the injection pump you'll see the fuel shut-off valve. This has a single wire attached to it (easy to find). Have a helper cycle the ignition key off & on (without starting the engine) place your fingertip on the fuel cut-off valve. You should be able to hear & feel it "CLICKING".

If the fuel cut-off valve is not operating the engine will not start.
 

lightning

Active member
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Location
Tennessee, US
TDI
Jetta, 98, white
Re: turns over but won\'t start

It clicks 3 times when the key is turned.

WHat about the amount of bleeding I should have to do? Should it be nearly a gallon?
 

Herm TDI

Vendor
Joined
Nov 21, 2001
Location
Richmond, Maine...The far side of Witsend
TDI
2002 Golf GLS Malone Stage 3, P+520 nozzles, 11MM Inj pump, Sachs VR6 clutch, Stelth Race Pipe, Immo Deleat, EGR Deleat
Re: turns over but won\'t start

It clicks 3 times when the key is turned.

WHat about the amount of bleeding I should have to do? Should it be nearly a gallon?
The Fuel cut-off should click once when the key is turned on (open) and once again when the key is turned off (closed).

Bleeding the fuel filter a pint (16 Oz) is more than ample to ensure the filter & lines are primed.
 

weedeater

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 17, 2001
Location
Reston, VA
TDI
Jetta, 2001, Baltic Green
Re: turns over but won\'t start

Normally, about a pint is more than sufficient.

Seeing small bubbles on the inlet side is not too surprising. It's when the small bubbles turn to big ones that you have a problem.

Did your new filter come with Orings for the T-fitting? They also need to be replaced.

As a last resort you could try cracking loose the nut on fuel line at the #3 injector and cranking until you see fuel spurting out. Careful! this is high pressure. This is another way to clear air out of the system but is messier. Keep plenty of shop towels handy.

One of the codes you had early on could have been for a faulty injector pump. In which case it could explain why you're having starting problems.
 

lightning

Active member
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Location
Tennessee, US
TDI
Jetta, 98, white
Re: turns over but won\'t start

I've already tried cracking the injector nuts and nothing comes out. I'm about to check the fuel cutoff valve now that I finally have my Bently manual. Any further help pr subjestions would be apricaited.
 

lightning

Active member
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Location
Tennessee, US
TDI
Jetta, 98, white
Re: turns over but won\'t start

I took the valve out and checked it and it seemed fine. I used a screwdriver to listen to the valve open when the ignition is turned on. It makes 2 distinct clicks and has 11.6V going to it. Could someone please verify that these are right?
If no one has any more ideas I think I am going to have to take it to a mechanic b/c I am out of ideas exept for the pump. Anyone from Nashville area recomend anyone?
 

lightning

Active member
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Location
Tennessee, US
TDI
Jetta, 98, white
Re: turns over but won\'t start

I talked to a truck driver today who subjested I spray WD 40 in the intake while turning it over to get it started and then the injectors should clear out and it will run on its own. Might this work?
 

MTjake

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2003
Location
Belgrade, Montana
TDI
3
Re: turns over but won\'t start

Keep WD-40 as far away from your TDI as possible. I think this could potentially bend your rods, or some other mayhem.

The guy I got my TDI from lives in Knoxville, and has a mechanic he trusts, if that helps you any.
 

lightning

Active member
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Location
Tennessee, US
TDI
Jetta, 98, white
Re: turns over but won\'t start

Keep WD-40 as far away from your TDI as possible. I think this could potentially bend your rods, or some other mayhem.

The guy I got my TDI from lives in Knoxville, and has a mechanic he trusts, if that helps you any.
Do you have a name......Contact info?
 

saabguru

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2001
Location
The Capital of the Great State of Texas
Re: turns over but won\'t start

No WD 40 in your enging.

When I needed ether to get my old Diesel Mercedes running, I would spray a rag with it, wave the rag around, wipe a LITTLE bit in the intake, THEN start it. Even a worn, tired diesel will start on the IDEA of ether or WD40. Your TDi is still healthy, compression wise. No WD40!

You do not need this, you need fuel, which you're not getting.
 

lightning

Active member
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Location
Tennessee, US
TDI
Jetta, 98, white
Re: turns over but won\'t start

I just got the word back from the shop and it is the pump. I believe them b/c they say they can't do the replacement since it takes a special tool.
My car has 82000 miles on it. What do you think my chances are of getting a dealer to cover this?
Anyone know of places to get rebuilt pumps?
Thanks
 
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