Mixing Jet A with diesel

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Dec 30, 2018
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Pennsylvania
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14 golf tdi dsg
I know Jet A lacks lubricity for the fuel pump to run it straight on its own long term, but has anybody run a mix of 5% Jet a to 95% diesel.....or something like add 1 quart to a full tank of gas here and there?

Seems as though there should be enough additives in the tank of diesel to mix in with small amounts of jet A here and there?
 

[486]

Top Post Dawg
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02 golf ALH
it's just kerosene better processed to eliminate wax dropout at low temperatures
50/50 should be fine, considering what #1 diesel is

but the money saved with alternative fuels makes more sense in trucks where at 10mpg you can easily save enough money to replace the fuel system as a pseudo-maintenence item. At 40mpg you're saving peanuts compared to the cost of parts.
 

Ol'Rattler

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If you stick to 5% Jet A you would probably be O.K. 50% would probably clog your intake manifold if you EGR system is still operational.

"Commercial aviation fuel (Jet A/A-1) contains sulfur at concentrations of 400-800 ppm, although there is significant variation. By contrast, US road transportation fuel is subject to an ultra-low sulfur fuel standard of 15 ppm, which is about 97% less than jet fuel".
 
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[486]

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If you stick to 5% Jet A you would probably be O.K. 50% would probably clog your intake manifold if you EGR system is still operational.

"Commercial aviation fuel (Jet A/A-1) contains sulfur at concentrations of 400-800 ppm, although there is significant variation. By contrast, US road transportation fuel is subject to an ultra-low sulfur fuel standard of 15 ppm, which is about 97% less than jet fuel".
for the thousandth time, EGR buildup is unburned fuel from cold pistons
sulphur content means nothing for the amount of poop that builds up, all that does is the amount of EGR flow with a cold engine
 

Ol'Rattler

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So why did the ALH's prior to 2006 develop clogged intakes? I thought it was from high sulfur content in Diesel fuel. What was it back then, 1500 PPM and then 500 PPM compared to 15 PPM for ULSD.
 

turbobrick240

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It's probably free. I wouldn't use it if it shows any signs of containing moisture.
 

[486]

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So why did the ALH's prior to 2006 develop clogged intakes? I thought it was from high sulfur content in Diesel fuel. What was it back then, 1500 PPM and then 500 PPM compared to 15 PPM for ULSD.
they still do, mine had the intake cleaned and the EGR cooler drilled out every 30k according to the PO's records from 2003 right up to 2014.
It's probably free. I wouldn't use it if it shows any signs of containing moisture.
Eh, people run friggin fryer oil, at least with kerosene the water will more or less drop out on its own.
 
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turbobrick240

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Well, I'd use it in my old powerstroke or tractors if it was somewhat marginal. Running it through a pre-filter/ water separator wouldn't hurt.
 

Geordi

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So why did the ALH's prior to 2006 develop clogged intakes? I thought it was from high sulfur content in Diesel fuel. What was it back then, 1500 PPM and then 500 PPM compared to 15 PPM for ULSD.
For the exact same reasons that the CR diesels would coke up the intakes if they didn't have an "EGR filter" on the pipe - It is the EXHAUST SOOT mixing with the oily mist from the CCV. Didn't you ever make mudpies as a little kid? You mix something wet with something dry-and-dirty... And you end up with a paste.

That happens in the Jeeps too, if the EGR isn't resolved. One or the other of the ingredients needs to be removed from the equation to stop the buildup. Once the air is moving fast enough, the deposition accelerates.
 

ZippyNH

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I know Jet A lacks lubricity for the fuel pump to run it straight on its own long term, but has anybody run a mix of 5% Jet a to 95% diesel.....or something like add 1 quart to a full tank of gas here and there?
Seems as though there should be enough additives in the tank of diesel to mix in with small amounts of jet A here and there?
As a pilot....unless you do a DPF delete, etc, giving up the free warranty from the recall, I wouldn't do it.
Buy an older pre-emisions car if you really want to use free fuel...but honestly know a mechanic that regularly ran sump fuel and went through 2 HP pumps on his VW...Was a 2010 if I recall correctly, forget how much he used, honestly don't think it's worth the ¢ savings.
 

Ol'Rattler

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As a pilot....unless you do a DPF delete, etc, giving up the free warranty from the recall, I wouldn't do it.
Buy an older pre-emisions car if you really want to use free fuel...but honestly know a mechanic that regularly ran sump fuel and went through 2 HP pumps on his VW...Was a 2010 if I recall correctly, forget how much he used, honestly don't think it's worth the ¢ savings.
Best reason not to run sump fuel. When a turbine aircraft is defueled, fuel is pumped out of the aircraft into a fuel truck until the pumps cavitate. The sumps with any crud that have settled in the sumps is drained into fuel bowsers and given away to people that don't mind spending $100 in repairs to save $1 in fuel cost for their car.

Fuel Bowser
 
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Geordi

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nope
look up diesel engine wet stacking
it is fuel, not soot
LOL... That's not what wet stacking is. Here's some reading for you.
https://www.ckpower.com/wet-stacking-avoid/

Tip: When an engine is operating at normal temps and normal loads and the exhaust system is dry but the INTAKE IS WET WITH OIL... That's not wet stacking. That's oil in the intake mixing with EGR soot.
 

[486]

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LOL... That's not what wet stacking is. Here's some reading for you.
https://www.ckpower.com/wet-stacking-avoid/
Tip: When an engine is operating at normal temps and normal loads and the exhaust system is dry but the INTAKE IS WET WITH OIL... That's not wet stacking. That's oil in the intake mixing with EGR soot.
What does the EGR do? Introduce exhaust into the intake.
What temperature does the intake and EGR cooler peak at? Well below that where the fuel coke will burn off.

See also: why is intake coking reduced markedly when you get a remap that eliminates EGR flow when the engine is dead cold?
See also as well: Engine oil does not dry to a hard coke, neither does your typical hot exhaust soot.
Third see also: why does the EGR cooler plug up? It sees no engine oil.
 
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belome

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It's probably free. I wouldn't use it if it shows any signs of containing moisture.
So, it is free... you are only mixing it 5% so how much are you really gonna save?

I mean, there are so many reason NOT to use it (especially in a CR) and virtually no gain by doing it.
 

turbobrick240

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So, it is free... you are only mixing it 5% so how much are you really gonna save?
I mean, there are so many reason NOT to use it (especially in a CR) and virtually no gain by doing it.
True. Adding a gallon per tank seems like more headache than it's worth. I'd be filling up cans to take home to my less finicky diesels.
 

ZippyNH

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Who do I ask at the airport about getting free fuel without getting stuffed into a black van and sent to cuba?
Pilots on some airplanes must sump fuel on a daily basis... usually it's on smaller planes, and creates 1-2 gallons of fuel a week on a turboprop. Back in my feeder pilot days in a caravan, I usually had a gallon jug that I would empty weekly at the company hanger. Usually there are barrels it gets dumped into, then burnt in heaters for the hanger. Sometimes there are much larger volumes, but that is usually put back into the plane after the required repairs.
Pilots and mechanics have been burning it for years, but when emissions engines came to the diesel cars/trucks, made it much higher risk.
 
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rennsportmotorrad

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Port Orange Fl
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2004 Jetta TDI wagon
I burn the Jet A in my salamander heater in the shop when it is cold, But I would never run it in my TDI, I thought some of my BMW motorcycle customers were cheap---but some of the people here take the cake. lol
 

turbobrick240

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...says the guy driving a 15 year old diesel :D. I have a Saudi friend who couldn't understand why I'd buy a diesel car - apparently only ultra cheapskates buy them there.
 

ghohouston

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I wouldn't run questionable fuel in a common rail, with a dpf. I, as well as people i know have ran strsight jet a, and had no adverse effects from it, but those were 7.3's, as well as ve pump engines.
 

[486]

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Yeah, but when they run out of gas there.... They can always just get a full tank buying another new car.
I think it is more that gas is probably the equivalent of a quarter a gallon there

like in venezuela
 

turbobrick240

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Yeah, but when they run out of gas there.... They can always just get a full tank buying another new car.
You'd think, right? But the per capita income in Saudi Arabia is about one third that of the US. The rich are very rich, but most are not rich.
 

Ol'Rattler

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Who do I ask at the airport about getting free fuel without getting stuffed into a black van and sent to cuba?
You wold have to know someone that is involved with maintenance in the hanger.
 

piotrsko

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Used to be at Mojave apt they would hand it out free when the big jets arrived and had to be defueled before storage. Bunch of Yahoo's buggered that up getting caught with it in their 6.9 &7.3's. Which pissed off caltrans. Sometimes if you ask the refuel people you can buy it depending on their mood and weather.

I myself would either use power service white or find some winter D1 at a truck stop because they dont have weird stuff in them.
 
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