04 Jetta just quit running..

dunerking

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Oct 10, 2009
Location
Saugus,Ca
TDI
04 Jetta TDI
Driving home in the 04 Jetta(mileage 173k miles) when I exited the freeway. Made the turn off of off ramp with normal running conditions and as I approached intersection noticed,felt and hear what seemed as a release of boost. I rolled to the stop light and made a right turn and immediately noticed a huge lack of boost.. it then stopped running. I tried to restart which it did but idles rough then turned itself off. Any ideas of where to start looking? I know I need it Vag to check codes. Thanks for any info.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Where to start looking?

Under the hood.

I am betting it will be pretty obvious, as my crystal ball has been recently calibrated, and it is telling me the charge air tube came off the throttle valve.
 

dunerking

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Saugus,Ca
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04 Jetta TDI
I assumed under the hood...thanks.
I'll inspect the charge air tube once I get home from the tow. Fingers crossed its something simple. Thanks
 
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whitedog

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Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Also take a gander at the turbo itself. It's kinda rare, but it has occurred where the turbo breaks, blocking airflow. Usually this will show as a start and run for maybe a second their it starves of air.

Here's hoping for a boost tube!
 

dunerking

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Location
Saugus,Ca
TDI
04 Jetta TDI
All hoses appear to still be connected. I removed the quick release clip and noticed oil in the throttle valve and hose.
I'll climb under the car and inspect the turbo...it did do what u described with running for a few seconds then shutting off.
 

dunerking

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Location
Saugus,Ca
TDI
04 Jetta TDI
Also noticed oil residue around connections near intercooler,as well around connection from turbo. No noticeable cracks on the turbo,but could be internal. Was going to remove connection and inspect next.
 
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whitedog

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Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Oil accumulated on the hose connections is typical. You could pull the hose that goes into the intercooler and see if oil pours out. A bit of oil is typical, but more than a few ounces is a red flag that the turbo has failed.
 

JB05

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Location
Il.USA
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Golf,2005,anthracite blue
Check the lower, short hose connection to the IC. Mine had popped off due to worn nubs.
The connection was very greasy.
 

dunerking

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Location
Saugus,Ca
TDI
04 Jetta TDI
Thanks for the help and suggestions!

I inspected most if not all connections and besides the oil residue seemed good. The connections at the throttle valve seemed to have some play but was still connected. My neighbor has a standard code reader which I know isn't a VAG/Ross tech tool but maybe it could shoot me in some sort of direction.
 

dunerking

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Location
Saugus,Ca
TDI
04 Jetta TDI
I'll able to remove the inlet to the turbo and I'm pretty confident that it's done...wish I could post a pic. Im unable to spin the impeller as it's solidly stuck into the housing. I'm considering the VNT 17 for replacement and other suggestions? Thanks.
I wish oilhammers recently recalibrated crystal ball was correct with the hose from the throttle valve...may need a recalibration..lol
 

dunerking

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Location
Saugus,Ca
TDI
04 Jetta TDI
Looking for any suggestions of skilled LA area TDI mechanics(I had used Matt prior to moving up North,and still would) trusted in this project.
Also interested in any suggestions of what all to do while it will be this deep in a project. The timing belt and WP had been changed 45k miles ago. Should I have the intake manifold inspected? Also inspect cam?
I like the idea of the VNT 17 upgrade as well as a mild tune...but it still needs to pass Ca smog. Thanks for all advice and suggestions.
 

whitedog

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Location
Bend, Oregon
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2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Yeah. Hate to be the bearer of bad news.

Well, you aren't the first one in this boat, search around a bit and see what's available before jumping in. And stay away from Prothe parts. If you are imfamiliar with him, check out the vendor section.
 

dunerking

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Location
Saugus,Ca
TDI
04 Jetta TDI
Thanks white dog! I always have purchased my parts from IDParts,and probably go the same route with this project.
Just wish I knew what I could've done to have avoided this or to avoid it happening again. There was no signs of it acting up prior to it letting go.
 

whitedog

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Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
I don't know the root cause of these failing. Maybe Oilhammer can she'd some light with his experience.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Hehe, my remark about a crystal ball was to point out the absurdity of asking for help before you've even given a precursory look-see. ;) However, the issue of the charge air tube popping off up top is a very, VERY common one, and there is a fix for that, that is much less costly than a new tube.

www.IDparts.com has Garrett VNT17 turbochargers (and the different EGR pipe needed) for a drop in replacement for your BW turbo.

The BorgWarner turbochargers are much more likely to suddenly die, although on the BEWs it seems far less of an issue than on some of the other engines. Running the engine low on oil even once can damage ANY turbocharger, though.

You may want to get a new oil feed pipe just in case yours won't come loose at the turbo, as that seems to be a 50-50 shot for me lately.
 

dunerking

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04 Jetta TDI
Oilhammer,thanks for the info!! It's much appreciated! Do u have any other suggestions while I'm getting into this project? Thanks again.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
You may want to clean up the intake manifold. You do not *have* to take it off to replace the turbocharger, but it is easy and makes it much easier to get at things. And that one you can take apart, as it has the split port runner control flaps inside it.

There is a VERY specific way the EGR cooler needs to be mounted, and all the fasteners and brackets need to be in place. Otherwise, stuff will break.

The short version is make sure the EGR pipes, both upper and lower, are secured first, while the EGR cooler to intake manifold fasteners are left slightly loose. In this way, the cooler is at a neutral point when it is tightened down. Otehrwise, it can be in a bind, and the EGR pipe will break, and in some cases one of the three tabs on the cooler itself will break.

I'd also look closely at the coolant vent hose assembly that goes to the EGR cooler changeover flap, as that hose gets swelled up and fails under the tandem pump if there is any leaks there.
 

Nevada_TDI

Top Post Dawg
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2001 Jetta TDI
I am all for using IDParts, I do use them myself on occasion. You might want to check out Dutch Auto Parts for a replacement turbo as well: see post #3
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=434593
You may want to get a SS flexible oil feed line while you are purchasing your turbo; they simplify life a lot and are available on ebay for $25.00. I have had one for years and there are no issues with it.
 

dunerking

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04 Jetta TDI
Oilhammer and Nevada thanks for helpful advice and suggestions! Keep them coming as it's being fixed I'd like the knock out any preventive maintenance that makes sense.
 

dunerking

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Saugus,Ca
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04 Jetta TDI
So I'm on the fence as to wether I upgrade to the VNT 17 or stick with the stock KP39. After researching here and online the VNT 17 sounds like a more durable unit,which is very appealing but also seems like I need to add additional upgrades like injectors,tuning and probably upgraded clutch to see the full potential of the VNT 17. I'm so turned off by these cost as I'm more concerned about being able to smog it while living here in California. But the added performance and possibly being a more durable turbo are pluses.
But by replacing with stock KP39 turbo and maybe a simple tune would keep repair cost down and keep it easy for me to pass smog. Looking for opinions and suggestions. Thanks
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
You can run the VNT17 on there with the stock software, and it will run just fine. I do a Basic Settings VNT control to let the ECU learn the new vane sensor, but otherwise it will work just fine.

You can get OBD/CARB compliant software tunes that should work just fine with nothing else changed at all if you like, and the car will run fantastic, and you can retain the EGR and associated bits so the CARB inspectors will be happy.

The BEW, like all PDs, has a reasonable amount of fueling capacity in reserve anyway, so unless you are really wanting to double your output, injectors are not necessary. I have folks do Rocketchip Stage 1 tunes on otherwise stock BEWs all the time and they run great and pass our OBD test no problem.
 

dunerking

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04 Jetta TDI
Thanks Oilhammer! So would it be wiser for me to go the route of the VNT 17? I'm hoping as a end result to have a reliable,enjoyable,and easy to maintain commuter....which it has been for most of part of my ownership.
I've considered moving on from this Gen IV and get into Gen V,but I've rebuilt most of the suspension(Audi TT CA bushings,OEM tie-rod ends and BJ's,Koni shocks,OEM brake pads and rotors,etc)so with starting over in a Gen V would me starting all over.
As usual your information is appreciated! Thank u...Josh
 

oilhammer

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Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I would always recommend the Garrett VNT17 for replacing the turbo on the BEW. Even if you were otherwise not ever going to do anything else to it, I'd still go that route.
 

dunerking

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04 Jetta TDI
Thanks Oilhammer! May I ask why u lean towards the VNT 17? I'm liking the benefits of the VNT 17 as well.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Because Garrett makes a better variable geometry turbocharger than Borg Warner does.

This is why the two TDIs that were sold here from the factory with them, the ALH and BHW, rarely have turbocharger failures... or at least, not within any normal period of driving.
 

dunerking

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04 Jetta TDI
Thanks again! Great information to know! And helps making the decision to go with the VNT 17 that much easier!
 

jsrmonster

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15 Golf SW DSG, RC3 piped, 99.5 Jetta Rocket PD150 6spd 4motion, 2000 ASV110 RC6 "Silverbullet" 5spd Race Car, 2003.5 Cummins QCLB 4x4 "Blue Monster" Jeep CRD juiced, MB Sprinter van juiced up
I remember talking the the tech's at Garrett and Borg Warner booths at a sema show on year.

I told the Garrett guys their turbo gives better fuel economy and more power than their competitor. They claimed, yes they last longer, and I aggreed.

Then I walked across the isle to the BW table, and told the tech, their turbo had much better failure mode than their competitor. He asked what I meant, and I explained that when the garrett blows, it usually breaks the shaft and floods the intercooler with oil and shrapnel. He looked at me and said, yes ours are better engineered. And I carefully answered, that the BW turbos have stronger shaft in the center and usually just shear off wheels on either side of the captive axle and don't leak the oil. He agreed, then I explained this was observed from the large pile of blown BW turbos, I have in the scrap pile. He didn't ask what I replaced them with, but I always replace the BW with Garrett. ;-))
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
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Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Those clowns rarely know the whole story, or at least, will never let on that they do. The guy at the Aisin booth had no idea their autoboxes eat valve bodies. No clue. Yet it is one of the most commonly found problem in the last decade on their transmissions. Some dealers even stock several of them on the shelf. :p
 

dunerking

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Oct 10, 2009
Location
Saugus,Ca
TDI
04 Jetta TDI
Had a question about intercoolers? When digging into my issues I noticed one of the plastic mounting tabs is cracked. I assume it's been like this since buying the car in 08. I was considering buying a new IC for a couple of reasons,contamination,broken and upgrading to better match the VNT 17 turbo. I saw fixmyVW sales a SMIC as well as Eurojet...I'm sure that there is others as well. Looking for Pro's/Con's and any suggestions for IC's.
Also considering getting new injectors to take advantage of the VNT 17 turbo as well. Any suggestions on who to buy from and type of injectors would be great. Thanks
 
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