Beef on a Budget. VR6/Wagon springs

These are all great suggestions. Thank you!

I am wondering if anyone has used moog springs in the last year?

all the previous catalog discussion about rock auto seems to not exist.

Im weary that the moogs will give any lift as no store (online) can confirm that these are for a wagon specifically. Will be checking locally soon.

moreover, I found two 2002 wagons at the local pick n pull one had 1.8t the other 2.0 and one had two silver and three green springs while the other had two brown and one green. I can't find any info about these.

I asked about the three green two silver before and one person said "there is no reason to think they would not provide a lift" but there is no other conformation.

Id rather just buy new from IPD that guarantee 1.5' lift for $99 vs the 50$ its gonna cost at pick and pull on a Saturday with the blond working. lol

I put MOOG VR6 springs - front & rear - on my Mk4 Jetta and I'm very happy with them. I got them from RA lat last year. My car definitely sits higher, but the OE springs were shot.

I posted pictures under the title of Desert Jetta reveal.

Yes I have seen that. I think I might try and new moog springs in the 1 inch spacer

Well, still researching , I'm a week away from going up , waiting on the front TC's in the mail. (Less than 100$ at FCP BTW)

Anyway, my research has led me to some interesting data
How to get spring rate WITH OUT a machine!

Here is the formula and an explanation

http://www.bluecoilspring.com/rate.htm

I believe it's accurate because two white and one green is 154 lbs (fronts) according to common data form vw gurus. And my calculations with fast measurements got me about 141.3lbs. Very close enough to say there's a small margin of error.

Maybe someone needs this? I wish I had those different color rear wagon springs I found and was wondering f about. I imagine th

Ok, so I went up finally. Im up about 30" in the rear and 29.5 up front.


My rear end is making a metal on metal rattle. I don't think its shots toping out they are extended. Im damn frustrated. I don't wield nor do I have any friends who will help me.

A few weeks ago I found someone who said they were using a bilistean rear shock that was extended but was not designed for MK4's. Now I can't find it. I think (based on my internet search history) it might be BILSTEIN 33-230351

can anyone confirm this or has anyone read this?

http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=125882&title=lift&cat=500

http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=125883&title=lift&cat=500

Mine rattled when I put Moog wagon springs in also. Only the right side and I found after twisting it to match where the left was seated it quit.

I took my shackles off and the problem is gone. Now the shocks are maxed out.
The tears a bit hop happy. I'm going to get wagon struts prolly koni reds . First I'll call IPD and ask for measurements of the various wagon struts they have. I want good travel on dirt FS and BLM roads

So after reading this thread multiple times, I am at a loss of what to buy. I don't want to use spacers in the front if I can avoid it, so should I dish out the extra money for the Suplex VR6 front springs and the wagon rear springs? Granted the Suplex springs are almost three-times the cost of the "regular" VR6 front springs, but if I can get 1-1/2" without spacers and negatively affecting the alignment geometry, I can figure out the rear final height after the suspension settles, right? Thanks in advance.

For what it's worth, there were spacers available from the factory, based on some of the parts diagrams that I've seen.
They were only around 10mm thick, but I suspect that it won't mess with the geometry all that much to use a larger one, as long as you align it after whatever work you do.

Ride height changes geometry, whether it's achieved with or without spacers. MKIV cars will have less negative camber when raised. A 2" lift makes camber slightly positive on most cars. Not noticeable in normal driving, and won't have an impact on tire wear.

IBW, thank you. So after my car gets lifted by a new set of springs, will that make it unable to get aligned to factory specs? I guess if it won't affect tire wear then it is a no-worry kind of thing?

IPD Who?

dhangejr said:

I asked about the three green two silver before and one person said "there is no reason to think they would not provide a lift" but there is no other conformation.

Id rather just buy new from IPD that guarantee 1.5' lift for $99 vs the 50$ its gonna cost at pick and pull on a Saturday with the blond working. lol

Click to expand...

Who/where is IPD? The only IPD I saw is Volvo specific.

You can use jeep springs to get to 3"
Jk fronts up front
Xj fronts in the rear

I remember seeing most people using suplex fronts still needed to stack two 10mm spacers to get level with the rear towing springs.

My son's Golf with a 2" lift was not in factory specs for front camber. But it's only slightly out. He's driven the car close to 100K miles and we haven't seen any unusual tire wear.

I'd like to see a lifted only alignment spec sheet and issues thread.

Nevada_TDI said:

So after reading this thread multiple times, I am at a loss of what to buy. I don't want to use spacers in the front if I can avoid it, so should I dish out the extra money for the Suplex VR6 front springs and the wagon rear springs? Granted the Suplex springs are almost three-times the cost of the "regular" VR6 front springs, but if I can get 1-1/2" without spacers and negatively affecting the alignment geometry, I can figure out the rear final height after the suspension settles, right? Thanks in advance.

Click to expand...

I ran a while on the Moog cheap springs until they sagged down, then I got the Suplex. I'm in upstate New York with awful roads. I have the springs and spacers. You can adjust camber a bit with the 3 ball joint bolts.

Rich

I put 2” spacers with high mileage auto springs up front, moog wagon springs and Napa wagon shocks in rear. 1 1/4” rear spacers gave the rear end a slight rake. Shock travel and length were nearly the same as sedan. I believe I extended them 2”. I set the camber with a machinist square and had to slightly egg the ball joint mounting holes in the control arms to reach the spec. Spec was 1/4 degree I think. I haven’t driven it enough to make any claims on wear or settlement. Just found a pair of cheap 215/65/16’s to experiment with to see what it does to my gearing before buying tires and having it aligned. Curious at what speed it will idle in 2nd and 3rd gear. Hopefully some info someone can find useful. Also, when I had a friend spin up the rear spacers, I had him fit those little SS sacrificial spring seats on both ends of the spacers. Hoping that keeps the aluminum spacers from wearing.

Just installed the Idparts special. Koni special shocks and Suplex springs.

Haven't driven it yet.

Rich, thanks for the info on the MOOG springs; if mine crap out, then I will be buying the Suplex springs to replace them. I was going to order the Suplex spring initially, but after buying all new hardware for the struts and dampers, my budget was shot. The springs I took off had 272k miles on them, so I may have a bit of time left on these MOOG springs.

Is the purpose of the "Beef on a budget" package to lift your car for hauling/pulling a trailer? Or is it just for improved handling? If any of you have installed the "Beef on a budget" package from ID Parts (the Koni STR.T + Lift Springs Kit - A4 package) then can you please post a side pic of your Jetta sedan after you have drove it a few thousand miles and the springs have settled on it? I don't want to raise my car so much that it looks like a 4x4. I just want to replace my struts, shocks and springs to improve my handling at a price that is affordable. Any input is appreciated.

The taller "wagon" springs in the back, are a big help when towing--which I will do soon--but our oil pans are so close to the ground that any extra clearance is welcome. The handling may only be affected in a slight way as raising the front changes the camber from slightly negative to slightly positive. So if you are a track racer, then raising your car is a bad idea...

These cars tend to have the most grip when the front control arms are parallel to the ground and the car is level, front to rear. Not sure where the beef on a budget springs will put the control arms, but it will raise the rear compared to the front. Shorter rear springs would help optimize handling.

mine is up 2" and rides and handles nice, camber is adjustable by rotating the ball joint. If you look the slots in the ball joint are not parallel, rotating the ball joint body when the mounting bolts are loose will move the stem forward or backward changing caster. holes in the control arm may have to be enlongated SLIGHTLY to adjust camber. That all being said, I don't run that car hard in corners because it is up high. I did it for backroad and two track driving. Happy with the way it runs down the road though.

I do not have the rear springs installed yet, but I did install the rear dampers.After a couple of weeks with the MOOG springs and no spacers in the front, I am at 26-3/4" from the ground to the wheel arch. I do notice the front end is "tighter" but that was to be expected. I neither hear nor feel the cracks in the road any longer and that is the best part of the whole deal.


EDIT: above measurement is wrong, see below.

I probably should have said I have multiple thousand miles on the front springs and the height is either different, or I dummied on the tape measure last time. Today's measurement is 27-3/16" from the ground to the wheel well arch.

Anyone interested in a used set of moog springs front and rear along with the spacers for the front? I could sell all for 70 dollars plus shipping.

The purpose of raising the car is NOT for track handling. It is for two track roads, snow, protecting the oil pan and similar.

Due to higher center of gravity the car will have more body roll on a corner. I am not racing my cars so that doesn't bother me. When I have to bust drifts at time to get home from work or get through my driveway or there is a large chunk of ice the just fell off the semi in front of me and it is a two track road due to the snow/ice/slush (going out of the tracks can mean out of control handling) or taking on the chunk of ice - I want to protect as much as I can.

I had nothing on the 05 golf I have for one winter - then put the lift on. MUCH better for winter. I had snow tires each time.

Lastly- I find it much easier to get out of a car if I don't feel like I am sitting on the ground to raise up and out. I have watched my grand parents and parents struggle at times in cars too low. Raising up makes it easier for all (except my 3 year old).


Lastly - I have not noticed uneven tire wear at all. Other then the car that was totaled two times and I brought back into an alignment again.