oil pump picture/ info please

Dose anyone have or can take a few detailed pictures of a 1.9 tdi oil pump .especially the pressure relief valve . Exploded diagrams or anything . Im in the process of sorting my oil pressure issue. Ive had the relief valve out of the filter housing and it looks and feels ok so I'm on to the pump valve as the suspected culprit so any Info would be great

Thanks in advance jim

There's nothing to them, they don't so much pressurize as throw oil up to the valve train. There's no relief, but there is a pressure valve spring thingy behind a screw plug. You can put in a heavier spring for more umpff.
Having been thru this (low oil pressure) I might interweb guess you have spun crank and/or rod bearings. These are what creates pressure in the block.

Thanks for the reply . Where abouts on the pump is the plug? . I'm suffering to much oil pressure not to little . The miles and amount the cars towed if I had a bearing fault there would be bits of crank on the road by now .its mainly when cold if I set off hard up the road from my home the car eather runs on a couple of cylinders with loads of smoke (diesel ) or dies and spins over with no compression . Give it a minute to let the pressure drop and the car will start no problem small amount of smoke quickly clearing and driveing normal once warm its not an issue . I believe its valve jack.

Jim

I cannot imagine anything about the oil pressure (too high) that would cause the symptoms you describe other than turning the hydraulic valve lifters into solid lifters. (Valve Jack.... ) Would that cause the lifters to keep the valves open slightly, don't know? But, if so, likely the valves would get smacked by the pistons, thus now trashed.

But, I do believe the pressure relief by-pass valve in the oil filter housing would divert the over-pressure back to the oil pan. So, I think something else is going on.

Keep us posted!

Edit: Have you put a pressure gauge on to see actual pressure?

Its the only conclusion I can come to .cant think of any other way of losing compression then it coming back . Only happens when cold also it would only take a small amount of valve lift to lose compression the head is off at the moment and no signs of contact on pistons or valves . . I haven't had a oil pressure gauge on the car I do plan on fitting one to keep an eye on what's going on . . Sump is coming off next so I can see if there's anything in there .may aswell im not planning stripping the engine again hopefully for a long time

Jim

Ok so got the sump off tonight and Ive found what looks like threads (half coils of aluminum) in the pick up strainer .some actually partly through the mesh . ?

Jim
pump off tomorrow I think.

Sounds like you gotta worser problem. How do you know you're pressure is too high? These engines are all over the place, car only monitors the pressure within certain RPMs.
Is it possible compression is venting into the block?

Ok so pump off tonight .striped ,inspected and cleaned no signs of wear there is the odd scratch and what looked like pin marks as if something's maby gone through it . But I'm happy it turns free and has plenty service life so I've reassembled it oiled it and spun it by hand and it pumped oil in seconds. So next I think I'm into checking oil galleries also I'm going to remove the oil cooler under the filter housing incase anything ended up in there.

Jim

With metal shards in the pump, decent chance the oil cooler is clogged.
[ignore my earlier post about bearings, that's just for Low oil pressure]

Next question is the a removable plug to clean out the oil gallery's and which end of the block is it? Hopeing its not the flywheel end .

Jim

AndyBees said:

I cannot imagine anything about the oil pressure (too high) that would cause the symptoms you describe other than turning the hydraulic valve lifters into solid lifters. (Valve Jack.... ) Would that cause the lifters to keep the valves open slightly, don't know? But, if so, likely the valves would get smacked by the pistons, thus now trashed.

But, I do believe the pressure relief by-pass valve in the oil filter housing would divert the over-pressure back to the oil pan. So, I think something else is going on.

Keep us posted!

Edit: Have you put a pressure gauge on to see actual pressure?

Click to expand...

It actually DOES happen, and I have seen it multiple times on multiple engines. A new oil pump fixed it every time. I had one peg an ATF pressure gauge that went to 300 psi

oilhammer said:

It actually DOES happen, and I have seen it multiple times on multiple engines. A new oil pump fixed it every time. I had one peg an ATF pressure gauge that went to 300 psi

Click to expand...

Wow your the first person that's said they have seen the problem and fixed it . Have you seen this on VAG tdi,s ? And did you ever strip the pump and find any issues with them? . Ive had mine in bits and found no real issue it had minimal wear and all seemed well.

Thanks for the reply

Jim

He may be the first, but Oilhammer has worked on these cars as much as anyone. And he's good. I've sure never heard of that condition, but as my handle suggests, I'm not a mechanic.

I have seen it on an ME engine (1986.5 1.6L diesel), several VR6s (A3 Jettas, couple Eurovans), an AEG 2.0L, and a couple AZH 2.0L engines.

Cold start, sometimes if the engine is allowed to idle for a few minutes, it will not act up, but increasing the RPM a little after a cold start will cause them to start missing and stumbling, because the lifters are overpumping and hanging the valves open.

I never messed with taking an oil pump apart. They are cheap, and once you have it out, why waste the time? I do not even bother to check oil pressure anymore when I see this happen, I just replace the pump.

Yes that's the exact issue .usualy I would just let it warm a little and drive steady till warm . But the head gaskets gone so I've got the time to investigate the oil issue now . . Just don't like spending on parts unless I can see a problem with them . ( I am from Yorkshire ) being such a basic item and there being no wear I could see and the big valve is clean and working when pressed on it all looks well .

Jim

So, Oilhammer, after scratching my head a bit, seems the By-pass in the oil filter housing is for, well, by-passing the filter in the event the owner thinks it will last 100k miles.

Correct?

OP, I wouldn't consider installing that old pump... new one and move on!

AndyBees said:

So, Oilhammer, after scratching my head a bit, seems the By-pass in the oil filter housing is for, well, by-passing the filter in the event the owner thinks it will last 100k miles.

Correct?

OP, I wouldn't consider installing that old pump... new one and move on!

Click to expand...

there is a vertically oriented one that you can see when you take the filter element out, this is bypassing the filter element when clogged (or with cold oil) to keep the filter media from disintegrating
there is a horizontal one with a t60 or thereabouts torx head behind the steel dipstick tube, this one dumps excess pressure back to the pan (after the filter)
there is also a check valve on the inlet to the filter housing from the block that looks similar to the filter bypass previously mentioned

Then there is another pressure regulator on the pump itself. I do not know why they have the two pressure regulators other than possibly redundancy.

AndyBees said:

OP, I wouldn't consider installing that old pump... new one and move on!

Click to expand...

I'm still undecided but might bite the bullet and replace it . I just cant see or understand why it dose it .all relief valves are working ,freely there's no heavy deposits of crud or carbon in the engine the only swarf ive found up to now was in the sump strainer and one small slither in the oil cooler at the bottom of the filter housing ive flushed out the oil gallery from block to head feed and its clean . Blown out the head ( been to machine shop for head skim and decoke anyway so is clean ) ive washed all the drain backs to the sump and nothing . The only gallery I cant flush is in the block its self as the bottom end is together.
As the motors done 190.000 you would think if anything the minimal wear to components including the oil pump would slightly reduce the oil pressure .

I was running 5.30 w oil aswell so should be thin enough when cold .

Jim

jublybug said:

I was running 5.30 w oil aswell so should be thin enough when cold. Jim

Click to expand...

So, what brand and spec is the 5.30 oil have you been using?

I honestly cant remember . But I know it had a vag spec on the side of the can

Jim

Just putting the head together and tappits arnt wanting to squeeze out to well .wondering if this might be the issue?

I don't think it would be un-wise to pull 1 rod and 1 crank bearing to inspect- closest to the oil supply. Carefully inspect, maintain cleanliness, and if all checks out, carefully re-install with appropriate torque and new hardware if necessary. It's a lot cheaper and easier to do now if you have the sump and head off. If you find excessive bearing wear but the crank looks great, just rebearing it.
On that note, has anyone ever rolled bearings in the mains in-block on these? I've done it on dozens of larger diesels but never even had the pan off on a TDI.

Regardless, I second oilhammer's observation. I've only seen it twice, once on an old Chevy 250 I-6, and once on a small block Ford, but pump-up can happen. On the Chev it was sticky lifter internals not releasing pressure, the Ford had a hi-volume pump that wasn't needed and would build 200psi cold.


Lifters hanging in their bores isn't a great thing.
Can you see yet why they are hanging? Polished high spots or the likes?
If once they are out they aren't behaving pretty much uniformly that would be enough for me to be suspicious.
How does the cam look?
I'm personally not very big on putting new lifters on an old cam, but some have had success. As for old lifters on a new cam... NO.

Ok so I think I might have the culprit . I cant squeeze out the tappets' a couple have ones clicky but the others don't seen to want to .some oil has come out but not as much .could the internal valve not be letting the tappits drain ? . Ive got a set on order to see what happens ..

Jim Il keep this thread updated with my findings

Yes, you can "roll" new main upper bearings into the alh engine using some sort of nylon/plastic strips to "follow-through" once you initiate the roll (going the correct direction, of course).

You need to accurately judge your chosen plastic composition to ensure it will take an adequate bend and not crack and stay up there.

I went to Menards, purchased a couple of 98 cent plastic putty knives (green-colored). I put one of them in a vice and used a hack saw to cut strips slightly narrower than the shell. You then totally deburr the plastic and smooth-en the edges.

I initiate the roll with a very blunt screwdriver and then continue with one of the nylon strips coated with assembly lube. I did one at a time. Occasionally, I did use a dull bar to bear weight on a crank throw to "make" a little more room....as needed. Took awhile. Worked extremely well.

#5 is, of course, the worst.

Ok so engine is all back together .and ....... Wont start . Ive had the stop solenoid wire off to prime the engine and turbo with oil . Re connected it fit the injectors ( left them out to spin the engine faster and less stress on the starter) bled the fuel to the injectors ( squirting as high as the bonnet) but still no start . Its had a new cambelt kit and water pump . All pined before removal and refitted ( did it twice as I wasent happy it was 100% the first time ) it will kick on easy start so I'm kind of happy mechanically its right ( don't like useing the stuff but was a last resort) . Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks Jim .

Forgot to say ive moved the pump pulley in the slots a little to see if it made any difference but nothing.
Ive removed and refitted all the relays and checked fuses .

180 out on the timing?

I dident think I could do tho with the locking kit but I'm going to double check it .

Is there anything electronic that would stop it ( immobiliser maby) ive got all lights on dash as normal glow plug light comes on and gos out .ive had the injectors sat in fuel ( read on hear they can size if left dry) they were out of fuel for about a week . But id of thought they would still have fuel sat inside them . Went round all the plugs ive had disconnected and re checked them . The car has just sat iat work and not moved wile I've been doing the work .

Thanks for reading .. Jim

I've heard of timing out 180, not sure how you can do that, other than not following instruction.
There is a fuel shutoff, N75 wire, anti-shudder, but the immo will allow car to start and run a short time. First check all fuses.

Haven't read your whole thread, but if the fuel system was opened up it may just need primed.

jublybug said:

I dident think I could do tho with the locking kit but I'm going to double check it .

Click to expand...

easy to lock the camshaft at TDC of exhaust, take everything apart, then remember to look at the lock pin hole on the injection pump later on

180' out . Hold my hands up to it . I thought the end of the camshaft was a offset slot so you couldn't get it wrong ,but it isn't .re did the belt to day and she fired straight up. Still need to check the dynamic with vcds before I take it for a drive but at the moment it sounds good .. I will update this after a drive but its all looking promising.

Thank you all for the time and advice

Jim