TDI Used Oil Lab Analyses Results & Discussions

I tend to drive it fairly briskly, so that may account for some of the higher numbers (I hope).

dustingebhardt,

I feel your Fe is slightly elevated over most UOAs.... also I feel the oil seemed to thin out more than traditionally shown in most UOAs.
I have trouble believing the reported Flash at 420.

TBN for Blackstone is pretty low IMO.
Do you use Bio fuel in any way?

I would not run any VW 507 beyond 10k, my personal choice being 5k.

Curious to note that Fe is only going up.

If you are changing your own oil, I would try another filter other than the VW PureFlux Zig Zag filter and I would try an oil other than Castrol if for no other reason than a change of pace.
( M1 ESP, LM Top Tec 4200, Pentosin )

Do I get a prize for filling in the entire sheet?

Sorry to come in so late on this discussion. What do you do with the results of an oil analysis? Switch to a different oil? Change oil more often? Rebuild engine?

CedarPark68 said:

dustingebhardt,

I feel your Fe is slightly elevated over most UOAs.... also I feel the oil seemed to thin out more than traditionally shown in most UOAs.
I have trouble believing the reported Flash at 420.

TBN for Blackstone is pretty low IMO.
Do you use Bio fuel in any way?

I would not run any VW 507 beyond 10k, my personal choice being 5k.

Curious to note that Fe is only going up.

If you are changing your own oil, I would try another filter other than the VW PureFlux Zig Zag filter and I would try an oil other than Castrol if for no other reason than a change of pace.
( M1 ESP, LM Top Tec 4200, Pentosin )

Click to expand...

No biofuel was used, but I do used 4-6oz of PS DieselKleen (silver) at every fill up. I think you are hinting at fuel dilution, but I never do short drives. 90% of my miles are on the highway, cruising at 60mph.

I can get a different filter for my next oil change (@60k miles for a UOA at ~70k). Unfortunately (for me) I have a case of Castrol 507.00, and I was planning to use this for my next oil change. But I suppose I could go to Pep Boys and get some M1 ESP.

Hi Guys

Latest analysis on the wagon. We had twins last year, so didn't drive the car as much. Also, I was crazy busy and left the fluid in there for nearly 15 months/12k. So, here are the results (with previous for comparison). Previous sample was a 8k mi. interval.

NOTE: I could have sworn I put some moly into this oil change, but I may be getting confused with the sedan. Let me know if anybody recommends it for this car (wagon) or can tell from the sample.

NO ACTION REQUIRED. ALL ASPECTS OF THIS SAMPLE ARE NORMAL, CONTINUE TO DEVELOP/ESTABLISH TREND BY TAKING FREQUENT SAMPLES.

MAKE UP FLUID
1.0 qt

FILTER CHANGED
Yes


EQUIPMENT METER
188,777

METER ON FLUID
11,843mi

WEAR METALS:

type = previous / latest

CU = 3 / 5
FE = 27 / 47
Cr = 1 / 1
Al = 4 / 7
Pb = 1 / 3
Sn = 0 / 0
Si = 2 / 3
Na = 10 / 9
K = 1 / 1
B = 30 / 27
MO = 63 / 66
Ni = 1 / 1
Ag = 0
Ti = 0
Sb = 0
Ca = 811 / 897
Mg = 1016 / 1123
Zn = 1305 / 1356
P = 1034 / 1056
Ba = 0 / 0

Oil Condition / Particle Count
ST = 17 / 23
ST_WEI = 0.92%
OXI = 17 / 21
NIT = 9 / 11
SUL = 20 / 24
W = N / N
A = N / N
F = N / N
V100 = 16.0

Thoughts? Go back to shorter interval?

Kiva,

Looks like you may be generating a fair amount of soot? I'd cut back to a 10k change interval simply for this reason, even though the oil isn't technically worn out in this case.

TS

Dusting,

Your end of test viscosities and Cr/Fe levels (ring/cylinder and valve train wear), would indicate you may have marginally high fuel dilution. The TBN's are also borderline - I like to change oil at 2.0 or higher (yes even from Blackstone Labs). I'd cut back to a 10k change interval - and make sure the engines fully warmed up (~ 10 miles of driving), before you drive it hard.

TS

I just received this analysis back from Blackstone.
It's a 1.6 TDI in Germany and is the first oil change at 27k km (27,048 to be exact). I also posted this on another thread.
What may be the cause of the high fuel dilution?
Thanks!

TooSlick said:

Kiva,

Looks like you may be generating a fair amount of soot? I'd cut back to a 10k change interval simply for this reason, even though the oil isn't technically worn out in this case.

TS

Click to expand...

From previous discussions, it appears that is from short-tripping the car too much. Since my wife stopped working and w/ the young kids, we don't leave town as much. There are tanks on both our TDI's that are 95% city driving w/ the wagon getting 38mpg and the sedan 31.

We've had discussions about getting rid of the sedan, as it's hard to justify. However, for now, it's a car I enjoy driving and we'll see if a gasser presents itself that is more desirable.

Anyway, all that to say, if we keep short tripping, would you be sure to add the moly?

I will shorten the interval. Thanks for that.

matt

So that I don't have to plow thru all 166 pages of this thread, can I get a list of oil analysis firms that forumites have used and recommend, other than Blackstone? Thanks in advance...

I use CAT..$15 for a kit, including analysis.

Sorry, I should have also asked for links, if possible...I was looking at Dyson, highly recommended on truck sites, but very pricy....

for CAT, find a local dealer and just go in and buy a kit..

http://www.cat.com/cda/layout?m=403598&x=7

RNDDUDE said:

So that I don't have to plow thru all 166 pages of this thread, can I get a list of oil analysis firms that forumites have used and recommend, other than Blackstone? Thanks in advance...

Click to expand...

I like OAI ... the lab is actually Polaris.

OAI is private label for Amsoil, again via Polaris.

I feel they do the absolute best work for general retail UOAs.

Fuchs GT1 Pro C3 5w30 XTL

Hello everyone. I’m new to this forum, and for the beginning I want to post UOA of Fuchs GT1 Pro C3 5w30 XTL I sampled first at 86 km on oil only (to check residual metals after the previous oil – Fuchs LL III) and then on 5517 km. It’s the third oil in this engine.
I also posted it on BITOG, but nobody made any comments

Oil in use 5517 km / 3427.48 miles:
11 % on motorways with avg. speed ~ 87 mph
21 % country driving with avg. speed ~ 44 mph
68% city driving with avg. speed ~ 17.4 mph

Avg. fuel consumption for the 3427.48 miles distance: 31.2 mpg.

Iron is high, but I think it does not exceed the average for VW 1.9L PD engines with only 11 378 miles on unit (correct me if I’m wrong).
I had to add almost 1.5 qt, but about 0.3 qt went out in one day through the failed gasket between oil inlet and the valve cover (replaced the next day after it failed), so the ‘natural’ consumption is about 1.2 qt.



Interesting thing is that there’s more Calcium, Magnesium, Phosphorus and Zinc now then at the beginning of the OCI. I have a hypothesis why is it so, but I’m also curious what you guys think about it ?

VOA of this oil is here:

Thought I'd post my latest Oil Analysis, rather pleased with the results after 150K miles, 12ppm FE after 10K. The higher silicon is from the sealant used to R and R the oil pan. I am going to go to 15K oil changes now. Note I have been running a Amsoil bypass filter for the last 100k.

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/03_Golf_Oil_Report.pdf

Had 3 stuttering starts on separate occasions due to frozen intercooler issue this past winter on my CJAA, which happened in between my 1st and 2nd scheduled oil change (10k-20k miles). After having the intercooler TSB several months later, I recently sent my oil out for testing and here are my results. Can someone take a look and give me their opinion as applicable? I extracted the oil from the dipstick tube at 19200 miles while the engine was cold.

TooSlick said:

Dusting,

Your end of test viscosities and Cr/Fe levels (ring/cylinder and valve train wear), would indicate you may have marginally high fuel dilution. The TBN's are also borderline - I like to change oil at 2.0 or higher (yes even from Blackstone Labs). I'd cut back to a 10k change interval - and make sure the engines fully warmed up (~ 10 miles of driving), before you drive it hard.

TS

Click to expand...

Would engine braking and downshifting explain some of the increased wear?

I posted my 60k OA here:

[URL]http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3709948&postcount=2475[/URL]

a couple of pages back, but didn't get a response. It may have been a crummy image so I thought I would repost just the numbers in case it wasn't legible. I've got concern based on Blackstone's comments and would really appreciate feedback here. Note sample only has 10k on it, not 20k. I did not submit a sample at 50k.


Blackstone - We're concerned regarding the wear metals. High aluminum from the pistons, iron from steel parts like shafts and cylinders, and copper from brass or bronze parts. We're not sure whether the high wear could be an effect of the biodiesel use you've indicated, but this engine certainly isn't wearing as well as the last time we analized.



29k / 40.5k / 60k

Aluminum - 15 / 13 / 18
Chromium - 2 / 2 / 2
Iron - 48 / 46 / 78
Copper - 8 / 6 / 8
Lead - 1 / 2 / 0
Tin - 0 / 0 / 5
Molybdenum - 85 / 84 / 94
Nickel - 1 / 1 / 1
Manganese - 1 / 1 / 1
Silver - 0 / 0 / 0
Titanium - 0 / 0 / 0
Potassium - 40 / 23 / 20
Boron - 98 / 83 / 94
Silicon - 7 / 7 / 7
Sodium - 5 / 5 / 4
Calcium - 1139 / 980 / 1154
Magnesium - 8 / 6 / 9
Phosphorus - 752 / 684 / 782
Zinc - 961 / 815 / 945
Barium - 0 / 0 / 0
SUS Viscosity @210F - 65.2 / 61.6 / 61.7
cST Viscosity @100C - 11.67 / 10.66 / 10.71
Flashpoint - 450 / 450 / 440

First Oil change

2012 Golf TDI:
I didn't have a blackstone kit when the dealer did the change so they kept a small sample in a little container that they had laying about. I'm sure that container wasn't 100% clean. Also, the car regularly makes trips of 3 miles or less. It also makes a lot of 200+ mile trips.

I can't figure out how to upload the attachment at the moment, but the only things that worry me a bit are:

Iron: 60
Aluminum: 96
Copper: 77

5,443 miles.

Again, I'm not sure the container the oil was first collected in was clean... so I'll wait until the 10,000 when I have a clean sample to be upset.

Elfin,

A 5w-30 oil with low additive levels is not the optimum choice for the PD engines. What you're seeing here is moderately elevated camshaft/lifter and cam bearing wear, which tends to be progressive.

I'd try a thicker 5w-40 that meets the API, "CJ-4/SM" spec and you'll see these wear rates drop back down to normal. These have been showing even better results than the VW 505.01 oil that's Spec'ed for the PD engines.

TS

TheKnack said:

2012 Golf TDI:
I didn't have a blackstone kit when the dealer did the change so they kept a small sample in a little container that they had laying about. I'm sure that container wasn't 100% clean. Also, the car regularly makes trips of 3 miles or less. It also makes a lot of 200+ mile trips.
I can't figure out how to upload the attachment at the moment, but the only things that worry me a bit are:
Iron: 60
Aluminum: 96
Copper: 77
5,443 miles.
Again, I'm not sure the container the oil was first collected in was clean... so I'll wait until the 10,000 when I have a clean sample to be upset.

Click to expand...

Your car is early in the break-in phase. Those numbers are nothing to worry about.

I just took my first sample from my car tonight. 128k on it. Should be broken in by now.


Tim

Spike in Aluminum and Potassium

PAJettaTDI, I had the same spike in Aluminum and Potassium in my UOA after the intercooler kit installation. I think this is due to cleaning flux residue leftover from the manufacturing process.

TooSlick said:

Elfin,

A 5w-30 oil with low additive levels is not the optimum choice for the PD engines. What you're seeing here is moderately elevated camshaft/lifter and cam bearing wear, which tends to be progressive.

I'd try a thicker 5w-40 that meets the API, "CJ-4/SM" spec and you'll see these wear rates drop back down to normal. These have been showing even better results than the VW 505.01 oil that's Spec'ed for the PD engines.

TS

Click to expand...

Slick, I've got an '09 and have been using Mobile 1 ESP 5w-30 from the beginning.

Elfnmagik said:

I posted my 60k OA here:

[URL]http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3709948&postcount=2475[/URL]

a couple of pages back, but didn't get a response. It may have been a crummy image so I thought I would repost just the numbers in case it wasn't legible. I've got concern based on Blackstone's comments and would really appreciate feedback here. Note sample only has 10k on it, not 20k. I did not submit a sample at 50k.


Blackstone - We're concerned regarding the wear metals. High aluminum from the pistons, iron from steel parts like shafts and cylinders, and copper from brass or bronze parts. We're not sure whether the high wear could be an effect of the biodiesel use you've indicated, but this engine certainly isn't wearing as well as the last time we analized.



29k / 40.5k / 60k

Aluminum - 15 / 13 / 18
Chromium - 2 / 2 / 2
Iron - 48 / 46 / 78
Copper - 8 / 6 / 8
Lead - 1 / 2 / 0
Tin - 0 / 0 / 5
Molybdenum - 85 / 84 / 94
Nickel - 1 / 1 / 1
Manganese - 1 / 1 / 1
Silver - 0 / 0 / 0
Titanium - 0 / 0 / 0
Potassium - 40 / 23 / 20
Boron - 98 / 83 / 94
Silicon - 7 / 7 / 7
Sodium - 5 / 5 / 4
Calcium - 1139 / 980 / 1154
Magnesium - 8 / 6 / 9
Phosphorus - 752 / 684 / 782
Zinc - 961 / 815 / 945
Barium - 0 / 0 / 0
SUS Viscosity @210F - 65.2 / 61.6 / 61.7
cST Viscosity @100C - 11.67 / 10.66 / 10.71
Flashpoint - 450 / 450 / 440

Click to expand...

engine not wearing as well is not good. What BD blend are you using? You would have to be getting serious oil dilution if BD was the cause right?

Remember, their comment is based on them thinking that the last OA I sent them had 20k on it. Granted, the numbers still are what they are. The aluminum and iron concern me most, but I wanted to get an opinion here if it's really way out there for the mileage.

Unfortunately, I inadvertantly fueled with B20 (barely noticed lable) at Murphy for about 5-6 tanks before I noticed, and all the while adding a quart B100/6oz PS DFS.

Elfin,

If this is the 2.0L engine, the VW 507.00 oil is not the issue. Generally wear rates are affected by:

1) contamination from dirt/soot/fuel/coolant
2) the severity of the "duty cycle"
3) individual driving habits
4) fuel quality & overdosing with fuel additives

I'd consider your own situation and you can probably figure out the most likely root cause of the (slightly) elevated wear.

TS

See the last line from my post above. Just was wondering if others thought the bio could have accelerated this wear considering post combustion injections.

Elfin,

Your flashpoints are consistently high, so I doubt excessive fuel dilution is the issue...

TS