Which nozzles?

I have a 02 Jetta TDI. It started life as a auto but I converted it to a 5 speed. I am looking to get nozzles then a tune. IDparts states Bosio PowerPlus 357 are better for a auto and the Sprint 520s are better for manual. I am guessing I go with the 357's since the car was set up as a auto. Thank in advance for the comments.

BCKCX2 said:

I have a 02 Jetta TDI. It started life as a auto but I converted it to a 5 speed. I am looking to get nozzles then a tune. IDparts states Bosio PowerPlus 357 are better for a auto and the Sprint 520s are better for manual. I am guessing I go with the 357's since the car was set up as a auto. Thank in advance for the comments.

Click to expand...

No no no, 357's are for the auto tranny. You'll be selling yourself short with PP357s. Go Race 520s or PP764s. You have an 11mm high pressure fuel pump that can control larger nozzles better than a 10mm pump. Advantage is being able to get more fuel into the combustion chamber in a shorter window. This means less smoke. My car was an auto and I have the PP357s. Just the 357s and a tune will be a nice jump, but you'll be seriously limiting yourself. 357s arent much, if any, larger than your auto nozzles. I think they are both .184 sized holes. I've been in your shoes and my biggest regret is getting tiny 357 nozzles. Don't be worried about the large nozzles, your tuner can adjust them so they fuel only what you want.

DLC 520 with a Stage II flow, perfect for the auto and ZERO risk to the transmission.

Better flow that the older PP357 (faster) meaning better fuel economy but designed to to work with ULSD fuel unlike the obsolete Sprint 520 series due to the integration of DLC coatings.

Thank you for the insite!!

DBW missed the fact that the car is now a 5spd with 11mm pump. I would at least do pp520s or 764. Depends on your future plans.

Drivbiwire said:

DLC 520 with a Stage II flow, perfect for the auto and ZERO risk to the transmission.

Better flow that the older PP357 (faster) meaning better fuel economy but designed to to work with ULSD fuel unlike the obsolete Sprint 520 series due to the integration of DLC coatings.

Click to expand...

I would go with what he said. 520's are your best choice

I went with Sprint 520's and an RC2 tune for mine because I was worried about smoking and didn't want to overpower my stock clutch. In the future I will probably go bigger. I think it depends on your future plans. If you don't plan future turbo/clutch/breathing mods then I'm not sure you want to go to big. Also the main reason that I went with the Sprints was that Kerma was blowing them out cheap at the time. I think I only spent $140 bucks on them. I did the nozzles before getting tuned and there was a definite improvement in performance according to butt dyno.

Please note that I hardly have any idea what I'm talking about. I'd recommend chatting up your tuner about your current and future plans for modding the car before making a purchase.

Edit: Also note that there are multiple "520's". Sprint, Race and PP I think, but I don't know what the difference is.

VWDAVID said:

I would go with what he said. 520's are your best choice

Click to expand...

I totally disagree. Any nozzle that is a similar size to the 357 is too small. I mean, that's a hot-rodded stock-sized nozzle. Why bother? With a larger 11mm pump, you need to get larger nozzles. My 357s are maxed out and it isn't that much power. Get whatever, I just think you'll be disappointed eventually with anything that is similar to 357s. Although, I'm sure KERMA wont mind selling you nozzles twice. He recommended I go huge and let him tune it down. I chickened out and went 357. Big mistake. Its costing me $600 to upgrade now.

For max efficiency, you need to get as much fuel in the cc in the shortest injection window. Tiny nozzles like 357s don't take advantage of your high presure fuel pump.

Like I initially said, I think tiny nozzles will be selling yourself short. DBW and your tuner can set you up with a nozzle/tune combo that will give you maximum, smokeless power and excellent mpg. I refuse to believe this can be acheived with a stock-sized nozzle. If it can, I wouldn't be buying R520s. MPGs only go down if you use your right foot too much.

go R520's and proper tuning.
these cars are unbelievable in stock turbo mode and lots of fuel in the injection window.
I have tried sprint 520's PP520's PP764's and now R520's
wish i had saved all that money and did R520's.
done right this setup can't be beat, and i have less smoke that stock, no increase in EGT's
You will need a real clutch though.

I just got a Malone Tuning Stage 2 - Mark said to use " Bosch Titan 764 nozzles " What do you guys think?

EDIT : It is Bosch Titan 764 not Bosio. It was typed wrong and I copied it.

No such thing as bosio titans

Bosios? Yes

+1 on the PP 764's, even on a stock car they're great, I've got way more torque for accelerating up hill and pulling a big trailer with a couple of tons of wood. I also burn my mate off in his gt tdi lol. Can't wait to get the tune on there too, don't care if the clutch blows out the top of the box either. I've got a G60 flywheel lying about which will be fitted with the VR6 sachs kit soon enough anyway.

DBW just sent me a set of PP 764s. All I can say is WOW! With the stock tune, it is almost as good as my other bug with T-4 and Malone stage 2. Can't wait to get the Malone stage 2 in this car.
So... I have a car with bosio DLC 520, one with titan 520 and another with the T-4. The PP 764 is by far the most impressive. The best part is the lack of black smoke. My IQ is set at 4.2 and I only get a light haze.
Thanks Pete!

Thanks again Boertje, Seatman would probably tell you "Told ya so"

Just as a reference you got the PP764 with a Stage I flow.

With the timing advanced and the IQ where it's at you should be safe with the stock clutch. The timing is part of the equation, it shifts the peak torque to a higher rpm thus reducing or eliminating the chance of exceeding the clamp force of the pressure plate. Also, you may want to increase the IQ a bit again just to lower the peak torque which is why I tell folks to start out around 5.5 (lowers output, nets further fuel economy gains).

Fuel economy with that setting because you are working with stock boost pressures (no chip) will get you almost the full benefit in terms of fuel efficiency (we can go about 2 stages further on fuel economy), rapid delivery but limited peak flow, nets you far better fuel economy than a lower flow nozzle and greatly reduced smoke output.

Enjoy!

I've got Malone stage 2 on the way and a 6 speed setup too. We'll see what happens when all of this stuff is installed to see if further tweaks are needed.

Was thinking of going with the vw oem titan 764 nozzles, I have 11mm pump and vnt15. What level tune should I get? Was planning on going with tdtuning since I'll be driving through Vegas its a convenience factor. Would the titan be pretty much the same as the Bosio PP764 nozzles?

Texas_sky said:

Was thinking of going with the vw oem titan 764 nozzles, I have 11mm pump and vnt15. What level tune should I get? Was planning on going with tdtuning since I'll be driving through Vegas its a convenience factor. Would the titan be pretty much the same as the Bosio PP764 nozzles?

Click to expand...

No, the Titan 764 is an "OEM" flow nozzle, it flows about 3% more than stock Bosch 90hp nozzle (.184) despite the Titans larger .234 holes.

In contrast A Bosio Sprint 357 flows 4% more than the Titan 764 and 6% more than a stock Bosch nozzle, this is considered to be a 110HP replacement nozzle, but thats about it as far as power goes.

The Bosio Power Plus 764 (my preferred nozzle for this particular application) would flow 53% more than stock, and 50% more than the Titan 764 "OEM" nozzle. The PowerPlus 764 will support in excess of 200hp with complimenting hardware (turbo, pump, intake etc).

With the Bosio PowerPlus 764 you get the other benefit of a DLC coating. This allows faster needle response, a 5 year unlimited mileage warranty and the ability to purchase a single nozzle with an extremely large range of performance options that eliminates the need to purchase a different nozzle later on.

With the Bosio PowerPlus 764 we prefer to reduce the flow and shift the flow characteristics so that you get trade peak flow for faster delivery but limit the peak flow so that you don't over fuel. Fuel flow limits can be increased or decreased at any time during the life of the nozzle, this is a simple adjustment on our end and includes a quick cleaning of the nozzles. The benefit is superior power, best possible fuel economy, Smoke (opacity) of approx 3-4. Without a tune, you can still use the original clutch and turbo, a tune will simply enhance it further and the sky is the limit (limited by hardware in this case).

FWIW, a tuner cannot control the injectors, only the pump. This is why it is VERY critical to have the injectors set correctly otherwise you will have smoking and poor fuel economy. I see it as making the injector work in harmony with the tuner, this applies regardless of what tuner you use.

With an 11mm pump you can bump the flow a bit higher and net more power because of the higher peak pressure of the 11mm. This can't over-ride the peak flow limit of the nozzle however it can produce more fuel pressure at lower rpms thus the greater performance across the power band.

All of our flow data is based on actual production nozzles tested on a high speed digital nozzle flow bench using the Bosch testing methods for flow evaluation. We have just about every nozzle in the database for easy comparison. We plot all nozzle characteristics, flow build up (SOI), peak flow and End of injection (EOI) characteristics. Also we can evaluate cavitation effects which allow a comparison as to how stable the flow is under peak delivery conditions.

Pete, the PP 764 and the Malone stage 2 dyn EGR...what a combo. This combo out does my 2000 golf with Titan 520 and 11mm pump also with a malone stage 2 tune with ease with much less smoke too. Just drove it 500 miles today in all kinds of conditions. The engine just wants to run and it takes whatever I have thrown at it with ease.