Cetane Number - Can it be too high?

fgbrault said:

I'm using Shell and I''m very pleased with it. I can get it a a decent price, but I do wonder if I could do as well using a cheaper diesel fuel. I am paying $2.45 a gallon for Shell (which is low in Connecticut), but can buy diesel as low as $2.35.

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I have been using Shell too at $2.45 (2:49 credit) and also have been pleased with it. I am trying my first tank of Valero at $2.39 (cash or credit - credit for me as I get a 5% rebate). It was only $2.35 a week or so ago. I have just over 200 miles and so far I can't tell the difference in terms of performance. Also, I seem to be getting at least as many MPGs, but it is too soon to tell for sure.

Coming up I95 today, I stopped at a Shell in VA that had premium diesel and the pump had a 40 cetane sticker on it.

Highker said:

For example, earlier I looked up the Arco website which stated that their ULSD has a 57 cetane rating.

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57!?!? are you sure it wasn't 47? got a link for that, too?

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&num=100&q=cetane+site%3Aarco.com&aq=f&oq=arco+cetane&aqi=&aq=f&oq=&aqi=&fp=Ds88doP2L4Q

Sip'n Diesel said:

57!?!? are you sure it wasn't 47? got a link for that, too?

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&num=100&q=cetane+site%3Aarco.com&aq=f&oq=arco+cetane&aqi=&aq=f&oq=&aqi=&fp=Ds88doP2L4Q

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Oops. The article I looked at also talked about Arco's EC-Diesel which has the 57 cetane rating, so I don't know about their ULSD:
http://www.dieselnet.com/news/1999/12arco.php

Highker said:

Oops. The article I looked at also talked about Arco's EC-Diesel which has the 57 cetane rating, so I don't know about their ULSD:
http://www.dieselnet.com/news/1999/12arco.php

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That article is from 1999.

Bill

Hey like I said if you want high......mine is a 63 or better cetane number

Wonder what cetane Mobil usually is, I tried emailing them but I never got a response.

hyperfuels said:

Hey like I said if you want high......mine is a 63 or better cetane number

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I like the idea, but from looking at that site a 55gal drum comes out to over $7 a gallon before you even add in the shipping charges. Great fuel I am sure, but not exactly affordable.

not cheap....but it is a race fuel.

Give me a call and i can work out a great price for you

syndiesel 5%

hyperfuels said:

not cheap....but it is a race fuel.
Give me a call and i can work out a great price for you

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Volkswagen's Jetta TDI Cup series
Round 5
July 24 – 26 - Autobahn Country Club - Joliet, IL (with Speed World Challenge/Atlantics)
.
.Are you still supplying the fuel for the racers?
.
I have a 2009 JSW TDI. If I should just happen to run out of fuel in the parking lot of the Autobahn Country Club, do you think you'll have some extra fuel for me so that I can make it home safely? Can I bring friends?
.
According to an article in autobloggreen 02/26/2009 Jetta TDI cup to run on B5-biodiesel/

Volkswagen will be filling the tanks of the Jettas with B5 biodiesel. Houston, Texas-based Hyperfuels will be supplying the 5 percent biofuel blend for the cars which will consume about two tankfuls of fuel over the course of 10 races. The Syndiesel supplied by Hyperfuels has a 10 year shelf life addressing one of the biggest issues with some biodiesels, the tendency to go rancid after a period of time in storage. Volkswagen has approved B5 for use in all regular production diesel VW and Audi models.

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Hey Hyperfuels! I now have my tickets to the Jetta TDI Cup race this coming Sunday (26th). I'll probably have enough fuel left to just make it to the Autobahn Country Club....I may need some fuel to make it home. Black JSW TDI with hood up. I'll also be wearing a Jetta TDI Cup race cap with the number 17 on the side.

Does it sound like I'm begging? Answer: Hell yes! This is now my FOURTH post where I've mentioned your name. Maybe you'll have an extra 5 gallon pail just laying around after the race?

The article seems to mix up biofuel and syndiesel. I wasn't aware syndiesel was biofuel per se.

Is Syndiesel B5, synthetic diesel fuel considered biodiesel?

Lightflyer1 said:

The article seems to mix up biofuel and syndiesel. I wasn't aware syndiesel was biofuel per se.

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I see what you mean.

"We are extremely pleased to have HYPERFUELS as a partner for the 2009 Jetta TDI Cup series. SynDiesel® B5 biodiesel has been fully approved for use in all Volkswagen TDI powered vehicles that are available at local Volkswagen dealerships today," said Clark Campbell, Motorsport Manager, Volkswagen of America, Inc. "

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I looked at hiperfuels website. They sell syndiesel B5 and biodiesel as two distinctly different products. The syndiesel B5 is "our own personal blend of 95% Syndiesel and 5% of our Canola based Biodiesel" Their BioDiesel is "pure canola based biodiesel (B100)"
So I guess that the B5 Syndiesel would qualify as bioblended synthetic diesel. But not a 'petro' diesel bioblend?
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Interesting....My hope would be that this synthetic diesel would somehow 1) actually be or qualify as a 'renewable' fuel, 2) be able to be produced at a reasonable cost AND 3) not have any detrimental consequences to my CR engine or exhaust system. Someone, please make this a reality for us ..soon.

FWIW, Please don't get the impression from my signature that I am "anti bio". Rather, I wish we could get bioblended petro diesel for our new TDI's. But, here in Illinois (because of well meaning state tax incentives) they strongly market B11 to the exclusion of anything else which we could use as fuel in our 2009 TDI's. That's why I dream of the day a reasonably priced synthetic diesel or bioblended product could be available to us.

I thought the syndiesel was from gas or coal. From what specs I have read about it is high grade fuel compared to pump fuel. Cost and shipping prohibitive, not for everyday use.

fgbrault said:

I have read that "There is no benefit to using a higher cetane number fuel than is specified by the engine's manufacturer". I have also read that using a very high Cetane number fuel may cause ignition that is too short causing power loss and other problems and that while the problems caused by too low a Cetane number tend to disappear when the engine heats up, the problems from too high a Cetane number persist, even after warm-up. Does anyone know the Cetane number that the 2009 Jetta TDI (USA version) is designed for?

Any thoughts?

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This entire thread has degenerated into a bunch of "my cetane is better than yours".

The OP's has a statement and links to an article that supports his first statement:

"There is no benefit to using a higher cetane number fuel than is specified by the engine's manufacturer"

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And this is confirmed in the link:

fgbrault said:

Here is the article (PDF). It was definitely Cetane.

The Importance of Cetane Number in Diesel Fuel

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But I could not find ANYTHING about

fgbrault said:

using a very high Cetane number fuel may cause ignition that is too short causing power loss and other problems and that while the problems caused by too low a Cetane number tend to disappear when the engine heats up,

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So what I read here is a "the sky is falling" threat or WMD.

We all know higher cetane or octane (depending on what the engine burns) is useless.

But reading the entire thread I see nothing found out about higher cetane being bad.

Now I believe over in the fuel forum this was discussed and that higher cetane was good. However in my area most pumps are labeled with the minimum cetane rating (40?) and only 1 or 2 are labeled higher.

My concern is that there may be a problem if I get a tank of the good stuff.

newbury said:

We all know higher cetane or octane (depending on what the engine burns) is useless.

But reading the entire thread I see nothing found out about higher cetane being bad.

Now I believe over in the fuel forum this was discussed and that higher cetane was good. However in my area most pumps are labeled with the minimum cetane rating (40?) and only 1 or 2 are labeled higher.

My concern is that there may be a problem if I get a tank of the good stuff.

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Newbury...I talked with Jess Hewitt, owner and CEO of Hyperfuels and I asked him what would happen if I put his 63 cetane syndiesel into my 2009 Jetta TDI. He said that his B5 syndiesel was 63 cetane racing fuel. He said that it would not harm my TDI in any way. I would experience great performance and mileage but that my stock TDI would only really be benefiting from (the first) 50 cetane. Above that there was really no benefit to my daily driver, stock TDI. If I wanted a dependable race fuel then spend the $, else not. I can't remember exactly but I think (75% certain) that he told me that something around 47 cetane would be a good number for my TDI.

I also asked him if the 40 cetane stuff I was buying was harming the engine. His response was no, hard to hurt a diesel engine, but I wouldn't get the good performance and mileage that my TDI was designed for. I asked about cetane boost additive and he said that his company does sell one that could be used. .....whether or not I cared to add it in was totally up to me.

The guys at hyperfuels were extremely nice, responsive and frank. Why don't you try sending them an email jhewitt@syndiesel.com with your questions. I know that Mr Hewitt is in Chicago (Joliet) at the Jetta TDI Cup races this weekend so you might not hear back right away or PM 'hyperfuels' in this forum.

Higher cetane fuels have been shown on the dyno to make more power at mid and high revs. This was with a non-stock ECU though.