If I lift 2", really, what's needed?

JMan

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Sep 27, 2005
Location
Fort Collins, CO
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Jetta '03TDI Silver, Jetta '01 TDI Black
mr.mindless said:
the 1.8t wagon springs I have are 2pink + 1purple and 3blue. I dont know what year car they are out of. I got hem hoping for a bit of extra height but have not yet tested even the rears.

If shipping could be covered I'd volunteer their use.
I appreciate the offer! However, I think that I need to find a coil with the exact paint code match to mine. As I don't have the magic decoder ring for the paint codes, it's hard to say how close in characteristics various coils are. Kevin @Coilsprings.com made it very clear that he needs an exact match otherwise there's no guarantees that he can provide a replacement with the desired lift and ride characteristics.

However, if you wanted custom coils, you could send him yours and get whatever you wanted. I think he was quoting me around $200 for the front end replacement set.

-Jeremy
 

mel72349

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Aug 4, 2006
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Randallstown, MD
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2006 New Beetle manual
mr.mindless said:
is there something inherent with the MN lift that limits droop that a longer coil would circumvent? I can't imagine a solution that would result in that, and I thought it was just a spacer that effectively makes the coil taller at static height, but pictures of those lifts are famously absent...
I'm no expert, but lift blocks are not the same as taller coils. The 2" of block lift does not compress as 2" of longer coil would. The blocks give a higher ride height but do not increase suspension travel.
 

mr.mindless

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Jan 23, 2006
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Rochester, NY
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2002 Galactic Blue Jetta GLS
you would be absolutely right if the spring was the limiting factor in travel - but as with most suspensions the damper (strut in the front of our cars) is our limiting factor.
 

Paul @ RP Spec

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Sep 20, 1999
Location
60 mi West of Chicago
TDI
2K Bug, Yellow, 5 speed
Taxi Springs

Back in the dim dark recesses of the past, circa 2K, someone did a very servicable lift using what were called Taxi springs from VW. Also around the same time there were several posts with color code matchings for springs, and maybe spring rates. Having moved to the boons, I of course, returned to Fred's for info on raising our 2K NB. It's good to see this is still an issue, but sure to be resolved by the brain trust. Oh, there may have been a shock recomendation as well to cover the longer travel.

Paul
 

B100

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Location
Berkeley, Eastbania
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2003 Golf
Well, MetalNerd won't sell his lift kits (blocks for use with stock springs) for cars with ESP. What other lift options are available that are compatible with ESP? :confused:
 

Mr. Annoying

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Apr 14, 2007
Location
Norwalk Conn
TDI
I gotta jetta wagon
Be very carful how you lift your cars I have an Audi A4 and left the spring retainer clip (strut can be used w/ lower springs for same ride height) in the heighest position it sat higher by about 2" but the constant topping blew the seal now I have 3 gas pressure shocks and 1 nonpressure shock
as for the spring spacers they are fine for experimentation but useing them in this manner is a bit dangerous they do come out and they do move they are a bad idea for cars in general longer springs are not right unless you gat longer struts trust me you will damage your struts/shocks if you do not lift it correctly (check your travel)
I have seen some real mightmares in the 4X4 world lets not join them:)
 

JMan

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Joined
Sep 27, 2005
Location
Fort Collins, CO
TDI
Jetta '03TDI Silver, Jetta '01 TDI Black
Pics!

mr.mindless said:
is there something inherent with the MN lift that limits droop that a longer coil would circumvent? I can't imagine a solution that would result in that, and I thought it was just a spacer that effectively makes the coil taller at static height, but pictures of those lifts are famously absent...
Here's some pics of the spacer installed. I borrowed these from the installation guide for the 2" Metalnerd kit (photo credit goes to Chuck @Metalnerd) -- once installed the front spacer is at the top of the strut and is covered by a rubber boot.
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And here's a picture of my front coil spring with the paint codes. Would LOVE to find one of these if anyone has one laying around ....
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-Jeremy
 

Joe Fisher

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Joined
Oct 27, 2002
Location
Kalispell, MT
TDI
NA
I followed HermTDI's advice and bought some Bilstein TC's, but not the VR6. I'm just waiting to get them intalled...along with a metalnerd lift kit, DG oil bypass kit, Cat 2 Micron filter, and some other bits and pieces.

Bora_Bora said:
Will the Bilstein TC VR6 set work with the MetalNerd 2" lift? I was considering ordering these from tdiparts.com Anyone with the VR6 TC and 2" lift have any comments about the handling?
 

Dustar

Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2007
Location
Dallas
TDI
2006 Golf
To sum it up

I have enjoyed reading this post and am at the point where a good lift is in order. The vehicle in quesiton is a 2006 Golf without ESP. After reading this thread it appears that all I need are some VR6 Bilstein TCs and send my springs to Kansas for the other two inches. What about the back springs? This thread is awesome!
 

JMan

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Joined
Sep 27, 2005
Location
Fort Collins, CO
TDI
Jetta '03TDI Silver, Jetta '01 TDI Black
Dustar said:
I have enjoyed reading this post and am at the point where a good lift is in order. The vehicle in quesiton is a 2006 Golf without ESP. After reading this thread it appears that all I need are some VR6 Bilstein TCs and send my springs to Kansas for the other two inches. What about the back springs? This thread is awesome!
Check the paint codes on your back springs. If they are different than the front ones I would imagine you'd have to send them in as well. What shop in Kansas are you getting your springs from?
 

mr.mindless

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Jan 23, 2006
Location
Rochester, NY
TDI
2002 Galactic Blue Jetta GLS
I don't think there is any overlap in paint codes between fronts and rears. they are completely different springs, anyway.
 

JungleDeath

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Aug 27, 2005
Location
Reno, NV, USA
TDI
00 Golf_11 JSW
Bora_Bora said:
Will the Bilstein TC VR6 set work with the MetalNerd 2" lift? I was considering ordering these from tdiparts.com Anyone with the VR6 TC and 2" lift have any comments about the handling?
I had some new tires put on our Golf yesterday. 205/65-15 Sumitomo htr h4. Nice on and off road performance so far. I drove straight to the dirt from the shop.

I have my front swaybar disconnected. Off road it is great. On road handling has changed enough that I don't like it with the new taller sidewall. I have stock springs with black TC'c. I like the ride quality as is. Just firm enough, front and rear. If you don't mind a firmer ride, I would go with VR6 springs. Maybe front only?
I will hook my fsb back up and report back later today.

edit-5:40 pst: On road handling feels as before the wheel change; very nice.
I think I am going to try some fsb quick disconnecter's.




:)
 
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mr.mindless

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Location
Rochester, NY
TDI
2002 Galactic Blue Jetta GLS
I think stock length Jeep TJ discos would work with our FSB. I have not checked it yet but it's got to be close even though they are an inch or two longer.

I've considered the same thing for autocross: keeping weight on the inside front really helps, and a stiff rear helps the car from making too quick a transition. That is not a feel I like for high speed expressway emergency maneuvers though, so for daily use I koop my front sway hooked up.

For more on this topic - at length - check out this topic

On a side note, I put my Atlas skid plate on late last week. It seems to have eaten what feels like an inch of clearance but at least I know I'm scraping something that's not backed up by my draing plug or motor mount (I had holes worn on my plastic pan at both the forward motor mount bolt and oil drian plug). It's a little disconcerting to be rubbing ground when I don't expect to, so I'm looking forward to my snow tires. It's finally gotting cold enough to be thinking of swapping. I had frost this morning.
 

mr.mindless

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Location
Rochester, NY
TDI
2002 Galactic Blue Jetta GLS
I got my snows on last night - Blizzak 225/60r16s. The ones I have the clearance pictures of a few pages back.

After putting about 40 miles on them last night I could not be happier with them, but there are a few rub issues that are worse than I thought: in the right rear wheel well there is a bulge in near the filler neck. I'm rubbing on that hard enough that I'm just looking for a replacement to massage, since I already rubbed part through mine. I also have a bit of rub at the mounting point forward of the strut in \0the driver's wheel well and some rub at the rear of the passenger wheel well. those are minor rub areas that I'm not going to worry about.

I'll post some pictures as soon as I can borrow a decent camera, I'm not going to bother with cameraphone pics.

Again, this is on stock Beetly steelies.

EDIT: fixed the tire size. 225/60r16 Blizak Revo1
 
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JungleDeath

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00 Golf_11 JSW
mr.mindless said:
I got my snows on last night - Blizzak 225/50r16s. The ones I have the clearance pictures of a few pages back.

After putting about 40 miles on them last night I could not be happier with them, but there are a few rub issues that are worse than I thought: in the right rear wheel well there is a bulge in near the filler neck. I'm rubbing on that hard enough that I'm just looking for a replacement to massage, since I already rubbed part through mine. I also have a bit of rub at the mounting point forward of the strut in \0the driver's wheel well and some rub at the rear of the passenger wheel well. those are minor rub areas that I'm not going to worry about.

I'll post some pictures as soon as I can borrow a decent camera, I'm not going to bother with cameraphone pics.

Again, this is on stock Beetly steelies.
Can you measure from ground to wheel well lip (highest point of wheel well)?
A week after my tire install I'm at an avg. 69cm in the front. It would be nice to get it above 70cm's then a skid plate (yes, I don't have a skid plate).
Thanks. :)
 

mr.mindless

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Rochester, NY
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2002 Galactic Blue Jetta GLS
I don't have a flat parking area at home to measure my clearance, but having just put on a skid plate and having been less than pleased at the loss of clearance on stock tires I'm quite happy with my lack of ground scraping after putting the larger tires on.

In spite of my lack of measurements I do have some additional info from today. I just ran a rallycross*, and offroad at speed, I did catch my driver's front fender once (page 4 notation on fit updated). I did not break the paint but it caught pretty badly. I rolled the lips on both sides real quickly between laps with my multitool and subsequently removed a bit more of the shoulder tread of the tire on the fender lip - I removed some shaved pieces of the tread from the lip. I also rubbed *through* the top of the driver's fender liner today. Just like the passenger rear having an extra bulge inward, the driver front has less upward clearance than the passenger. There is sheetmetal right behind the liner there that I'm rubbing now, so that will take more than just some heat and massaging. I have contact on both sides on the inner fender to the inside of the tire fore and aft as well. With the rolled fenders, rub on the metal wheel arch continued, but seemed not to be a major issue.

I would NOT suggest anyone to go and run 225/60r16s (60s not 50s. I'll edit my earlier typo) unless they will either drive gently or accept some serious rubbing at full compression and possible body damage from full compression while steering. Personally I'm happy with it, and I'm not going back. A same-diameter tire that's narrower would not suffer the same issues. This gives me worries on the 245/45r18s, but I'm liking the 205 or 215 Grabbers from that earlier post......

In my opinion, the ultimate setup would be a 1"-2" lift with these tires - but with slightly less available compression and ideally more droop for longer overall travel. Today's racing has redoubled my motivation to find a longer set of struts to run a taller/longer spring on. maybe coilovers would be where to look instead? Everything targetted at our cars is for slamming them, but perhaps the right parts from those parts can be swapped to longer bodies? With a nice side effect of a LOT of tunability from spring rate selection and valving changes. I'm liking that idea.

*rallycross: rally meets autocross. roughly 1:30 laps, mainly in second gear pushing redline, roughish dirt track. I beat the living snot out of my car today, Subaru style. For the record, it is asking for more :)
 

JungleDeath

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Location
Reno, NV, USA
TDI
00 Golf_11 JSW
Quoted from Peter Pyce:
With 2" lift you are killing (literally) 2" of rebound travel, leaving close to nothing for the damper, especially if you are going to use aftermarket units that are usually even shorter than OE. To make things even worse, you are working on a Wagon, which already (in stock form) has longer dampers than the Sedans - so, by simply mounting any aftermarket damper on your stock ride Wagon, you are compromising! By lifting 2" and using aftermarket damper, you are compromising even more. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=136874&page=2&highlight=TDI+Wagon+SUV

So, the way I read this is Jetta Wagons have longer stroke dampers? Do these fit our A4's? I would do a 1" lift and these dampers.
 

JungleDeath

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rallysmurf said:
so is there a strut you can buy that just has more travel than stock?
I don't know. But I want to find out. I'm so busy with work...I would like to call TDi Parts and talk to the owner to find out.

I think it would be nice to get more travel in the strut to make up for a 1" lift kit.

Anyone else?
 

B100

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Berkeley, Eastbania
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2003 Golf
Metalnerd won't sell to owners with ESP. Has anyone lifted a car with ESP, and can they confirm presence or absence of problems with ESP afterwards? Thanks.
 

mr.mindless

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Rochester, NY
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2002 Galactic Blue Jetta GLS
Peter did not know of any when last I asked him.

I want to get ahold of a paper or electronic catalogue from Koni, Bilstein, and whoever else that makes struts for our cars and cross reference lengths with the other dimensions. I have not had a chance to do it myself and last time I asked Peter he did not have anything availible at that time and was (as always) extremely busy and it probably slipped his mind to ask his rep.

That's the best avenue for us to chase, and it's what I want to do.
 

adamek

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Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Location
Sharon, MA
TDI
2002 VW TDI Beetle, 2012 VW Jetta SportWagen TDI
My plan

OK, I've got a 2002 New Beetle TDI that I bought last April, 69k miles then, 88k miles now. I had Chris Hill (MrChill) replace the timing belt at 80k.

When MrChill replaced the timing belt he commented that I needed new struts and maybe a lift kit sometime soon. The skirt under the engine had some wear and tear. One of the skirt mounting points was worn totally away. I know I've scraped the road three or four times. Twice on dirt driveways the first few weeks I had the car and hadn't learned the clearance yet. A few more times on the road to my parents' camp. It's a paved road but in very bad maintenance. (It's the only road to Lakeville, Maine. The first two miles are in Springfield, but there are only half a dozen Springfield residents on the road. Lakeville has cited the state consititution that says every town is entitled access to one state highway route. Maine Highway tells Springfield that they will take over maintenance of the road, but first it must be improved to state highway standards. Springfield town meeting says "Screw Lakeville, we're not spending our tax dollars on that road". Meanwhile the road gets worse and worse and the Lakeville selectmen keep shovels and buckets of patchcoat in their pickups.)

Anyway, I'm putting together my shopping list for my next major maintenance upgrade. I don't want to offroad or run rallys, but I do want to be able to drive carefully on fairly rough driveways or poorly maintained roads without worrying about my oil pan.

One more clearance/usage concern. I'm thinking about getting a trailer hitch and a canoe trailer. Does anyone on this list have a trailer hitch and if so have they had any problems with scraping it? The hitches are fairly rugged, I'm more concerned about stressing the body at the hitch mounting points.

Anyways, here's my current shopping list:

"Panzer Plate" http://www.dieselgeek.com/servlet/Detail?no=363 $275
Bilstein TC set for A4, regular springs http://www.tdiparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=36_63&products_id=414 $249

Lift Kit http://www.metalnerd.com/cat09.htm 1", $250 or 2", $300

I'm not worried about the $50 difference between 1" and 2". I'm more worried about the travel limits in the struts. One last question, from anyone who's done the 2" lift. Have you noticed any change in fuel mileage? I'd expect a drop, but how much?
 
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lrpavlo

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Cocoa FL
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09 Sportwagen DSG, 02 NB Auto
For a NB I'd definately recommend 2". All 4 Beetles in my immediate family (including a 2006) are lifted 2". All the A4 Jetta's and Golfs are lifted 1.5".

I can't speak to fuel economy loss, as I lifted, chipped and injectored mine almost immediately after picking it up.

I'd 2nd the skid plate too....in MI we don't have the best roads and you don't see many beetles with a front facia intact or a plastic skid plate intact!

IMHO adding a lift makes trailer towing soooo much easier as the trailer is now more level!....Also note I've carried a 18' cedar strip bardiarka on the roof of my beetle....looks funny but hey!!
 

mel72349

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Randallstown, MD
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2006 New Beetle manual
lrpavlo said:
All 4 Beetles in my immediate family (including a 2006) are lifted 2".
B100 posted "Metalnerd won't sell to owners with ESP. Has anyone lifted a car with ESP, and can they confirm presence or absence of problems with ESP afterwards?"

So just how did you do the lift on your 2k6?
 

lrpavlo

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Cocoa FL
TDI
09 Sportwagen DSG, 02 NB Auto
mel72349 said:
B100 posted "Metalnerd won't sell to owners with ESP. Has anyone lifted a car with ESP, and can they confirm presence or absence of problems with ESP afterwards?"

So just how did you do the lift on your 2k6?
Don't know if the 2006 has ESP.

Lift is the same on all the A4's....spacers on top of struts and on top of rear shocks plus a a 2" block under the spring. My brother was tickled to death with it as he was towing a load of wood from Superior WI back to Waukesha WI.
This kit was from the guy that originally started making them...Can't remember his name but he lived in Colorado.
MetalNerd kits are very, very nice....I put one of his test kits on my son's Golf but have since sold it to my other brother in Superior....now has over 250K miles!
 

B100

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Berkeley, Eastbania
TDI
2003 Golf
lrpavlo said:
Don't know if the 2006 has ESP.
I don't think ESP is yet standard on VWs. It was an option when I ordered my Golf in 2003. The dealer just scratched his head, wondering why someone would want ESP and not want a sunroof... not to mention have no interest in a four-door or an Automatic.

:D

But, I would dearly love to lift the Golf. There must be a way, that's compatible with ESP, or that would require minor adjustments.
 

mr.mindless

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Jan 23, 2006
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Rochester, NY
TDI
2002 Galactic Blue Jetta GLS
B100 said:
There must be a way, that's compatible with ESP, or that would require minor adjustments.
depending on how the suspension height is measured for you might be able to compensate for it, but the vehicle dynamics are going to be changed and it's going to screw with the ESP's efforts to save your poorly driving arse when needed.

I would not lift a vehicle with any sort of stability control without disabling it.
 

adamek

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Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Location
Sharon, MA
TDI
2002 VW TDI Beetle, 2012 VW Jetta SportWagen TDI
I had my one inch lift and new Bilstein TC struts installed yesterday, along with a Dieselgeek Panzer Plate skidplate. All of the installation done by MrChill.
 
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