Yes I can easily do a seamless back window on just about any car out there including a NB. My golf was built in 99 and is titled a 2000.dieseldorf said:That rule must be unique to FL as it does not apply to the other 49 states. WJ, I'd like you to confirm that. Thanks.
Scott, more importantly, can you do a perfect, seamless back window
Last production of tdis
- Thread starter KROUT
- Start date
I did not say that at all. It has nothing to do with when it was registered or bought. I can show you the production date of my personal car it says 99 and my title says 2000.dieseldorf said:Thanks, WJ, we appreciate the effort.
You understand that the KROUT is suggesting the car can change model years based upon when it's actually titled/registered, right?
dieseldorf
Top Post Dawg
Maybe you'll re-state the point of this thread and your contention.KROUT said:
The manufacturer has some latitude in declaring what model year a car is. My '00 Jetta was built in Nov 1999. So what? My 1999MY MBz was built 10/98. So what? Production date DOES NOT dictate model year.
I guess if you're totally hung up on this, you should start reading VINs. That's the most direct way of addressing your concern.
dieseldorf
Top Post Dawg
The Vehicle Identification Number was originally described in ISO Standard 3779 in February 1977 and last revised in 1983. The ISO-VIN was designed to identify motor vehicles, trailers, motorcycles and mopeds and consists of three sections:
The same applies to the use of a factory code. When a manufacturer uses a factory or plant code, ISO recommends that the 11th position of the VIN is used. In the VIN-code, capital letters A through Z and numbers 1 through 0 may be used, except the letters I, O and Q for obvious reasons. No signs or spaces are allowed in the VIN.
Other systems.
The European Union has issued a directive to the effect that a VIN must be used for all road vehicles in the EU member states. This directive complies with the ISO Standard but a year digit or factory code is not mandatory. Also, it is left to the choice of the manufacturer whether the VDS is actually used for vehicle attributes or not. The system only applies to motor powered vehicles with at least four wheels capable of speed above 25 km/h and trailers.
- WMI - World Manufacturer Identifier, which uniquely identifies the maker of the vehicle. It occupies the first three positions of the VIN, except when a manufacturer builds less than 500 vehicles per year, in which case the third digit is always a 9 and the 12th, 13th and 14th position of the VIN are used for the second part of the WMI. The WMI is described in ISO 3780.
- VDS - Vehicle Descriptor Section. These 6 characters occupy positions 4 through 9 of the VIN and may be used by the manufacturer to identify attributes of the vehicle.
- VIS - Vehicle Identifier Section. The last 8 characters of the VIN are used for the identification a of specific vehicle. The last four characters shall always be numeric.
The same applies to the use of a factory code. When a manufacturer uses a factory or plant code, ISO recommends that the 11th position of the VIN is used. In the VIN-code, capital letters A through Z and numbers 1 through 0 may be used, except the letters I, O and Q for obvious reasons. No signs or spaces are allowed in the VIN.
Other systems.
The European Union has issued a directive to the effect that a VIN must be used for all road vehicles in the EU member states. This directive complies with the ISO Standard but a year digit or factory code is not mandatory. Also, it is left to the choice of the manufacturer whether the VDS is actually used for vehicle attributes or not. The system only applies to motor powered vehicles with at least four wheels capable of speed above 25 km/h and trailers.
In North America, a system is used that is far more stringent than the ISO Standards but is, to use a computer phrase, downward compatible. Here, the VIN is divided in four sections:
- The first three characters shall uniquely identify the manufacturer, make and type of vehicle (with the same exception of manufacterers that produce less than 500 vehicles). Effectively, this is the WMI. There are indeed examples of manufacturers who have more than one WMI that use the third character as a code for a vehicle category (for instance bus or truck). Just as often however this is not the case;
- The second section consists of five characters (VIN positions 4-8) and identify the attributes of the vehicle. For each type of vehicle (passenger cars, MPV's, trucks, buses, trailers, motorcycles, incomplete vehicles other than trailers), different information is required. For cars, MPV's and light trucks it is required that the first two characters of this section are alphabetic, the third and fourth shall be numeric and the fifth alphanumeric. This section is the VDS in ISO 3779 but there it comprises another position of the VIN;
- The third section consist of one character which is the check digit, calculated over the other 16 characters of the VIN. This character can be numeric or the letter X;
- The fourth section consists of eight characters on positions 10-17 of the VIN. The last five shall be numeric for cars, MPV's and light trucks and the last four shall be numeric for all other vehicles. The first character represents the vehicle model year, the second character representents the plant of manufacture. The third through eighth characters are a sequential production number (for manufacturers producing more than 500 vehicles per year). For other manufacturers, the sixth, seventh and eight position represent the sequential production number. This section confirms to the VIS in ISO 3779.
dieseldorf
Top Post Dawg
GoFaster
Moderator at Large
This is not true.KROUT said:
The only restriction on vehicle manufacturers claiming what model year a car is, is that there can only be one January 1st in a model year and the model year has to be "that" January 1st. So, if they wanted to, they could start producing 2008 models on January 2nd 2007, carry that through January 1st 2008, and through until December 31 2008. This goes by date of final assembly of the vehicle.
dieseldorf
Top Post Dawg
June 19, 2006
To: All U.S. Volkswagen Dealers, General Managers and Sales Managers
Re: Diesel Product Offerings
During the past several weeks there have been a number of articles in the press regarding the short and long term status of Volkswagen’s diesel product offerings in the United States. While most of the articles have been accurate, there have been some inconsistencies in the information reported. The purpose of this letter is to provide you with the latest position regarding diesel product offerings from Volkswagen in the United States.
The Volkswagen of America position on Diesel, both present and future: Volkswagen intends to defend its leadership in bringing efficient, durable, environmentally friendly and fun to drive diesel powered vehicles to the United States automotive market. For 2006, we currently offer the New Beetle sedan and Jetta with an optional TDI diesel engine in 45 states where this is permitted. The non-applicable states are California, Maine, Massachusetts, New York and Vermont. Later this year we will reintroduce the 2006 Touareg V10 TDI with a 50-state certification. The Touareg TDI will be the first light duty diesel in the U.S. to include a particulate filter. For the 2007 model year, the Touareg V10 TDI will be 45-state certified. As you are surely aware, EPA emission standards are becoming more stringent in calendar year 2007.
As a consequence, tightening standards have caused DaimlerChrysler to suspend production of the Jeep Liberty CRD, our closest price point diesel competitor. However, in anticipation of continued demand for the Jetta TDI, we have increased TDI production and expect to carryover 9,000 to 10,000 MY2006 Special Edition models for sale into calendar year 2007.
Long time dealers might remember that diesel importation to the USA was suspended in 1987-1988, due to diminished sales. Because of loyal customer demand, a diesel engine option was re-launched for 1989 with great success.
Volkswagen remains strongly committed to the clean diesel market in the United States. Forty percent (40%) of Volkswagen’s global volume is in diesel-powered vehicles, so you can be certain that all of our corporate engineering expertise is focused on meeting the forthcoming standards efficiently and effectively. Volkswagen is making a significant change in its diesel powerplants by discontinuing the Pumpe Düse fuel injection system and adopting common rail technology. This will help to provide greater performance and address the changing diesel emission regulatory structure here in the U.S.
In calendar year 2008, Volkswagen will launch a Jetta with the latest diesel technology, featuring common rail fuel supply with particulate filtration and NOx control. We plan to offer this new diesel technology across a broader model range that will be 50-state certified.When the 2008 technology is introduced, we expect that our diesel customers will be able to take advantage of federal consumer tax credits similar in scope to those available for hybrids. Until then, we believe that our 2007 line-up, including the launches of highly desirable models such as Rabbit, Eos, GTI 4-door, Jetta Wagon, and R32 combined with continued demand for our fuel efficient 2.0T, 2.5L and 3.6L gasoline engines will help bridge the gap resulting from the reduced TDI availability until 2008.
Please feel free to share this information with all of your customer-contact personnel and your customers. OK. So this means that there will only be a Jetta TDI for 2008, and it confirms the Jetta Wagon and that more cars will be diesel-powered in the near future. Also, the supply chain of diesels will be available for a short time. We will eventually run out, but at least we will have some assistance. Remember, that's 10,000 nationwide. that runs out fast.
Its not that I am concerned about anything. It was just an observation. The only point I was really trying to make is that a car can be an 07 with a production date of 06. No reason to get carried away with it. The car is an 06 but I bet the title says 07 because of the production date.
Matthew_S
Veteran Member
A cars model year will be either the year of production or the following year. For example a car built in 2002 will be either a 2002 MY or a 2003 MY but will not be a 2001. There may be rare exceptions to this but I've never seen it. As a general rule cars built after August are for the following model year but manufacturers deviate from this all the time so it cannot be relied upon.
dieseldorf
Top Post Dawg
KROUT said:
It can't, it doesn't. The VIN dictates the model year and that's what's on the title. You've already confirmed this here:
What is significance of the 10th character?KROUT said:
Dunno513
Veteran Member
For those looking for answers look here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_year#_note-0
Model year
The term “model year”, with reference to any specific calendar year, means a manufacturer’s annual production period (as determined by the EPA Administrator) which includes January 1 of such calendar year. If a manufacturer has no annual production period, the term “model year” means the calendar year.
As for this thread, I feel bad for the horse...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model_year#_note-0
Model year
The term “model year”, with reference to any specific calendar year, means a manufacturer’s annual production period (as determined by the EPA Administrator) which includes January 1 of such calendar year. If a manufacturer has no annual production period, the term “model year” means the calendar year.
As for this thread, I feel bad for the horse...
Last edited:
PlaneCrazy
Top Post Dawg
If you look at a late-production TDI you will notice some differences, just as an early-production '07 Passat wagon has differences compared to a current-production '07 wagon. I know because I looked at both (and ended up with the wagon, famille oblige which actually means madame oblige; actually I don't mind, apart from the fuel economy a 6-speed manual 2.0T wagon is a nicer car than a Jetta TDI, but I digress). Notably, late-production cars of both models have a newer-style radio with brushed aluminium look buttons. They are labelled as MP3 players as well, not sure if the older radios did, but definitely the look is different.
I also saw my first TDI Special Edition last week as I was taking delivery of our new wagon, and it was in a new colour, a nice acqua blue that doesn't even show yet on the vw.ca website (which is a particularly lame website IMHO).
I also saw my first TDI Special Edition last week as I was taking delivery of our new wagon, and it was in a new colour, a nice acqua blue that doesn't even show yet on the vw.ca website (which is a particularly lame website IMHO).
40X40
Experienced
There are NO USA version 2007 TDI Jettas.
2006.5 Jetta TDIs for the USA market were made alongside 2007 GAS
Jettas. Some had the wrong (07) owners manuals.
The VIN # is the key and the one piece if data that trumps all others
officially. Your Taxing entity, Insurance co, Bank, etc. will look at the
VIN # to set their respective rates. It really doesn't matter what the
title says regarding model year.... The vin# decodes to the proper year.
A car title is a state thing and a VIN # is a federal thing....
BTW, the vin# will decode as a 06 not a 06.5.... I think. You will have to
look the car over for other clues or check the production date to see if
you have a 06 or 06.5. The latest should have a 'Diesel Edition' badge
on the fender.
The reason for all the weirdness here is Emission Compliance... The PD
engine doesn't meet the EPA reqs' for 2007 model year cars, but they
were allowed to build more 06 models to be sold as an interim solution
while we wait for the 08 common rail cars to show up. (skipping 07)
Yes, cars are made in the calendar year before and during the year
they are sold..... But I don't think they can be made in a later year..
(IE you can't make a 06 in 08.... but you can make an 07 iin 06..)
I think I remember Caroll Shelby had a few old VIN#s and FRAMES for
1960 something Shelby Cobras that he finally got around to assembling
in the early 2000s.... I dodgy thing to do, but he did it with one or two
cars. (can someone confirm this? might just be a car magazine legend)
Confused? Then my job here is done!!
Bill
2006.5 Jetta TDIs for the USA market were made alongside 2007 GAS
Jettas. Some had the wrong (07) owners manuals.
The VIN # is the key and the one piece if data that trumps all others
officially. Your Taxing entity, Insurance co, Bank, etc. will look at the
VIN # to set their respective rates. It really doesn't matter what the
title says regarding model year.... The vin# decodes to the proper year.
A car title is a state thing and a VIN # is a federal thing....
BTW, the vin# will decode as a 06 not a 06.5.... I think. You will have to
look the car over for other clues or check the production date to see if
you have a 06 or 06.5. The latest should have a 'Diesel Edition' badge
on the fender.
The reason for all the weirdness here is Emission Compliance... The PD
engine doesn't meet the EPA reqs' for 2007 model year cars, but they
were allowed to build more 06 models to be sold as an interim solution
while we wait for the 08 common rail cars to show up. (skipping 07)
Yes, cars are made in the calendar year before and during the year
they are sold..... But I don't think they can be made in a later year..
(IE you can't make a 06 in 08.... but you can make an 07 iin 06..)
I think I remember Caroll Shelby had a few old VIN#s and FRAMES for
1960 something Shelby Cobras that he finally got around to assembling
in the early 2000s.... I dodgy thing to do, but he did it with one or two
cars. (can someone confirm this? might just be a car magazine legend)
Confused? Then my job here is done!!
Bill
rotarykid
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2003
- TDI
- 1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
For the most part what you ask is correct normally that on July 30 is being the normal model change over month for model year .KROUT said:
But because of the stricter lite duty diesel emissions begining 1/01/07 VW produced 06 TDIs ( 06 TDI Emission spec cars , Beetle & Jetta models) until the last moment of 2006 . They will be sold well into 2007 as long as they last in the US & Canada .
These cars are built with 2007 options & body but have 06 Vins & specced out as 2006 model year cars .
PlaneCrazy
Top Post Dawg
My dealer says that by May, he expects that the last of the 2006 TDIs will be gone, or the selection will be down to a precious few to be found in some backwaters. This is hardly tiding us over until 2008 especially since the '08s won't come until late spring '08.
rotarykid
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2003
- TDI
- 1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
I talked to a VW rep last fall that I've known for a while that told me they had a PD engine tdi that could pass 45 states spec . The problem is the extra cost ($$ & mpgs) involved with the passing of 07 diesel emissions . I was told that VW really didn't believe the hit in mpgs & the extra production cost could recovered of passing 07 emissions , so they weren't planning on bringing any in to the US .PlaneCrazy said:
I was told that a 07 TDI-PD Jetta with extra emissions & with a mpg hit has been achieved . It had preliminarily passed 07 45 state emissions spec early last year . That was when VW came up with the plan to extend 06 production to the end of last year .
So it can be done , VW could produce a 45 state US spec TDI-PD for 07 if they really wanted to .
If comes down to the fact that only if all the extra built 06 diesel editions are sold by very early in the first few days of 2007 in the US is there any chance of ever seeing a very few 07 Jetta TDI-PDs .
Canadians might see a few late 07 TDI-PDs if the demand significantly outstrips supplies of 06 Diesel Editions but I wouldn't hold my breath .
PlaneCrazy
Top Post Dawg
Indeed I wouldn't hold my breath, in Canada too. No doubt that production capacity of TDIs has since been diverted to other markets. It would not be easy to swing things back to N. America for a few extra months. Most likely we will have a 12 month or so TDI drought, and used ones will be in very high demand with pricing overinflated to the point of not being worth it.
I leased my new 2.0T Passat...hopefully when the lease has expired there will be TDIs again. That said, the 2.0T is a wonderful engine except for the fuel consumption, although our -20C weather makes it hard to get a real feel for what it is capable of, consumption-wise.
I leased my new 2.0T Passat...hopefully when the lease has expired there will be TDIs again. That said, the 2.0T is a wonderful engine except for the fuel consumption, although our -20C weather makes it hard to get a real feel for what it is capable of, consumption-wise.
40X40
Experienced
Not sure precisely what an 'exaust mailfunction light' is.noairbag said:
See your dealer, it is under warranty.
Bill
kcfoxie
Veteran Member
I have one of the last of the last 2006 Special Editions. I was just talking to a coworker who has a 2006 PKG TDI. She has climate control, and she said that greatly impacts her mileage. Whereas mine has standard A/C controls but we both have the MFD (multifunction display) and the MFSW (multifunction steering wheel). I was asking her what her mileage was and she said about 40 in town and 50 on the highway, and she's at 7,700 miles.. but she said she broke it in wrong. We also agreed that the 2006's clutch is kind of picky, it definetly does not drive like my old 2002 2.0L beetle (I've only stalled the car like fives times however). Anyway, I don't know if all 06s came with a 115v (US) 2-prong power outlet behind the center armrest, just under the rear A/C vents.. but mine does. The only way I've been able to tell a "last of the 06" TDIs has been the special chrome "DIESEL" badge that's stuck on either side of the front fenders on the car. I'm optimistic about my mileage based on what her car is getting... I'm only seeing 38mpg right now... but i'm not even at 1200 miles yet. My 10th digit is a 6, and I'm glad because in NC 2007+ Diesels are subject to ODBII diagnostics at $30/inspection. 2006-older models get a $9 safety inspection.
rotarykid
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2003
- TDI
- 1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
You got a link to that change in NC inspection rules ???kcfoxie said:
kcfoxie
Veteran Member
I don't have anything localized, I can find the thread where it was mentioned that 2007+ ULSD Diesel engines were going to be required to pass ODBII emissions testing par federal law. It was on newbeetle.org where I read it, so I don't know how true it is -- I'll post that link up when I find it (adding it to the list of things to do tonight).
kcfoxie
Veteran Member
Ok, I haven't looked up the thread but I may had mis-read it. 1997 and later Diesels are OBD-II Compliant... they could be subject to OBD testing, but apparently it is up to the state. So, NC could require it but may chose not to (given the UPS hub in Greensboro... they probably won't require it).
bigEZ
Veteran Member
it is 2007, and i had my inspection done in january on my '05, and no emissions test. everything before 2007 is exempt from emissions, so there's no reason to ever hook us up to obd 2 port. i'll try to find out what the '07 nc rules will be.kcfoxie said:
kcfoxie
Veteran Member
Please do post it when you find out. I'm sure that pre-07 vehicles would be exempted, like pre-96 vehicles are exempted (I love that both my cars -- 89 Golf GL and my 06 Jetta TDI -- are $9 inspection vehicles). The EPA writeup I saw basically said that states can OBD any 97+ Diesel if they chose, but as I said before I'm sure that the trucking/shipping and other industries ask them nicely to not require a yearly inspection.
bigEZ
Veteran Member
this is the only info i could find on the nc dot website:
http://www.ncdot.org/dmv/vehicle_services/emissioninspection/requirements.html
doesn't even mention 2007 in relation to diesel.
http://www.ncdot.org/dmv/vehicle_services/emissioninspection/requirements.html
doesn't even mention 2007 in relation to diesel.
rotarykid
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2003
- TDI
- 1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
Then in NC all diesels are still exempt from E-testsbigEZ said:
Scott_DeWitt
Vendor
Nope the manufacturer determines the "Year" of the vehicle, not when it was put into service. BMW was notorious in the 80's for making cars who's model years were several years into the future, ie 87 model car made in late 85..KROUT said:
Typically vehicles made in October is the next years model, but not always the case.
bigEZ
Veteran Member
as far as i've been able to find out. but then again, i wouldn't put any faith in the nc dot to keep an up-to-date website. they can't even fix the roads.rotarykid said:Then in NC all diesels are still exempt from E-tests
Matt-98AHU
Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
If the emissions info/catalyst sticker hasn't been stripped off, that will also tell you the model year of the vehicle.
It goes something along the lines of: "This vehicle conforms to the emissions standards for the model year 2006..." Ignore when it was produced. There are some general rules out there people go by with the production date, but it by no means a definitive way of telling the model year. A lot of cars produced in September of a particular calendar year tend to be cars of the next model year. Not all by any means!
I toured Ford's Rouge plant a couple years ago and I was told they generally use most of July for retooling the plant for the next model year vehicles...
It goes something along the lines of: "This vehicle conforms to the emissions standards for the model year 2006..." Ignore when it was produced. There are some general rules out there people go by with the production date, but it by no means a definitive way of telling the model year. A lot of cars produced in September of a particular calendar year tend to be cars of the next model year. Not all by any means!
I toured Ford's Rouge plant a couple years ago and I was told they generally use most of July for retooling the plant for the next model year vehicles...