TDIClub Forums

TDIClub Forums (http://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php)
-   TDI (Diesel) Emissions (http://forums.tdiclub.com/forumdisplay.php?f=29)
-   -   July changes for California smog checks (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=498785)

mejpassat May 4th, 2019 17:14

July changes for California smog checks
 
So it is my understanding that starting July 1 of this year California is going to be able to detect any ECU flashes beyond the factory flashes and if found will deny registration.
They say it is due to so many cars/trucks doing the tuner flashes.
From what I understand this test will detect the "portable" ECU flashes that will be detectable even if the user goes back to the stock tune.
If any one has any info or comments on this, would like to hear some input.
And here I was thinking of getting a tune.:(

rotarykid May 4th, 2019 18:32

I call bs on carb being able to legally do that...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mejpassat (Post 5505574)
So it is my understanding that starting July 1 of this year California is going to be able to detect any ECU flashes beyond the factory flashes and if found will deny registration.
They say it is due to so many cars/trucks doing the tuner flashes.
From what I understand this test will detect the "portable" ECU flashes that will be detectable even if the user goes back to the stock tune.
If any one has any info or comments on this, would like to hear some input.
And here I was thinking of getting a tune.:(


although most of us here are aware that carb is known for being a dishonest group with a weed up their collected arses about diesel anything, I have a hard time believing they could get away with denying registration if the car/truck ecu tested as within spec in a test at the time of the ecu test if the vehicle had been driven long enough for the ecu to test as ready.....

....If the ashats that run carb want to try this kind of crap you could always claim they are detecting your previous for off road only tune, used while in off-road conditions only that is no longer in place.....

...I don't believe a judge/court would allow them to refuse to register any vehicle that at the time of the test meets all requirements, it is none of their business what tune might have been on the vehicle at an earlier time....

Lightflyer1 May 4th, 2019 20:43

But it will cost big money to fight it, which they count on for you to comply or give up. Assuming it is true.

tdi54 May 4th, 2019 23:19

mejspassat, any official documentation or info regarding the carb being able to detect (during the smog check) if the ecu had been flashed before?

mejpassat May 12th, 2019 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdi54 (Post 5505629)
mejspassat, any official documentation or info regarding the carb being able to detect (during the smog check) if the ecu had been flashed before?

No, All of this information is coming from articles on changes to carb rules and the smog guy I've been taking all my cars to for years.
One of the comments made from non Cali cars needs to be addressed. On all newer cars there is no tailpipe test(which can't be done on our cars. Only registers and now, tracking software changes. That is how I'm understanding all of the new changes.

n1das May 13th, 2019 20:32

The number of times the ECU has been reflashed can be viewed with VCDS if you know what to look for. There is a non-resettable counter that increments by one when the ECU is reflashed via OBD-II. It documents the number of reflash attempts. CARB can see this information via OBD-II. If the counter value is greater than zero, that means the ECU has been reflashed via OBD-II either by VW or by a tuner.

When I had the ECU tuned in my 05 PD Jetta Wagen TDI back in 2005, the processor chip was flashed the way it was done at the factory so it isn't done via OBD-II and the non-resettable counter value remains at 0. It requires removing the ECU from the car and disassembling it and connecting to a port used for development but is depopulated for production.

mejpassat May 13th, 2019 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by n1das (Post 5508097)
The number of times the ECU has been reflashed can be viewed with VCDS if you know what to look for. There is a non-resettable counter that increments by one when the ECU is reflashed via OBD-II. It documents the number of reflash attempts. CARB can see this information via OBD-II. If the counter value is greater than zero, that means the ECU has been reflashed via OBD-II either by VW or by a tuner.

When I had the ECU tuned in my 05 PD Jetta Wagen TDI back in 2005, the processor chip was flashed the way it was done at the factory so it isn't done via OBD-II and the non-resettable counter value remains at 0. It requires removing the ECU from the car and disassembling it and connecting to a port used for development but is depopulated for production.

I'm sure that CARB will know how many re-flashes are supposed to be on our fixed vehicles.
:confused:

kwong7 May 13th, 2019 22:51

I ran into a smog check issue two years ago. The smog check technician told me that all the monitors were not "ready" and that if I had a modified ECM program that the car would not pass. Luckily I had my original stock ECM sitting on my parts shelf (for 15 years). I reinstalled the stock ECM, passed my smog check, and reinstalled my flashed Rocketchip ECM. I had a little trouble and had to install/reinstall many times to get make sure all the pins lined up.

Fast-forward to today and my brother-in-law tells me Ca has upped it's testing procedures for ECU testing. He said flashed ECUs will not pass and that 150 miles and 15 start-cycles with a recently swapped ECU are needed before it can pass. I'll be swapping my stock ECM in again and will drive it around for a week before testing.

I'm glad my two BEVs will never need smog testing...it's becoming a PITA.

IndigoBlueWagon May 14th, 2019 04:29

I'm surprised (or maybe not) that CA is going after such old cars. We have ECU checking on our cars here in Massachusetts, but after 15 years it's safety only. That includes most of my cars. :-)

showdown 42 May 14th, 2019 08:25

Move to FL no emissions testing on any cars regardless of age. Land of the Free home of the brave. Population is growing by almost 5% each yr I wonder why. My old state of CT is losing population at an alarming rate and I know why LOL.

n1das May 14th, 2019 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwong7 (Post 5508114)
I ran into a smog check issue two years ago. The smog check technician told me that all the monitors were not "ready" and that if I had a modified ECM program that the car would not pass. Luckily I had my original stock ECM sitting on my parts shelf (for 15 years). I reinstalled the stock ECM, passed my smog check, and reinstalled my flashed Rocketchip ECM. I had a little trouble and had to install/reinstall many times to get make sure all the pins lined up.

Keeping a spare bone stock ECU on hand to swap in/out might be the most practical solution for tuned TDIs provided the car has just a tune and no hardware mods that would throw codes with stock ECU programming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mejpassat (Post 5505574)
So it is my understanding that starting July 1 of this year California is going to be able to detect any ECU flashes beyond the factory flashes and if found will deny registration.
They say it is due to so many cars/trucks doing the tuner flashes.
From what I understand this test will detect the "portable" ECU flashes that will be detectable even if the user goes back to the stock tune.
If any one has any info or comments on this, would like to hear some input.
And here I was thinking of getting a tune.:(

While CARB is able to see the number of reflash attempts (a non-resettable counter viewable with VCDS), I don't think they will be able to tell from that alone whether a reflash was done by VW or by a tuner. I suspect CARB will also look for other identifying information about the tune. The information is all there if you know what to look for. The tuners need to keep all viewable information looking exactly like a VW factory tune. Beyond that, the only other way to tell if a car has been tuned is by driving the car or running on a dyno and knowing exactly what live data to look at.

n1das May 14th, 2019 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by mejpassat (Post 5508102)
I'm sure that CARB will know how many re-flashes are supposed to be on our fixed vehicles.
:confused:

Yeah, and if a reflash by VW failed during the flash and is restarted, the non-resettable counter documenting the number of flash attempts still increments by one. :(

IndigoBlueWagon May 14th, 2019 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by showdown 42 (Post 5508182)
Move to FL no emissions testing on any cars regardless of age. Land of the Free home of the brave. Population is growing by almost 5% each yr I wonder why. My old state of CT is losing population at an alarming rate and I know why LOL.

Only problem is...then you're in Florida. :D And for what it's worth, CT population is either flat or growing slowly. Not declining at any significant (or even measurable over time) rate.

Rob Mayercik May 14th, 2019 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by n1das (Post 5508206)
Yeah, and if a reflash by VW failed during the flash and is restarted, the non-resettable counter documenting the number of flash attempts still increments by one. :(

This.

How can CARB know whether the flash count changed because of a "tune" or a fumble-fingered dealer tech screwing it up three times while doing a TSB or recall?

Outside of actually dumping the ECU's memory and comparing it to known images of OEM SW (which I'm sure would probably not stand up to a legal challenge, and there's no way on this Earth that the manufacturers are going to let some Government agency store copies of their very expensive IP), I don't get this - most cars out there probably have anywhere from 3 to a dozen different ECU revs out "in the wild", depending on the vehicle in general and the service history in specific.

Lightflyer1 May 14th, 2019 12:54

Being that they have the power, I would imagine they can force the mfg to divulge what ever information is needed to make this determination. Manufacturers may even help and like this, as it will tell them up front for many cars, which ones they can deny warranty work on without ever touching the car themselves.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:40.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017

Page generated in 0.09809 seconds with 8 queries
[Output: 22.86 Kb. compressed to 21.86 Kb. by saving 1.00 Kb. (4.39%)]